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COVID restrictions gone........................

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Robo42, Feb 22, 2022.

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  1. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    Once again we seem to be focusing merely on deaths from covid. It's important not to forget the long term after effects of having had covid, not just with long covid, but also an increase in conditions such as T1 and T2 diabetes.
     
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  2. BrianDoc

    BrianDoc Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Jim Lahey if you don’t think vaccines have saved lives there really isn’t much point in you and I discussing this any further, stay safe.
     
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  3. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    That is not what I said. I said there’s no way to ever know if they have made a material difference or by how much. There’s an assumption that they have saved millions lives but I’m yet to see any data that convinces me of this. In fact some data paints a pretty dubious picture overall, but I won’t go into it here. Firstly because I will get censored, but also because this thread isn’t about vaccines.
     
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  4. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    There is an independent organisation on YouTube channel, that has a rolling count of the statistics given on all three determinants of the pandemic, deaths, hospilisations and positive infections for every country in the world!
    It is by any standard, statistical and reliant on information given!
    Indeed on another channel, the numbers of those immunized and recovered are given except for one country, the U.K.!

    Of course, it could never be totally accurate, but it does give the viewer the horror of the numbers of deaths across the world, associated to covid!
    The only way, the question agreed to get the stats is very important to the answer!
    If you ask a different question and it is loaded! The answer will be very different! As was seen by the freedom of information request, a couple of weeks ago.
    Many of those who died in the first wave were over sixty and had underlying conditions, such as diabetes, those were not included in the FOI question! So do we discount those, who may have been members on here to ignore them as dying earlier because of covid?

    Covid is not going away, but having no restrictions and no testing and no support and no way of knowing what the virus is doing is just reckless and negligent!

    And I will say it again, the reason for the policy of this government decisions is money!
    Only money! Disregard everything else! It's money! Big money!
     
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  5. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Until we have an inquest, and get down to the nitty gritty of and has happened since the beginning of 2020!
    But as has been said, not everyone will get immunisation from any jab! Not everyone will stop being a carrier, not the superspreaders, not the idiots we have in our community! Look at the plague in football hooliganism!
    Hillsborough should have been enough to put a stop to it, but the number of police officers required every game is really high? Being a teenager is pushing boundaries, so how you are going to stop raves and parties?

    We have to protect those who are susceptible!
     
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  6. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The 2,000 you mention are people who died shortly after having the vaccine, not surprising as the vaccine was proritised for the very old and vulnerable. The number who died because of a reaction to the vaccine in the whole of the UK is about 10.
     
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  7. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    Highly dubious. It’s been reported that only ten percent of all deaths and injuries are even logged by the system, but if we assume that’s false and take your data as fact, that doesn’t make it ok in the context of the rest of my comment which you’ve redacted.
     
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  8. BrianDoc

    BrianDoc Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Jim Lahey imay be reading you wrong, do you consider yourself to be an anti vaxer ? You seem to be confident in your highly disputed numbers of those who have died as a result of receiving a vaccine, but are apparently unable to determine if vaccines have saved any lives .....
     
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  9. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    I’m pro choice and pro informed consent. There is no long term safety data which, for me, means there is no informed consent. Anyone who claims to have safety data also has a time machine. My personal risk assessment points to the injection posing a greater potential risk to me than the virus. I may be wrong but that is my cross to bear and I will live or die with the consequences.

    I’m aware that some folk may counter with the ‘but it’s to protect others’ mantra, but never before in history has a medication only worked if someone else takes it, so I roundly reject that idea. I encourage people to make their own choices and I will make mine. If that makes me an “anti-vaxxer” in the minds of some then I won’t lose any sleep over it :cool:

    ETA: @BrianDoc vis-à-vis your main point that I redacted from the quote - one thing has nothing to do with the other. There are official sources which can be used to analyse vaccine injury and death. Contrarily, if a vaccinated person survives it is simply impossible to claim that they would otherwise have died.
     
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    #69 Member496333, Feb 23, 2022 at 2:35 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2022
  10. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    where is that rate coming from please? Officially it is less than 1% I’ve read. In which case your numbers are way off. And a false positive is annoying/problematic for one person maybe one family. A false negative (between 40 and 60% in real world usage rather than experts in labs) impacts a huge amount more people that are then exposed to this falsely reassured person.
    Somewhat moot now anyway as so few will be testing going forward anyway.
     
  11. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    so nothing to do with the measures in place to prevent the spread of the more transmissible covid has also reduced the spread of the less easily caught flu?


    Links to these claims please so we can make our own assessment of the claims/fact checks rather than rely on your summary
     
  12. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    Can’t recall where I read 3% but if we assume 1% that’s still 10,000 false positives per day. The actual number probably isn’t as important as the fact that the media like to pretend it doesn’t exist at all. False positives have had an impact on the trajectory of the pandemic response. Resulting in loss of business, family and literal life. It’s not trivial.
     
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  13. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    Possibly. But we can never know for sure.

    ETA: @HSSS I am not going to get into a game of link tennis. People either agree or they don’t. The information is freely available to everyone.
     
  14. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Source please?

    Or is this reported and claimed ‘kills’ yet to be investigated and potentially either confirmed or quite clearly unrelated.
     
  15. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    Please see the edit in post #73
     
  16. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    As all context has since been stripped from my early comments regarding vaccine injury, I will just come back to this briefly and hopefully draw a line under it before this all goes way off-topic. Please see the bolded parts of the quote.

    My only point was that since there most definitely is a risk, no matter how small, it is ethically wrong, not to mention selfish, to shame everyone else into taking part. And if "shame" sounds like hyperbole, try living a day in the shoes of someone who has chosen not to be injected. It's a constant barrage of pressure from all sides.
     
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  17. Brava210

    Brava210 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Weird, but whatever
     
  18. StewM

    StewM Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot of misleading information out there that makes wild claims* similar to the ones you're making, citing VAERS and the Yellow Card System. This has been disproven by doctors and fact checkers. The statistics your citing are probably in this bucket, but if you'd be willing to provide your source we could have more open discussion about the claims you're making.

    *Nutshell sum up of complex analysis a cause and effect relationship was asserted where none in fact could be proven to any satisfactory level.
     
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  19. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    No it’s ok. We’ve been over this already. I can’t hope to compete with doctors and fact checkers :shifty:

    As I have said, we should all make our own choices based on our research and personal circumstances.
     
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  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    To what end exactly would this "misinformation" be for.

    Who benefits from it?

    There are many widely respected doctors and scientists saying that the experimental mRNA product is not necessarily harmless.

    And of course who is funding the "fact checkers"?
     
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