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Dawn phenomenon help

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by alf15, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. alf15

    alf15 · Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm having the dawn phenomenon between 9-11am. When I go to bed my bs is usally between 5-7. Last nigth for example my bs was 7.7 and I had no food before i went to sleep. I woke up 8:30 and my bs was 8.6, which isnt a major rise. But if i dont eat breakfast it rises to about 9 or 11.

    Is there any why to over come this? I an currently on novarapid and 10 or 12shots of lantus at night depending if i excerise the nigth before. Would it be best to increase my lantus? Would splitting it help?

    Any advice would be welcomed.

    Thanks

    Alan
     
  2. alf15

    alf15 · Well-Known Member

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    Also when I play 5 aside football my BS rises sometimes, like yesterday my bs was 6.6 before i started, and when i finished it was 10 and i took no food and no drink. Is there any way of over coming this also? No this only happenes every few weeks! Is it something I have to put up with?
     
  3. hanadr

    hanadr · Expert

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    Dawn phenomenon is frustrating and there's no easy answer. Look on David Mendosa's website for suggestions.
    Hana
     
  4. NickW

    NickW · Well-Known Member

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    There's no way of stopping dawn phenomenon (that I know of), but theknowledge that it occurs is all you really need. I've simply started taking insulin to combat it; I inject a dose specifically to counteract the rise that I know will happen. You might try this; or you might be better off simlpy making sure you always eat breakfast, and inject the appropriate amount to cover that (assuming that you can control your blood when you eat breakfast).

    The exercise thing might be harder in your case. Generally speaking, very intense exercise can raise BG (due to a release of various hormones - think stuff like sprint intervals, heavy weight lifting etc.) and it can be necessary to inject insulin to cover the exercise. Longer, less intense exercise tends to lower BG (think cycling, distance running) and it can be necessary to lower insulin doses and / or eat carbs to cover this. Football is a mix of the two, and depending on how you're playing you might put in loads of short sprints one week then plod round a bit more the next. This would lead to totally different behaviours.

    There's no easy answer to this because of the variability, unless you can guarantee to play at the same intensity every week (which you probably can't). You don't want to inject insulin beforehand as it might lead to a hypo, so probably the best you can do is to make sure you start the game with a good level and test at half time and again afterwards. If your blood's risen in the first half you might consider a small injection; if it's dropped then obviously take on some carbs.

    The other thing is to get your blood under control straight away afte the game. This may be one of those lifestyle choices that you have to make - you might never get perfect control around a game of football, but you might be willing to sacrifice a few hours of good bloods for the pleasure of playing. And if you can manage to improve your control at other times you might still end up with great HbA1C's.

    Hope that helps :).
     
  5. alf15

    alf15 · Well-Known Member

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    thanks everybody for the replys.

    With regards to covering the dawn phenomenon at breakfast, i tried that and some times it works and then other times i dont produce sugars and i go low because i took extra shots to cover the dawn phenomenon! Its just a pain in the ass!

    With the football i think you are spot NickW, id say some times i bust a gut and then some times i just take it easy, which would explain my bs rising and not rising! I was really busting my ass because I thought maybe it would stop my bs from rising. I think ill try play at a steady pace and see how that goes.

    My bs is controlled pretty good for someone who only has type 1 one year this month (my diabetes bday haha) So having highish blood sugars for a few hours isnt gona kill me i guess...even though when its highish i feel funny, kinda like a dizzy/bouncy feeling, must be my eyes trying to adjust to the high bs or blood flowing to brain due to sugar in veins.
     
  6. Dennis

    Dennis Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Alf,

    You are right in that a small rise for a short time isn't going to do any lasting damage, but something to remember is that once your liver has started producing glucose, the only thing that will stop it is to eat something. So the longer you go between rising and breakfast then the higher your BS will go. The sooner you have your breakfast then the less impact the dawn phenomenon will have.
     
  7. acron^

    acron^ · Well-Known Member

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    I'm still struggling with DP as well :( Rather oddly, I don't seem to get it at weekends and my theory is this: During the week I eat at ~7pm and go to bed at 10.30pm/11pm and wake up at 6.30am/7am. My pre-breakfast sugar is usually between 6 and 8. At the weekend I eat at ~8.30pm - 9.00pm go to bed at 12.30am/1am and wake up at 8.30am/9am. My sugars then are usually between 4 and 6. Therefore, I think that when I eat later, my liver doesn't dump and I don't have DP. Does this sound plausible?
     
  8. cugila

    cugila · Master

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    Acron.

    I think you have hit the nail on the head here. It can and does depend on what your reading was the previous night just before bedtime. If it was very low during the night then it is triggered and your morning reading will be higher. Conversely, if it is high last thing then the effect is minimised, it just isn't needed, or at least not as much ? I tend to have a carby snack last thing if my levels are low, then the am reading is more normal.

    DP explained here.
    viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7885&hilit=+dawn+phenomenon#p73438
     
  9. alf15

    alf15 · Well-Known Member

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    So am I right is saying if my b/s is higher ie 7 or 8 before bed, then my liver wont dump when i wake? But if my bs is lower then my body will look for energy and my liver will dump?

    Very interesting stuff the way the body works! What I will do it try eat earlier and see if that helps..if not i guess the only other option is take extra shots or just dont go to sleep ha ha!
     
  10. acron^

    acron^ · Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant as always Ken. Thanks.
     
  11. sophsmam

    sophsmam · Well-Known Member

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    my daughter was 7.7 at 10.30pm last night and woke up with b/s of 12.8.would it have been best to have given her something say a bit of milk.i've just realised that when she's been aroundabout that figure that she's been high next morning.all makes sense now.
     
  12. acron^

    acron^ · Well-Known Member

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    I actually did some tests through the night, last night.

    4u Levemir @ 10pm
    5.0mmol @ 12pm
    7.0mmol @ 2am
    6.2mmol @ 4am
    8.0mmol @ 7am

    To me, that makes no sense. I can't even figure out what's happening.
     
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