Effective treatment for complications not coming to a chemist near you...

[Dillinger]

I've often wondered about c-peptide which is involved with the production of insulin. I've wondered because traditionally we are told that the body makes insulin and c-peptide and the c-peptide is just a by product that can be thrown away. Which is nice, except that that is absolutely not how evolution works; it does not produce things for fun.

Here is a very interesting article that shows how c-peptide therapy can alleviate a whole host of the normal complications of diabetes for Type 1's.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/61/4/761.full#ref-75

Sounds good eh? I'd like to take c-peptide to help with all those things, but guess what? I can't because even though its benefits are observable no-one appears to be doing anything about it and I bet part of that is because 'everyone knows that c-peptide is a by-product of insulin production' and has no use...

I sometimes want to shake the medical profession whilst shouting EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE at them - so many doctors think that their education stops as soon as they leave university and what is worse what they have been taught is infallible, after all 'everyone knows that too much fat causes heart disease' eh?

Best

Dillinger

 

[smidge]

Yes, it really is maddening. I have had several recent conversations with my consultant about the role of evidence when it comes to analysing diabetes control.

In computing, we can't keep full logging on all the time on systems because it uses too much system resource and impacts performance, so we decide on an appropriate logging level for each system in normal operation, but the first thing we do when anything starts to go wrong is turn on full logging so that we gather evidence to analyse to try to root cause the issue.

In diabetes management we take a guess at what might be wrong, followed by a guess at how we might fix it. Not my idea of good problem-solving techniques and certainly not evidence-based.

As for c-peptide, I've long believed it must have a role to play in our bodies - otherwise it wouldn't be produced. It's very disappointing that so much is known about its impact, but so little movement seems to be made to produce a replacement form of it. Having said that, I would have thought that Type 2s do still produce c-peptide, so there should be a significant difference in the complications associated with Type 1 and Type 2 if it plays a considerable role in the avoidance of complications. Or maybe that's too simplistic.

Smidge

 

[Indy51]

I seem to recall hearing an interview with a Joslin medalist called Richard who said he never had complications until he was put on modern insulin and he also put it down to the lack of c-peptide. I'll see if I can track it down and post it for you if you like?

Is it still in animal insulins?

 

[Patch]

I've recenbtly had a C-Peptide test. The result was 18!!!

That's high - but I still don't know what that means...

 

[robert72]

I seem to recall hearing an interview with a Joslin medalist called Richard who said he never had complications until he was put on modern insulin and he also put it down to the lack of c-peptide. I'll see if I can track it down and post it for you if you like?

Is it still in animal insulins?

I am sure that I read a while back that is was purified out of animal insulins

 

[paul-1976]

I've recenbtly had a C-Peptide test. The result was 18!!!

That's high - but I still don't know what that means...

At a guess it sounds like your body is making lot's of it's own insulin but you're just very resistant to it.

 

[Indy51]

If anyone's interested, here's the interview link: http://www.tudiabetes.org/forum/topics/live-interview-with-tom-and-richard-ask-an-old-timer

 

[Dillinger]

I've recenbtly had a C-Peptide test. The result was 18!!!

That's high - but I still don't know what that means...

You lucky bleeder...

Well, the C-Peptide test is a way of testing what sort of diabetic you are; if you have none or very little the implication is that you are Type 1 whereas if you have elevated levels the implication is that you are Type 2 because your pancreas is still producing insulin (and c-peptide) but in higher amounts which is the classic insulin insensitivity problem that Type 2's have.

@smidge - that's a good point about the complications we share with our Type 2 brothers and sisters, I don't really have an answer to that; maybe something similar is happening with the c-peptide and the insulin whereby Type 2's bodies become insensitised to c-peptide?

Best

Dillinger

 

[robert72]

Request for information forwarded to Drug Safety and Information
Department, Wockhardt UK Limited (incorporating CP Pharmaceuticals Limited
and The Wallis Laboratory Limited)
Enquiry: Received: 07.06.2010
Response date: 07.06.2010
*
Wockhardt UK Limited's Hypurin Insulins are highly purified. The complex
processing removes any traces of C-peptide that may be present to extremely
low levels.*

from:
http://www.tudiabetes.org/forum/topics/porcupine-insulin-in-canada-you-can-get-some-too

 

[noblehead]

Wockhardt UK Limited's Hypurin Insulins are highly purified. The complex
processing removes any traces of C-peptide that may be present to extremely
low levels.*

But present nonetheless Rob. When researchers were studying the Joslin 50 (who were complication free) it was found that they were still producing small amount of insulin despite their longevity ....thus still producing C-peptide, obviously it was in small quantities but possibly enough to prevent long-term complications they think.

 

[phoenix]

Podcast here:
http://www.alliesvoice.com/2013/01/16/c-peptide-the-oasis-in-the-diabetes-desert/

There is a bit about T2 , C peptide and complications

 

[Dillinger]

So further to Phoenix's post this is a company working on a long acting c-peptide therapy, and it looks like they are in the middle of trials now with what they describe as "fast track status" from the FDA for this. Perhaps my shouting at the medical establishment was premature...

http://www.cebix.com/

Best

Dillinger

 

[phoenix]

The trouble with these small companies is that they don't have the capital to develop their ideas past initial trials.
There is also this one which has the same researcher at the helm http://www.creativepeptides.se/science.html
But it's not just small pharma, how about DUK ?

 

[robert72]

The trouble with these small companies is that they don't have the capital to develop their ideas past initial trials.
There is also this one which has the same researcher at the helm http://www.creativepeptides.se/science.html
But it's not just small pharma, how about DUK ?

In the podcast it said that creative peptides moved from Sweden to California to become cebix

 

[phoenix]

Blame my OH for talking in that bit!

 

[SamJB]

Fascinating stuff. I guarantee that the big pharma companies will be on to this. There is plenty of profit to be made from this.

 

[jodysd6]

I seem to recall hearing an interview with a Joslin medalist called Richard who said he never had complications until he was put on modern insulin and he also put it down to the lack of c-peptide. I'll see if I can track it down and post it for you if you like?

Is it still in animal insulins?

As an aside Richard is a very lovely gentleman and has also written a book about his 65+ years of living with type 1 which is well worth a read. He is a genuinely nice chap and very modest about how well he has done over the years, when you think about how diabetes was treated when he was first diagnosed compared to in the last few years it really does show that there are probably a host of other things going on that determine who gets complications and who doesn't.

 

[Indy51]

He also posts at another UK forum and has quite a long blog about his experiences at that forum. Very modest man and still trying to help as many newly diagnosed children and their parents as he can.

 

[Patch]

Guys - seeing as my C-Peptide is currently at 18, would you expect a Diabetic Specialist to suggest/prescribe a Basal & Bolus Insulin Regime???

 

[paul-1976]

Guys - seeing as my C-Peptide is currently at 18, would you expect a Diabetic Specialist to suggest/prescribe a Basal & Bolus Insulin Regime???

What was your most recent HbA1c level like Patch?