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Crazy Crazy Advice

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by murdo7, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. murdo7

    murdo7 · Newbie

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    I was diagnosed as ?diabetic two years ago and told to lose some weight. Blood tests were taken once every 6 months to see how i was doing. I never got any feed back on the results, so thought i was ok. No symptoms of thirst or going to the toilet frequently.
    I moved house and signed up with a new Doctor. At the initial screening he took bloods for the usual stuff including HbA1c - The results came back and it was 9.2 so he signed me up for a return visit to see the diabetic team. At this time i bought myself a blood sugar meter and started testing myself - my readings were 14 - 17 (UK) So i then embarked on some internet research - started on a carb controlled diet, increased my exercise and started eliminating foods that spiked my blood sugar. The usual culprits came up - bread rice pasta sugar fruit and coffee. I eliminated these and replaced them with other foods (i know i need a balanced intake of fat protein vitamins and various nutrients). So today ( two months after the initial hbA1c test) I arrived at the diabetic clinic to meet the team. Now i must tell you that in the interim i have lost one stone (that’s 14 pounds / 6.36 kilos) reduced my blood readings to an average of 3 to 7 except for the occasional spike to around 9 when i take a new "bad" food.
    The dietitian told me to stop testing my blood as i might become obsessed about it and it was enough to have the 6 monthly Hba1c. I asked about the advice she was giving me with relation to eating more potatoes bread and rice - and (fruit 3 a day) and occasional fried fish and chips and puddings. She told me that the advice was to have this "balanced diet" and to perhaps put me on Metformin if i was not managing to keep my blood sugar in check. I tried to argue that a low carbohydrate was keeping my blood sugar in check, was helping me to loose weight and seemed to be dealing with my diabetes quite well without resorting to Metformin or any other drugs.
    I am now totally confused.....
    The doctor took a look at my hbA1c and said he was going to prescribe Metformin on a small dose and increasing to a therapeutic dose over the next few weeks. I asked him if he had received my hbA1c from my last Doctor - he looked them up on the computer and what the graph showed was an increase in the levels of 2 years ago from 7 to 10 and a reduction to 9.2 on the last one - I suggested that as i had not been given any indication there was a problem and as it had come down without any intervention, either by diet or medication and that as of the last reading, when i was made aware of the problem, perhaps we should take a look at my hbA1c in another month to see if my dietary intervention had had any effect before going on to meds. - He was unwilling to contemplate this. So a small debate ensued..... i pointed out my results over the last two months of keeping my daily results in the 3 to 7 range, he told me that they did not recommend daily testing in type2, just 6 monthly hbA1c's and that i was obsessing about the daily testing, could do damage to my fingers which could result in neuropathy and infection due to pricking my self so often. He eventually agreed to review the hba1c in a month’s time. But in the meantime i was to stop testing my bloods, comply with the dietitians recommendations regarding my diet and see him a week after the blood test to review my going on Metformin.
    Now i am really confused and in a quandary.

    Problem is... What do i do - continue carbing or go on to the "Diet" as advised by the Dietition and Doctor. .... fruit juice and porridge for breakfast, and for lunch soup (lentil or pea and ham) with two slices of bread and low fat yoghurt or fruit juce. Pasta, rice or potatoes with lean meat and veg + fruit fresh or tinned for dinner. Snacks of oatcake, plain biscuit, cracker or fruit. tea, coffee, diet fizzy drinks, sugar free diluting juice or water.
    Help this confused new diabetic.
     
  2. diabetesmum

    diabetesmum Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    I am not a Type 2 (mum to 2 Type 1's), but I know enough from reading this forum for many months that you have done brilliantly well to do what you have done. I'm sure a number of experienced Type 2's will be along shortly to advise you, and I reckon most of them will advise you to carry on testing and restricting your carbs, never mind what the Dr's/nurses say. Have a read around and you will find plenty of posts about Type 2's testing regularly and counting carbs. As for problems from finger pricking - what rubbish - my 2 girls test 6 - 8 times a day, and have had no prob's. Anyway if you keep your blood glucose in the 4 - 7 range you almost certainly won't get neuropathy I wouldn't think so it's a non-issue.
    BW
    Sue
     
  3. John aka Wallycorker

    John aka Wallycorker · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Murdo7,

    You know what to do!

    You have already worked out the way forward for you. In my view, once someone has learnt that lesson they are not going to accept to run with elevated blood glucoes levels. Well done!

    Best wishes - John
     
  4. raydavies

    raydavies · Well-Known Member

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    Well done, you are on the right track.

    I know what it feels like to fly in the face of professional advice, you feel a little uncertain, but as someone said on another post it's your health and body.

    I have two words for that doctor - to do with sex and travel- but you'd better not say them!

    It's a strange world.

    Ray
     
  5. fergus

    fergus Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think the title of your thread really says it all murdo7.
    In my experience, following the advice you've been given will undoubtedly mean you maintain persistently high blood sugars, become dependent on oral medications and progress down the route well trodden by so many diabetics before you.
    Alternatively, you could go in the entirely opposite direction, towards normal blood glucose, possibly zero medication, weight loss (if necessary) and improved lipids. As you know, that means ditching the starch along with a lot of the medical advice you've been given.
    Tough call! :roll:

    All the best,

    fergus
     
  6. kateincornwall

    kateincornwall Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Murdo , I`m T2 , I was in the Pre Diabetes stage for about three years prior to being diagnosed . The advice I received , and followed when in the pre Diabetes stage led me , I am convinced , to becoming Diabetic . I was told to eat plenty of starchy carbs, which I did because at that stage , I had no one to turn to and put my trust in my Doctor . Once diagnosed with Diabetes , I began to realise that the advice given by the NHS hadnt done me any favours and so began to read, read and more read !! Since early December , I have managed to lower my BG , lower my cholesterol and also my BP and its all down to low carbing . My Doc was sceptical , until she saw my results !
     
  7. Dillinger

    Dillinger Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    It's difficult to ignore clinical advice; I've long thought that statins are suspect but when I sat before my GP and said I'm not taking them and was told calmly and clearly that that would mean it would be more likely that I had a heart attack it was difficult to hold my convictions. A bit of re-reading and support from fellow diabetics has helped me to withstand that advice however.

    Similarly when your GP and the dietician tell you with conviction to follow all the traditional advice it's hard not to go along with it; but your blood glucose monitor doesn't lie; you know you're doing the right thing and I've heard of consultant endocrinologists who think the same but as yet the advice hasn't changed.

    Ignore the traditional advice and keep doing what you're doing.

    All the best

    Dillinger
     
  8. hanadr

    hanadr · Expert

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    Murdo 7
    Go with what works for you.
    You are the one with the metabolic error, Not them. We've all come across this nonsense in our time. IGNORE IT. It's just crazy as you said.
    Ask them for evidence to back up what they are telling you. They are meant to be scientists, so how about them acting like it?
    Hana
    Ps you may meet some HCPs with commonsense in time.
     
  9. John aka Wallycorker

    John aka Wallycorker · Well-Known Member

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    Mine too Kate! Mine too! Keep on track!

    Best wishes - John
     
  10. John aka Wallycorker

    John aka Wallycorker · Well-Known Member

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    Exactly Dillinger!

    It's not just advice like it might be for heart disease and cancer as to what might be happening some time in the future. With testing of blood glucose levels, we can see exactly what is happening at the time of testing by the readings shown on our meters.

    Best wishes - John
     
  11. Synonym

    Synonym · Well-Known Member

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    Hello Murdo7 :)

    May I suggest that you ask for a referral to an endocrinologist if your doctor persists in the advice he is giving since you have already proved it not to be effective in managing your condition. You do stand a chance of getting another closed mind but somehow I doubt it since they specialise in the condition and will be seeing diabetes patients every day.

    I have opted to continue being cared for by the hospital as I have no confidence in my local GP surgery. The hospital people are happy for me to self test, cut my carbs and control by diet and exercise and are very supportive!

    You are doing the best thing for your health and your body and have no interest in adding to statistics so carry on doing what you know is best. 8)
     
  12. IanD

    IanD Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Welcome, Murdo, you are bringing very sensible thoughts.

    From the X-PERT course thread (edited.)

    A problem with most professionals - including those running diabetes courses - is that they are not diabetics - all their knowledge & experience is second hand. Eat starchy carbs is a useless mantra.

    I was able to contribute from the first hand experience of using the educational material - both sound & questionable - over 10 years, & suffering the resultant predicted complications after 8 years, & then benefiting from the experience of others - on this forum - to tackle those complications & reverse them by drastically reducing carbs from my diet.

    I have gone from crippled with neuropathy to playing club tennis again - just by carb reduction. Now my Dr & dietitian approve my diet - they are prepared to learn from a successful diabetes patient. It was interesting to see the dietitian running the course recommend the minimum carb consumption on her 'diet plate.' 5 portions rather than 14! I go for less.

    THE EXPERIENCE OF OTHERS IS VERY VALUABLE - THAT IS WHAT MAKES THIS FORUM SPECIAL.
     
  13. cocacola

    cocacola Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Firstly well done on the weight loss :D t seems to me that the diet that the dietician has recommended is a healthy eating diet for the average Joe Bloggs not for a diabetic.
    Do what works for you :mrgreen:
     
  14. debs_001

    debs_001 · Newbie

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    I was diagnosed type 2 in October 2008 with a HbA1c of 13.9 - I hadn't had any symptoms at all. Within 2 weeks I had brought that down to 10.4. My GP offered no advice or help whatsoever. I was immediately put on 3 x500g metformin. I did ask that I might try to bring my levels down through diet and exercise (yes I was overweight) but was told not to be stupid.

    I got onto the internet to find as much information as I could and discovered this site and read and read and read. Here I am - 18 months on, 3st lighter and off metformin completely and my last HbA1c in January was 5.8. Am I happy or what????

    The last GP I saw in January, who was a locum, told me stop testing as I would become obsessed and it would do more harm than good! I just told him that I had not been testing (and would continue to do so) I would not have lost the weight, lowered my levels and found out what did and didn't work for me.

    I'm sorry to say it, but I feel that GP's just don't understand the concept at all.
     
  15. benniesmum

    benniesmum · Well-Known Member

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    Since Diabetes is the inability to process Carbs effectively, it makes no sense to eat more of them! I had the same silly advice from my doctor to start with, but cut the carbs, lost weight and reduced my HBA1c from 10.7 (fasting BG of 17.9) to 6.4 in six months! He now sees my point.

    PS I test my blood everyday.
     
  16. phill102676

    phill102676 Prediabetes · Newbie

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    All i can say is beleive in yourself and what you are doing is definately right for you. It's your body at the end of it all. I have had a similar experience and had recently have had severe reactions to metformin (2g a day glucophage) and glimepiride 1mg in combination (caused hypo/diabetic coma). The i was switched to a combination of the metformin (same dosage) and actos tablets (which lead to more problems than you can possibly imagine). The whole scenario was a mess, so after reading around on the web I found my problems could be all the tablets, so I stopped taking them and you just do not know how much better I am both in brain power and physically. This episode has made me change my diet and i am not on no carbs but low-carbs of which are sugars. I weight my portions of food and have stopped eating proceessed foods, which have been replaced by fruit, lean meats etc. I too have lost 1 stone (6KG) by doing so as well (gone from 94kg to 88kg and still losing). I am highest in the evening around 10.0-14.0 now and following my own created excercise regeime can knock this down to around 5-7 before i go to bed and in the morning my sugars are around 5.5 to 6.0.
    When on the metformin no difference was seen in my blood sugars at all and I was very lathargic and achy. The Actos was a nightmare and I was hospitalised on 5 separate occasions within 1 month of taking them due to cold shock and passing out. My diabetic consultant tried to convince me to go onto other tablets, byetta and possibly insulin but when I showed him my blood sugar levels over the past two week of taking no tablets at all he was very impressed. My statement was 'no more tablets, ever' and I shall stick by that. Byetta is relatively new and I will not go on to anything without reviewing 10 years of clinical data in patient's. So I gather the message is stick to your guns unless there is a major increase in sugar levels.
    I test twice a day as recommended by my doctor once randomly during the day at anytime and before i go to bed and for the next 4 months we are going to see how it goes. Even though I know my situation has improved massively. So keep up the good work.

    p.s. if any one has any problems with metformin it only takes 24 hours to clear from the body via the renal route and Actos is thought to work on the antioxidant mechanism and took longer to remove i.e my symptoms got milder and dissappeared after 3-4 days after stopping.

    Take care yourself, stay positive, be calm and keep going.

    Phill :)
     
  17. salty

    salty · Member

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    Hi Murdo / All

    I am newly diagnosed (last friday) and have levels today as high as 17.4
    I was told by the dietician in hospital to eat starcy carbs as the main part of my control to lose weight and reduce my levels. They have put me on 2 x 500mg Metformin morning and night and 80mg Gliclzide 1 in the morning and 1/2 in the evening. But my levels have not been below 14.0 since I got out of hospital(was in for 2days with levels at 33.3.

    I have read all of the responses in this post and i'm amazed what I have been told by the NHS and what I have read here..

    Can you please take time to advise me on what to eat to bring my levels down I am as from now going to cut out bread,pasta rice.. but would welcome all your help in sharing your diets or foods that helped you all. I know we are all different but the common call seems to be cut out the carbs..Can you recommend a controled diet I could use.

    Chris.

    ps I have appointment with my doc on Thursday and know he will not agree with cut out carbs to reduce my levels. If they think they can pump me full of drugs or insulin they are in for a shock..
     
  18. Synonym

    Synonym · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris,

    Glad you found this site so soon after diagnosis as this could make such a difference to you! :D

    Ask your doctor for a meter and a prescription for testing strips so that you can be proactive in the management of your condition. You need to test to see what your food does to your BG levels and as we are all different one size really does not fit all. :roll:

    You will also benefit from a Collins gem Carb Counter (£3.99) or similar book which will give the low down on a wide range of foods and help you to make informed choices.

    If you arm yourself with these tools you should be able to work out a menu for yourself. We all make very different food choices so there isn’t any set diet except that we cut down on the carbs in order to bring down the BG levels.

    I eat fish, meat, cheese, eggs, vegetable, salad bits and fruit in moderation. Very simple really. 8) It will take about three days to settle in to your new way of eating and to lose the hunger so just hang on in there!

    Let us know how you are getting on.
     
  19. salty

    salty · Member

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    Hi Synonym

    Thanks for your reply, I have been looking constantly on what to do, GI foods and so on. I do eat meat,fish,veg and everything you have mentioned so now that I'm aware that lower intake of carbs is the way forward ( I think) hopefully I'll be ok. My wife has mentioned that the increase of fat into my diet may push my cholesterol up ( docs said it was bit high being "6") what that means i have no idea.

    But lower carb intake is the way i'm going to go, was thinking of around between 50g and 70g a day is that reasonable and realistic do think??

    But will let you know how it goes.

    Many Thanks

    Chris.
     
  20. Synonym

    Synonym · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Chris

    It would appear to be something of a fallacy that your cholesterol will go up judging by the results of those on the forum; it will be interesting to see how your numbers pan out.

    I use butter, coconut oil, olive oil and cream regularly and my numbers are fine. None of us go for anything in a big way and certainly not fat - all things in moderation! 8)

    Keep us updated! :)
     
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