Do I test if I am 'post diabetic'?

[Pipp]

I started this conversation sort of accidentally in another thread. So apologies for my poor etiquette.

I was diagnosed T2, 9 years ago. Three years ago I used Newcastle diet and within days blood glucose had returned to non-diabetic levels. I lost 42 kg on Newcastle diet, and Metformin was reduced to one tablet a day. My BG readings stayed within the non-diabetic range, so after about 18 months ago I was told to stop testing. I still have a lot of weight to lose, and as I had to have two major operations my GP wanted me to stay on Metformin until after the surgery. I have regained a few kg in the interim period, but not beating myself up about that, as I have been very ill, and I am now recovering and working on weight loss.

I had the second operation early this year, and I am only just starting to get back to being able to exercise. My HbA1c last month was 41, fasting glucose 4.8. This was slightly increased from the previous one which was HbA1c 36. Hardly surprising when you consider the 15 months or so fairly immobile, and hospital food being a lot of carb, (and yes, I confess to enjoying the chocolate and other goodies visitors brought).

So, I have been sort of confident that I have been a Professor Taylor et al Newcastle diet success in reversing diabetes. BUT, very very apprehensive in case I fall at the final hurdle, i.e. Metformin stopped. In view of what I have been reading on the forum (thanks guys) a possible reason I was told I no longer needed to test BG is due to financial restrictions rather than me being a super successful patient.

Having considered the need to test, and some good advice from forum members, I had a discussion with GP earlier. I had an appointment for something else, (i usually see the nurse for diabetes checks, and this is a new doctor) but at the end of the consultation I mentioned recent results and she said I should try to get HbA1c to the lower level again. 'Should I be testing BG', I asked. 'No, we only ask people on insulin to test', she replied. 'How will I be able to tell if I am getting BG lower then'? I asked. 'Just eat less sugar'. OK, I pick my battles, and rather than waste time, I hotfooted to the pharmacy, and bought a shiny new meter and a bucketload of test strips, and re-joined the ranks of finger stabbers. I am hoping it will only be for a short while, as I am hoping I have achieved post-diabetic status, but for the cost of a good night out I am going to get the evidence to show one way or another, diabetic or not diabetic.

 

[sarah]

Post-diabetic? Not heard of that. As your Hba1c went up when you ate more carbs and you're still on metformin, I would suggest you're diabetic, forget the prefix. Even if you do come off the metformin, you'll still be diabetic, albeit medication free. Sounds to me like you need to test as often as the rest of us type 2's.

 

[Bluetit1802]

........ and why worry about testing? You know the advantages, and you don't even need to confess to your doctor if you don't want to. It's your body, not his.

 

[Pipp]

Post-diabetic? Not heard of that. As your Hba1c went up when you ate more carbs and you're still on metformin, I would suggest you're diabetic, forget the prefix. Even if you do come off the metformin, you'll still be diabetic, albeit medication free. Sounds to me like you need to test as often as the rest of us type 2's.

Thanks Sarah
I am no longer on Metformin.
I ate a lot of carbs in the 15 months or so that I was immobile through illness and depending on other people to provide meals. Although my HbA1c went up in that time, it remained in non-diabetes range, where it has been for almost 3 years.
The 'post-diabetic' statement is in inverted commas, because I am still unsure that I am. That is why I made the decision today to buy my own meter and test strips despite being told it wasn't necessary.
Also, before I stopped testing a while ago, I was constantly getting non-diabetes figures, and sore fingers.

 

[Pipp]

........ and why worry about testing? You know the advantages, and you don't even need to confess to your doctor if you don't want to. It's your body, not his.

Thanks bluetit1802
I am not worried about testing, more worried about not testing, if that makes sense.
Won't be discussing the testing with that doctor anyway. She is new, and didn't even know that I had been (or for those in doubt, am) diabetic. She just went on the recent HbA1c.

 

[sarah]

It's great that your hard work has paid off and you're off medication and getting non-diabetic numbers but you're still diabetic, just a well-controlled one. Your GP doesn't sound overly helpful so this is your call. Testing is up to you, you are aware of the benefits of doing so and if you want to remain in the non-diabetic range, I would suggest that testing will help with that a lot.

 

[Pipp]

I am not sure how to define diabetic or none diabetic?

 

[sally and james]

My husband doesn't test anymore - well, perhaps just once in a while for a bit of reassurance. Almost everything we eat is home made, so we know what's in it and we know what he can and can't eat, so don't really see the point. Random tests haven't produced any surprises and HbA1c's are in the mid 30's. At first (a whole year ago!), we tested all the time and kept a detailed food diary - this has paid off. Obviously, if you eat a lot of prepared food or you are not fully confidant about what you should or should not be eating, testing is still important.
Sally

 

[Pipp]

My husband doesn't test anymore - well, perhaps just once in a while for a bit of reassurance. Almost everything we eat is home made, so we know what's in it and we know what he can and can't eat, so don't really see the point. Random tests haven't produced any surprises and HbA1c's are in the mid 30's. At first (a whole year ago!), we tested all the time and kept a detailed food diary - this has paid off. Obviously, if you eat a lot of prepared food or you are not fully confidant about what you should or should not be eating, testing is still important.
Sally

Thank you.
Since I have recovered from surgery I am again able to cook my own food. Always fresh, home made, no processed food. Currently low carb too. That is because I want to lose weight, not because I fear raised BG.

 

[sarah]

A non-diabetic is someone who has never been diagnosed with diabetes. None of us on here will ever be non-diabetics again. All we can do is control it by eating well and exercising but we can't be "post-diabetic" as there is no such thing. Carbs will raise your blood sugars because you are diabetic. Only a meter can tell you how many carbs you can eat before this rise becomes unacceptable to you.

 

[Brunneria]

I think you probably count as 'pre-diabetic' but I like 'post-diabetic' better. Since that obviously makes no sense!

In your enviable situation I would be testing occasionally. Maybe a weekly fasting test, and then after a high carb meal. And I would have the odd one.

I would also be watching for weight gain - but you already have that well under control.

And I congratulate you on so sensibly picking your battles. It saves a lot of stress, doesn't it? And usually pays in the long run...

 

[peacetrain]

I started this conversation sort of accidentally in another thread. So apologies for my poor etiquette.

I was diagnosed T2, 9 years ago. Three years ago I used Newcastle diet and within days blood glucose had returned to non-diabetic levels. I lost 42 kg on Newcastle diet, and Metformin was reduced to one tablet a day. My BG readings stayed within the non-diabetic range, so after about 18 months ago I was told to stop testing. I still have a lot of weight to lose, and as I had to have two major operations my GP wanted me to stay on Metformin until after the surgery. I have regained a few kg in the interim period, but not beating myself up about that, as I have been very ill, and I am now recovering and working on weight loss.

I had the second operation early this year, and I am only just starting to get back to being able to exercise. My HbA1c last month was 41, fasting glucose 4.8. This was slightly increased from the previous one which was HbA1c 36. Hardly surprising when you consider the 15 months or so fairly immobile, and hospital food being a lot of carb, (and yes, I confess to enjoying the chocolate and other goodies visitors brought).

So, I have been sort of confident that I have been a Professor Taylor et al Newcastle diet success in reversing diabetes. BUT, very very apprehensive in case I fall at the final hurdle, i.e. Metformin stopped. In view of what I have been reading on the forum (thanks guys) a possible reason I was told I no longer needed to test BG is due to financial restrictions rather than me being a super successful patient.

Having considered the need to test, and some good advice from forum members, I had a discussion with GP earlier. I had an appointment for something else, (i usually see the nurse for diabetes checks, and this is a new doctor) but at the end of the consultation I mentioned recent results and she said I should try to get HbA1c to the lower level again. 'Should I be testing BG', I asked. 'No, we only ask people on insulin to test', she replied. 'How will I be able to tell if I am getting BG lower then'? I asked. 'Just eat less sugar'. OK, I pick my battles, and rather than waste time, I hotfooted to the pharmacy, and bought a shiny new meter and a bucketload of test strips, and re-joined the ranks of finger stabbers. I am hoping it will only be for a short while, as I am hoping I have achieved post-diabetic status, but for the cost of a good night out I am going to get the evidence to show one way or another, diabetic or not diabetic.

You've put a lot of hard work in in the face of some serious barriers so well done!

You test all you want and ignore the GP advice in this instance. You're not harming anyone or yourself.

Well done!


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Pipp]

Thanks@sarah
I need to have a think about this. If I never, ever, again have a diabetes level BG reading you say I will still be considered to be diabetic?
The diabetes nurse has told me that I am likely to be taken off the diabetes register if my next HbA1c test comes back under diabetes and pre-diabetes range, as that will have been over 3 years.

 

[Pipp]

I think you probably count as 'pre-diabetic' but I like 'post-diabetic' better. Since that obviously makes no sense!

In your enviable situation I would be testing occasionally. Maybe a weekly fasting test, and then after a high carb meal. And I would have the odd one.

I would also be watching for weight gain - but you already have that well under control.

And I congratulate you on so sensibly picking your battles. It saves a lot of stress, doesn't it? And usually pays in the long run...

Thank you @Brunneria
That does make sense. Perhaps there being no 'post-diabetic' category is because diabetes has been regarded by the medical professions as a progressive disorder, so they don't expect it to be resolved. Pre-diabetic, suggests one could go on to develop diabetes, and I certainly will be doing allI can to avoid that.

 

[Debmcgee]

What happens when you eat sugary foods? If you spike then you're still diabetic as far as I can tell....

Well done!!
X


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Diagnosed prediabetic Easter 2014. Just left to get on with it, no guidance or help from GP. Every day I'm learning something new.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I don't think the ND has been around long enough to know whether the results are life long.

If you can afford the strips, I think you should keep testing for the sake of science. People in 100 years will appreciate your efforts

 

[Pipp]

You've put a lot of hard work in in the face of some serious barriers so well done!

You test all you want and ignore the GP advice in this instance. You're not harming anyone or yourself.

Well done!


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Thanks@peacetrain
My issue wasn't about seeking GP approval to test, just wondering if it was really necessary given the BG results over the last 3 years. I am an arrogant git at times, (well, ok most/all of the time) so knowing more about my diabetes status than the GP I saw today I made my own mind up about testing. Having considered the opinions of the valued members of the forum first, of course.

 

[Brunneria]

A non-diabetic is someone who has never been diagnosed with diabetes. None of us on here will ever be non-diabetics again. All we can do is control it by eating well and exercising but we can't be "post-diabetic" as there is no such thing. Carbs will raise your blood sugars because you are diabetic. Only a meter can tell you how many carbs you can eat before this rise becomes unacceptable to you.

Pipp has said that she can eat carbs without BG spiking to diabetic levels.

Add to that, her blood tests seem to be below the diagnosis criteria for diabetes.

So it kinda looks like she isn't one of us, any more.

But I think she should keep posting, if only to inspire us all.

 

[Pipp]

@Avocado Sevenfold @Debmcgee
Are you encouraging me to experiment?
Tempted. Watch this space.

 

[sarah]

Why would you want to be taken off the diabetes register? You need all the tests a diabetic gets on a regular basis to make sure there is no damage happening to your body. An Hba1c doesn't tell us anything about spikes, only self-testing does. Hba1c is merely half the story.

By the way, an Hba1c of 41 is super for a diabetic but only just squeaks into the non-diabetic range. I'd be fighting for those regular health checks to continue for the rest of my life, if I were you. You're a well-controlled diabetic, not pre-diabetic, post-diabetic or non-diabetic.