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DVLA Petition- Action for Diabetic Drivers

Discussion in 'Driving and DVLA' started by Minnie_19, Nov 10, 2014.

  1. Minnie_19

    Minnie_19 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Ah that's brilliant. I wasn't aware it had been published so thank you for the update, I've just found the article now. Thanks for your help!
     
  2. CarbsRok

    CarbsRok Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Muttley pork insulin has not been stopped and is available on the NHS. If you have been told this then you have been lied too. Please contact http://iddt.org/ and tell them what has happened. There is no reason not to use porcine or bovine insulin using DAFNE or MDI or in fact using it a pump as I do :)

    Insulin's available http://www.wockhardt.com/products/search-products.aspx :)
     
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    #22 CarbsRok, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:12 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2014
  3. Muttley61

    Muttley61 Type 1 · Member

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    Thanks for the confirmation. I have to see my diabetes nurse this Friday and I still want to talk-over my 2 episodes with my specialist as has yet to back-me-up to the DVLA
     
  4. himtoo

    himtoo Type 1 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

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    Hi Helen
    this was posted by a mate on my other forum and he asked me to pass it along to you so i have copied and pasted :)

    The following now appears as a comment to the newspaper website's article:

    "The form which insulin-treated diabetics have to fill in (DIAB1https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/254415/DIAB1.pdf ) to apply for a driving licence has as question 3c: "Have you had more than one episode of severe hypoglycaemia (requiring assistance from another person) in the last 12 months? Do not count episodes where you were given help but could have helped yourself." The final sentence is in bold and italics on the form.

    It is not clear from the article above whether Helen was able to treat the hypo herself, or could have been able to treat the hypo herself without the assistance of another person.

    It is always possible that Helen was using an out-of date copy of DIAB1, since the wording has changed."

    The Guidance Notes for DIAB1 for filling in Q3c state (bottom right of page 7):
    Q3c
    Tick YES or NO; we need to know if you have had more than one episode of severe hypoglycaemia in the last 12 months.
    ● You should only count episodes where you have needed another person to help you
    ● You do not need to count episodes where you had help but could have treated yourself.
    Needing assistance would include:
    – admission to Accident and Emergency
    – treatment from paramedics, or
    – assistance from a partner/friend who has to administer glucagon or glucose because you cannot do so yourself

    Perhaps himtoo could point this out to Helen on the other forum - she may possibly have filled in the DIAB1 form incorrectly.
     
  5. Malcolm1

    Malcolm1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    A similar thing happened in the mid to late nineties with HGV drivers, some drivers who’d had type 1and were on insulin and type 2 on tablets for years without ever having a hypo suddenly had their licence revoked many of which were owner drivers so lost their livelihood and had to sell their vehicles, I was diagnosed type 2 in 1996 just as I was taking my HGV training and even though I was diet controlled I was limited to a class 2 HGV licence and could not do my class 1, though I do believe the dvla changed their ruling again a few years later to allow people who were on tablets to drive class 2 HGV, I have signed and shared the petition though I do think that Diabetes Uk could do more by getting the members here on the site to sign as you say you need 100,000 names and there are 174,914 people who get the news letter why has this not been highlighted on every news letter sent out or are am I the only one on the list over the minimum age to drive, the way things are going Diabetics will become like epileptics and not even be allowed to apply for a driving licence, THIS ISSUE MAY NOT EFFECT YOU NOW BUT IT MAY IN THE FUTURE DO SOMTHING NOW BEFORE IT’S TO LATE
     
  6. Minnie_19

    Minnie_19 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I agree that many perhaps do not realise how it may affect them in the future and although I appreciate it probably won't change my own circumstances I would like to hope that in raise awareness and gaining signatures I could make a difference to other people.

    Having gone through this, It has been really difficult and has made me feel very isolated and discriminated against. At times I have felt so angry that I have been treated this way and that the efforts I go to to keep my diabetes so well controlled was for nothing. I obviously realises this isn't the case and it will stop complications from occurring in the future but it is so frustrating.

    I have spoken to Diabetes UK closely throughout this process. They have been helpful in letting me know who to contact to raise awareness of the campaign. However they are unable to support the campaign until they hear back from the outcome of the EU meeting with REFIT which was held on the 20th November in Brussels. If the response is negative I have been informed that they plan to campaign and raise awareness in the new year. Unfortunately they told me that they would not be able to help promote my campaign at present or in the new year which was very disappointing. Therefore I am relaying on posting on forums, Facebook, twitter, www.actionfordiabeticdrivers.org.uk and media/poster coverage to get the word out there. It is happening slowly and we continue to gain signatures, but support from diabetes uk would have helped considerably I feel.

    Thank you for supporting the campaign an ms sharing your own experiences. It really is appreciate and will hopefully help step in the right direction towards changing the directives which are discriminating diabetic who are stable and controlled drivers.
     
  7. cello

    cello · Newbie

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    I have been reading this thread with great interest. I am a type 2 on tablets. I test before and during driving long distances. I have only ever had one hypo at home whilst decorating ...

    The question is a very worrying one to us all. The question to be asked is who is making this decision at the Dvla are they qualified ? Do they have the knowledge. It would appear not. There must be allowances for us all... An appeal process should be there and allow the specialists who treat us a say.

    Any further news on Police Scotland stance that they wish to ban diabetics from driving. Reported in the Press and
    Journal recently.

    Best of luck to you all
     
  8. Homer59

    Homer59 Type 2 · Newbie

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    Hi, I've recently had my Class 1 licence revoked. I used to drive artics and have type 2 diabetes which is controlled by diet and medication. I have never had any episodes of hypo's although sometimes my blood glucose readings are borderline. I have to take blood readings every two hours relevant to driving. Like you, I am currently in dispute with the bureaucrats at DVLA and would like to know who is actually on the medical team at Swansea, whether there are any doctors or whether its just pen pushers sitting behind desks reading the EU directives and just activating them. My licence renewal took ten weeks from application to their revocation. My appeal started three weeks ago and still I have not received any notification from them. DVLA informed me that they currently have an 8 week waiting list for reviewal of any medical issues. I will sign your petition as this procedure is unfair and unjust when people with other disabilities can drive .
     
  9. Davyb

    Davyb Type 2 · Active Member

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    Much of the history of anything related to diabetes in the DVLA can be read in the Minutes/Agendas of the DM Committee https://www.gov.uk/government/group...visory-panel-on-driving-and-diabetes-mellitus which go back to 2012 and minutes going back to 2000 are in the national archives (linked from the above page)
    That committee meets every 6 months. The committee has 2 lay members, one, the Dr, is Diabetes UK's representative, and anyone writing to the panel should consider copying their letter to the lay member.

    The reference document for anything DVLA medical is the "At A Glance guide", (AAG) a PDF (intended audience is doctors) https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/at-a-glance - the link to the document (currently 74 pages, latest is 2014-11-27, Chapter 3 Diabetes, starts at page 47)

    There has been much discussion of the definition of what a serious hypo is, in those minutes (including referrals to the EU - Item 8 in the 14_oct_2104 minutes is this subject)
    DEFINITION: "no episode of hypoglycaemia requiring the assistance of another person has occurred in the preceding 12 months" - 27 Nov 2014 AAG

    If it were not for the Third EU directive diabetic drivers would not be allowed to hold Group 2 (vocational) licences, until November 2011 diabetes on insulin the maximum entitlement was 7.5T LGV only. and for Group 2 drivers a single severe hypo event will cause your license to be revoked.

    Unfortunately we in the UK tend to copper bottom and gold plate any EU directive as were have a rigorous centralised implementation of driver licensing. Most other countries implement with a degree of latitude and allow much wiggle room.

    Any of the DVLA staff who answer phone calls are not medical professionals, they are merely experienced call centre staff who have been trained for driving licence medical queries. DVLA also have a policy of not using faxes (outgoing), even to GP surgeries, due to confidentiality / data protection. DVLA have expected times for most cases, for Diabetic driver licensing the estimate is usually 3 months.

    My own personal experience is twice their time estimates (targets) is to be expected. In 2 cases so far. It took 5 months for me to get group 2 (7.5 Tonne and provisional entitlement for classes C, D reinstated when I was on tablets) and its been 5 months and counting for Group 2 entitlement reinstatement now I'm on insulin. The decision has been made (success) but I'm waiting for them to issue and send me the license.

    One area that concerns me is that Vocational drivers of Taxis (i.e. Licensed as Hackney Carriages) and Private Hire (i.e. pre booked by phone or at the operational base). These are supposed to have the same medical standards as Group 2 drivers, but they do not have to go through the same rigorous medicals as LGV/PCV drivers since the administration of taxi licensing is with Local Authorities (i.e. Councils).

    Currently for Group 1 drivers on insulin can be issued for 1, 2 or 3 years and 1 year for Group 2 drivers.Unfortunately for Group 2 drivers transitioning to insulin treatment (first time section 88 of the Road traffic act does not apply - this bit of law allows you to drive while DVLA is processing your application when the application is expected to be successful) this currently means they are not allowed to drive for 3 months minimum, if you stick to "the not allowed to drive until a decision has been made", if you do you risk driving without valid insurance, and I can see every insurer there is, weaselling out in the event of a claim in those circumstances.

    Personally I think that the validity of licenses for all, Group 1 and 2 drivers affected by diabetes treatment with insulin, should be 5 years (same as a Group 2 driver who does not suffer from a medical condition) but with a condition for many drivers including group 2 drivers, similar to the eyesight correction requirements, that they should have gone through (or going through) the medical assessment procedure within the last 12 months (or other periods specified for Group 1) drivers.
     
    #29 Davyb, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:44 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2014
  10. Oblomov

    Oblomov · Member

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    So sorry this has happened to you.
    But this really is a very old issue.
    I lost mine , a number of years ago. Very similar. Just as the new laws were being implemented. DVLA later admitted their Doctors were applying the laws earlier than the laws were actually supposed to come into effect!!!!!

    And again this year, lost for a minor box ticking issue!!

    Both times I hired the world re-known Lawyer for driving - Philip Somarakis, who is beyond superb, and knows all the rules and all the big wigs at DVLA. He managed to get my licence back a lot quicker than I would have without him. He is worth EVERY Penny.


    EU directive is well known by British Diabetic Association and they too have given up trying to get this issue addressed.
    There have been a number of high profile other petitions, I signed one for a young man under similar circumstances, last year, I think.
    I am so sorry but I think you need to recognise that this is a old hat issue and there is no evidence to suggest that anything is going to change in the near future.
     
  11. Davyb

    Davyb Type 2 · Active Member

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    @Homer59 read my post about 16 minutes after your post, yes the advisory panel are mostly doctors - their names appear in the minutes of the "Secretary of State for Transport’s Honorary Medical Advisory Panel on driving and diabetes mellitus", often the problems appear to be in the implementation and day to day administration of the regulations, DVLA Medical seem to be extremely under resourced, and often the staff appear to go by their own idea of what the rules should be. You should be able to get your full entitlement back. The procedure is just a major PITA.

    In a recent conversation with one of their call centre workers they were not aware that the driving license paper counterpart was not being issued and will no longer be required from 1st of Jan 2015, which was announced in a press release on 18 Jul 2014.

    It looks to me that DVLA are under severely under resourced and the DVLA Medical unit especially.

    @Oblomov - its not an old issue but still an ongoing one and probably will be for years
     
    #31 Davyb, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:10 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2014
  12. Malcolm1

    Malcolm1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    When I was driving taxies I had to have to have a medical every 12 months with a doctor nominated by the council (which I had to pay for) once I was diagnosed with type 2 even when I was just diet controlled which I did not need to have when I held my class 2 HGV at the same time, that was with Newcastle upon Tyne council other councils will have their own rulings, I still have friends who drive taxies and are type1 who have to see a doctor every 9 months in Newcastle to keep their badges
     
  13. Davyb

    Davyb Type 2 · Active Member

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    It seems to vary a lot by council, but I suspect that Taxi drivers at most only have a medical with their own G.P. similar to the D4 medical, but annually, and not have the 3 forms annual medical assessment that LGV/PCV drivers on insulin have

    1) you complete VDIAB1I form,
    2) your own doctor or hospital consultant completes form DIAB2 in your presence
    3) DVLA appointed independent consultant completes form DIAB3 in your presence

    there are 55 appointed consultants at present and DVLA pays the doctors for these 2 appointments.
    There are a whole family of DIAB1 forms. + VDIAB1GEN, VDIAB1SG, VDIAB1I

    [UPDATE You need 90 days of data on memory meter(s), 500 memories is very marginal, so that rules out a lot of meters, minimum 2 readings every day, before driving and every 2 hours relevant to driving duty.

    I would suggest any LGV/PCV who has lost their entitlements and wants them back, do so, this also applies to everyone who has lost their C1+E i.e. 7.5T and D (not for hire reward) this will include large motorhomes and many horse boxes etc. these are entitlements came automatically if you passed you test before 1995

    see information at https://www.gov.uk/diabetes-driving leaflets (downloadable PDFs) INF188/2, INS186, INF188/5 could be relevant to you.

    The successful outcome would be an annual license]
     
    #33 Davyb, Nov 30, 2014 at 12:49 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2014
  14. treefrog

    treefrog Type 2 · Member

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    I understood the question about assisted Hypo's meant whilst you were driving, not whilst you are asleep.
     
  15. treefrog

    treefrog Type 2 · Member

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  16. treefrog

    treefrog Type 2 · Member

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    I had my insulins changed from Glargine & Novo Rapid to a mixed insulinn, I was informed this was due to cost. I didn't do well on the mixed insulin as I went up to 300 units aday, I was eventually put back on my original insulins ( due to cost I think) and now I take less than 50 units a day.
     
  17. whosbear

    whosbear Type 2 · Active Member

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    Hi Helen,
    Good luck with the petition although I couldn't get to the link. I will look up the Face Book page Action for Diabetic Drivers. I had a lot of trouble last year when I was applying for my HGV provisional. I'm type 2 and on Gliclazide. There was a lot of letter writing between DVLA and my GP. Finally after 6 or 7 months I finally got it and passed my HGV in February this year. I wish you all the best in getting your licence back. Sensible diabetics should not get punished if we regularly check our sugars. It's like taxi drivers and their insurance. They got favored once they insurance companies realised they look after their cars more than regular drivers.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Poison-dwarf

    Poison-dwarf · Newbie

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    I have done this and added a rant at DVLA as well. I am a T/1 for 49yrs now I am in good health and have also had catagories deleted from my licence with out notice. This is through no fault of my own.(HGV) 1 & 2
    I feel that it is time that maybe as a group we take the Bloody DVLA to court to get these back. i took my tests to drive ride as does everyone else also when i took my tests and applied to the DVLA stating i was a type 1 diabetic, I was told by them that all applications made were on individual merit & control levels and would issued as such. So if this is the case how have i so far lost my HGV 1 & 2 and my Trike category off my licence. I have not even had any hypo's or ailments that would suggest that i had to loose these parts of my licence? Well this is not treating me in the way that i was told (On my own individual case) is it. Now i am restricted to a silly 3.5 ton category and this does not even cover my motorhome that i love to use. Or even my daughters horse box that i personally converted out of a Volvo truck. Had to sell them all and a coach that was personally converted by me and my family for use away from home. It has been a massive strain financially as i lost a mass of money on these vehicles. Complaints to DVLA just fall on deaf ears and this is not fair as they are not the law on motoring. I passed my tests at my own expense and they have just been taken away with out any faults on my part. THIS IS CRIMINAL to say the least. Why are the DBA not backing us to get these back as falsely taken with out reason
     
  19. Minnie_19

    Minnie_19 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Blimey thats a lot of replays! Fantastic :)

    @cello - it appears your question has already been answered!
    @Homer59- Thank you for signing the petition, and good luck with your own appeal. It is so frustrating that it takes such a long time to review each case. Perhaps this is something they should do before revoking a persons licence? Surely it would save them more work in investigating and reviewing each persons case following their licences being revoked. It just doesn't make sense to me! Please keep us updated with how your appeal goes and any issues that arise from it.
    @Oblomov- Thank you for your comments. I am aware of the petition raised by Martyn Llyod-Kelly that was raised last year, if this is the same man your are referring to? I have been in contact with him and he has supported me a great deal and has been fantastic at offering advise and support. I appreciate that this is an ongoing issue and as previously mentioned I was unaware of it before this happened to me. This makes me even more determined to raise awareness, because I think until it happens to you, you don't know how poor the system is. I would hope by making as many diabetics aware of the issues that more people will support the campaign and we may be listened too. Unfortunately I am not one to sit back and let things happen that I feel are unfair and discriminative. Chances are things won't change, but at least I would have tried.
    @Davyb - I think you've hit the nail right on the head there regarding how understaffed the medical department at the DVLA are. I think this is a prime example as to why cases are not being examined initially on an individual basis, and this is an issue which surely needs to be identified and solved in order to stop licences being lost unnecessarily. As previously discussed, surely if it was looked at properly the first time round, it would save them more time, rather than having to contact peoples Consultants etc following an appeal.
    @whosbear - Thank you for your support. I'm sorry your having problems accessing the link. Hopefully this one will work for you: http://tinyurl.com/A4DD-petition
    The Facebook group is available at : https://www.facebook.com/ActionforDiabeticDrivers?ref=br_tf
    and we are currently setting up a webpage too, although I apologise that it isn't completely finished yet, this is available at : www.actionfordiabeticdrivers.org.uk
    If you or anyone would like any posters please message me with your details and I am happy to send some out to you. I'm glad to hear you finally got your licence back, but isn't it dreadful that it took you nearly 7 months to get it back. It's such an awful system.
    @Posion-Drawf - Thank you for signing the petition. I am unsure as to why Diabetes UK haven't already made a bigger deal of this problem. It does sound like this is something that will happen in the new year from talking to Diabetes Voices. its just a shame they weren't able to support this campaign as well. However, at the same time I think the more of us that start our own campaigns and really kick up a fuss, then the government will have to review it! Well we can hope anyway.

    Thanks again to everyone for your support.

    Helen
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Minnie_19

    Minnie_19 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    That meant to say reply!
     
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