1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2019 »
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Driving Licence Suspended

Discussion in 'Driving and DVLA' started by martynlloydkelly, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Hi everyone,

    I've been a type one diabetic for 22 years now, have good control and have been driving for 8 years now. I've had 2 hypos in the past 12 months, both of which whilst asleep and both of which caused by stress and exercise (more than what I was used to). I've subsequently stopped the excessive exercise, settled down and I've since had to reapply for my driving licence as it was a 3 year licence.

    Unfortunately, I've received a letter today from the DVLA, this is how it reads:

    "Dear Mr. Lloyd-Kelly,

    Thank you for sending in the medical questionnaire form which you downloaded from the internet.

    From the information given on the forms I have to advise you that you do not meet the standards required to hold a driving licence.

    When you meet the standards to drive and are eligible to reapply for your licence we will need an application from D1 together with up to date medical questionnaire DIAB1. If you have any queries regarding your fitness to drive please consult your GP before making any further application to DVLA.

    Yours sincerely,

    Drivers Medical Group"

    To say I'm outraged and completely at a loss is an understatement. As I say, the hypos mentioned on the forms were suffered whilst I was asleep; I have excellent hypo awareness of a daytime (I've never required medial assistance in the 22 years of having diabetes when I was fully conscious and a hypo was suffered). Furthermore, I've never had a hypo whilst driving and have in no way ever put anybody else in danger whilst driving my car due to my diabetes.

    So, where do I stand now? I've had a read of the information found here: https://www.gov.uk/driving-medical-conditions/what-the-dvla-will-decide and I have a few issues with regards to the details of the letter and this information:

    1) In step 3 of the process found on the link above it says: "If your licence is taken away you’ll be given a medical reason why, and be told when you can re-apply for your licence. You’ll also be sent a notice that explains your right to appeal against the decision." I haven't been given a medical reason in the letter and neither have I received a notice explaining my right to appeal so on what grounds is my licence being suspended and do I have a right to appeal?

    2) The letter states "From the information given on the forms I have to advise you that you do not meet the standards required to hold a driving licence". The only information I can glean from this it that it appears that the DVLA haven't even consulted my GP to find out the background to these hypos. How on earth do these people get away with generalised such a subjective condition?!

    3) I've heard from other sources on the internet that you have to wait 8 weeks before the anniversary of your first hypo mentioned on the forms before you can reapply, is this true?

    I'm lost without my car, both me and my girlfriend (who doesn't drive) rely on it to get around to work, to do shopping, to go to university etc. and I find the decision to be wholly unjustified and extremely unfair.

    If anybody can help please get in touch, I'll be ringing my doctor first thing in the morning to get this sorted out and my diabetes nurse specialist regardless.

    Thank you :)
     
  2. angieG

    angieG Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Hi,

    The hypos you suffered in the night did they require outside assistance?
    If you dealt with them yourself (or could have done even though someone may have brought you a drink or something to save you getting out of bed) you did not require assistance and so did not need to tick the yes box...

    From the DIAB1 online form....
    "Have you had more than one episode of severe
    hypoglycaemia (requiring assistance from another person)
    in the last 12 months? Do not count episodes where you
    were given help but could have helped yourself"

    If you ticked this box yes then DVLA will automatically revoke your licence.
    Give them a ring if you feel that you have made a mistake and see if they can help you.

    HTH
    Angie
     
  3. mo1905

    mo1905 Type 1 · BANNED

    Messages:
    4,334
    Likes Received:
    3,774
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I was under the impression that they only took into account hypo's where you required assistance from medics ! All diabetics will have many hypo's throughout the year but as long as you fix it yourself with a glucose drink or similar then that's fine ! I hope that's the case as I'm still waiting for mine to come back and I've had a few hypo's but never neede assistance. Hopefully, you may have ticked a box by mistake which can be easily rectified. Good luck and let us know how you get on !


    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
  4. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

    Messages:
    13,215
    Likes Received:
    12,468
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Ticking incorrect box is not easily rectified by dvla as a simple phone call, as you are actually signing an official document when ticking any box on it... They do not say ' oh yes, we inderstand- heres your licence back..

    Wish I could help with OP question, but hopefully someone who has experienced this will come along soon....
     
  5. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Hey everyone,

    Thanks for the responses guys, I'll be calling DVLA tomorrow to pursue the issue further.

    I've started a petition regarding this on change.org as I feel that the form itself and the decisions made regarding it are grossly unfair for anybody who has diabetes and knows how common asymptomatic nocturnal hypoglycaemia is.

    My issue isn't with the fact that I had a severe hypo, its that I wouldn't have had it if I was conscious and now I'm being penalised for something I had literally no control over. The knock on effect of this is people not declaring such episodes for fear of losing their licence. HGV drivers depend on their licence to make a living, do you think they're going to tell the DVLA about these episodes if it means losing their livelihood? The directive is far too myopic for such a subjective condition and I believe that each case should be considered on an individual basis. The petition explains my position further if you would care to read it and if you do thank you. Many more thanks if you decide to sign.

    The petition can be found here: https://www.change.org/en-GB/petiti...sion-of-drivers-licences-for-type-1-diabetics

    I will keep you informed regarding my progress with this and I fully intend to have this directive looked at and altered if applicable.

    Best,

    - Martyn
     
  6. justjay

    justjay · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The dvla forms are a right pain imo. I only hold a provisional and came the time for a renewal, sent my form off, never had to have help etc. They wrote to my GP for "extra information" but she ticked the wrong box as they are so poorly worded! So licence revoked before I even got it! I'll be signing the petition tomorrow
     
  7. carlrr

    carlrr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    58
    DVLA arnt very helpful at the best of times, a miserable old bunch that enjoys making other people miserable its their mission

    I hate dealing with them
     
  8. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Thanks for signing justjay, I can't understand how such a generalised directive made it into EU law, it's bordering on discrimination as far as I'm concerned. Hypo episodes aren't a simple matter as context plays a huge role in determining both severity and awareness. Simply saying "you've had two severe hypos in 12 months therefore you're not fit to drive" is crazy.

    If anybody has signed the petition here, thank you, remember to share the petition with your friends too as this directive needs discussion to prevent unnecessary upset to type 1 diabetics who, frankly, have enough to deal with without these narrow driving licence restrictions.
     
  9. Thundercat

    Thundercat · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,406
    Likes Received:
    287
    Trophy Points:
    103
  10. hale710

    hale710 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,903
    Likes Received:
    1,082
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Unless you were planning on driving while asleep I'm not sure why this is a problem! I'm lucky, Ive got my license. But at this rate how long for?!?
     
  11. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Hello everyone,

    Many thanks, Thundercat, glad you agree!

    Exactly my point, hale710. I don't understand where these people get their information from, apparently from thin air?!

    Updates
    I have spoken to my GP this morning and they have confirmed that they will be happy to speak to the DVLA regarding my case and provide them with a glowing medical report regarding my diabetes as I both take it seriously and have excellent control. I have also had a response from Diabetes UK's "advocacy" service asking me to give them a call but unfortunately I have been unable to get through to Jennifer who left her direct number in the email. The diabetes team at my diabetes centre have said that they will get the consultants on this and I will be emailing them in a moment with background details.

    I also spoke to the DVLA and the conversation went a little like this:

    Me: Hello, I'm a type 1 diabetic and my licence has been suspended but the letter I received does not give any medical reasons for this decision and neither is there any information regarding when I can reapply.
    DVLA: OK, I'll just pop you on hold
    *hold*
    DVLA: Hello, yes your licence has been suspended because you answered "yes" to the question "have you had two severe hypoglycaemic attacks in the past year?".
    Me: OK, I find that quite ridiculous as I have excellent blood sugar control, and the hypos mentioned happened of a night, whilst I was asleep. I have never had a severe hypo whilst conscious as I have excellent hypo awareness. There is a difference between the two, I could cite you numerous medical papers that support this assertion, its even got its own medical name "asymptomatic nocturnal hypoglycaemia", its like punishing a child for wetting the bed when asleep, he or she doesn't know that its happened until they wake up, they have no control.
    DVLA: OK, I've just told you why your licence has been suspended, that's all.
    Me: I appreciate that but I do take this as an affront to be perfectly honest, its bordering on discrimination.
    DVLA: Please hold, I'll have a word with some colleagues.
    *hold*
    DVLA: Sorry to keep you waiting again, yes, our doctor's here state that there is NO difference between night and day hypos and the legislation we follow is set out by the secretary of state.
    Me: Well, to be blunt, you're wrong, there is a world of difference but OK. Can I speak to these people?
    DVLA: No, we will speak to a medical professional representing you, but not to you.
    Me: Oh, so there's nothing more I can really do now?
    DVLA: No.
    Me: Thanks then, bye.

    I agree in one respect, there isn't a difference between night and day hypos, the issue is whether or not you're conscious when the hypo is occurring. What happens if you're in a coma due to an incident unrelated to diabetes but you then proceed to have a hypo, does that count against you for driving?

    To say this is laughable would be putting it mildly, I'm enraged right now and I am currently tweeting every high-profile diabetic celebrity in the UK asking if they would be so kind as to share the petition. I'm also e-mailing my MP and the petition now sends a letter to the Rt. Hon. Patrick McLoughlin MP, secretary of state for transport, to ask him to consider redrafting this insane directive. I'm also going to start attempting to contact various media outlets as I'm determined that this won't stop with me, no diabetic should be subject to such convoluted and medically uninformed directives, especially when it can have such a detrimental effect on your life.

    Will keep you all posted, please keep signing, please keep supporting and please keep sharing.

    - Martyn
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Diddly

    Diddly Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    68
  13. carlrr

    carlrr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Martyn

    It is people like yourself that makes life easier for people like us, you fight for what you believe to be fair and gust and we reap the rewards

    Keep it up I am certainly backing you
     
  14. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Thank you both so very, very, very much. I'm starting to get some support from the high profilers now (Joe Pasquale retweeted the petition!) and have been getting in contact with local newspapers. If I get anywhere locally I'll start on the bigger nationals and see if I can push this right to the top, that's a way off yet though. I really hope I can make a significant change for all diabetics affected by this. I'm still appalled by the directives and the narrow-minded of people who couldn't even begin to comprehend what we have to live with on a day-to-day basis.

    My diabetes has never held me back and it certainly won't be doing so now.

    Best,

    - Martyn
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    My grammar was terrible in that last post, I'm trying to do a hundred things at the moment so apologies!

    - Martyn
     
  16. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

    Messages:
    13,215
    Likes Received:
    12,468
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Martyn
    Hi.. I also had battle with dvla.. But not specifically the same as yours.

    The person I spoke to last time when I phoned them to renew my licence told me that ( forms I believe have changed now).... That if you circled that you were fully hypo aware all the time.. Ie tick box 10 for hi awareness rather than 1 for unawareness... That licence would be withdrawn because ( their words as I heard them) 'if you say you are hypo aware all the time, you probably aren't recognising hypo's'......

    I have had the local press involved regarding a house from hell.. They came to see me on the Saturday and on the Monday the national news got hold of me... They found my house, name everything and just knocked on my door and asked if they could film us and our house. Make sure that when dealing with press they advertise your petition too. I am sure they will be interested, as there isnt a lot occuring in UK now Margaret is buried!!!

    I will log on to petition later today.

    Good luck, I know that dvla are damn hard to get their decision overturned..... My (2nd consultant) at time was brilliant... He wrote details of my awareness in a letter ( no space for this at time with dvla forms for any details to be written by consultant!!) and he faxed letter to them. This has remained in my dvla file I believe to this date...

    I'm so backing you up...
     
  17. CollieBoy

    CollieBoy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,978
    Likes Received:
    5,579
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Martyn,
    It's not just type 2s who get shafted by the Welsh W*nkers, T2s get it too. So leave T1/T2 discrimination to DVLA, and when you produce your next petition, don't narrow it down to T1 only (There are more T2s to sign :lol: )
     
  18. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Hello everyone,

    That is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous and unclear questions I have ever, ever heard. Its almost as though they're seeking to ban you from driving for having diabetes!

    I've got family who have had serious dealing with the media so your warning is well taken, the focus is on the petition, the health editor for the Liverpool Echo who I spoke to today was very interested with regards to that side of things.

    Many thanks, really do appreciate it. Every signature is another step forward to overturning this craziness for all diabetics.

    My consultant is getting in touch with them tomorrow but as I say, even if my decision is overturned, I'm not stopping there. As far as I'm concerned I'm in this for the long-haul now and I'm fighting for every diabetic who has been unfairly treated due to this legislation. I know that sounds very grandiose but that's honestly what I feel like at the moment.

    Very, very much appreciated.

    You're right, apologies for this, I was completely unaware of the sitauation regarding type 2 diabetics when I originally created the petition. In my defence though, I didn't think the DVLA would be THAT harsh with respect to all diabetics. I thought it might only be the type 1's who were being subjected to such lunacy!

    Best,

    - Martyn
     
  19. CollieBoy

    CollieBoy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,978
    Likes Received:
    5,579
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Martyn.
    They want to bend us ALL over, and try to do it by abusing their power, so we need to work together so we can prove as much of a united force as possible. Good luck anyway. :thumbup:
     
  20. carlrr

    carlrr Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    58
    I think its to do with Insulin usage rather than just being a Diabetic, the nurse told me as she prescribed Lantus that it is compulsory to inform the DVLA and Insurance
    I said from the start that DVLA arnt nice to deal with
    I am Welsh by the way
     
    • Like Like x 2
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook