Fewer sheep and cows as controversial EU farm subsidies are phased out

[Mbaker]

It is coming to pass that those of us who have found that meat, dairy and fish are essential for blood glucose control, insulin and health will find that the "medicine" will soon get more expensive, post Brexit, and as some wish is on the road to being abolished.

There it is in black and white in the 2nd paragraph of the headlines.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55102891

I would like to have my rights, those of my family, friends and fellow Brits respected, rather than ripped away. I knew this type of moment was coming, as the anti-meat sentiments have been upped for years, with only world events slowing the objectives of the detractors.

I have just off of the phone from a regional representative of the National Farmer's Union (this person is high up enough to make a dent at the very least). He allowed me 15 minutes of unscheduled presentation and would like further information. We went through what animal foods do for resolving diabetes, compared to other foods. He wants me to send him an email, and I need at least another 5 who would be willing to be referenced - if you would do this please pm me.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I did read the article and of course I'd be concerned if we had less access to meat, fish and eggs but can't see why this is so?
The CAP will be replaced by a different set of hoops through which farmers will have to jump to get their subsidies. I understand their anxiety given it is their incomes being threatened and the government hasn't exactly got a stunning record of competently delivering its stated policy but this is rather fear mongering of the BBC in my opinion and why would our drugs be threatened?
The PM is playing to the global green agenda plus the incoming President and North London vegan eco warriors etc. Doesn't mean anything will change very much given that we always need cheap food for political reasons (Bread and Circuses) and will still be able to import it.

 

[Mbaker]

I did read the article and of course I'd be concerned if we had less access to meat, fish and eggs but can't see why this is so?
The CAP will be replaced by a different set of hoops through which farmers will have to jump to get their subsidies. I understand their anxiety given it is their incomes being threatened and the government hasn't exactly got a stunning record of competently delivering its stated policy but this is rather fear mongering of the BBC in my opinion and why would our drugs be threatened?
The PM is playing to the global green agenda plus the incoming President and North London vegan eco warriors etc. Doesn't mean anything will change very much given that we always need cheap food for political reasons (Bread and Circuses) and will still be able to import it.

I would so hope you are more right than me. My concern stems from the lead up events to these implementations and the sustained assault from multiple directions to soften us up, there was another eggs are bad study within the last week. The public believe red meat is bad (one of the best marketing campaigns ever), we have been convinced that items such as peas which were accompaniments when I was a child, should be concentrated as a protein and that corn feed chickens are good for you.

Why would the UK require less sheep and cows after Brexit, imagine the boost to the internal market (lt alone health), if this was reversed. It is either they believe these animals are a net destruction, the persons making the decisions are ideologically driven (a bit like IARC) or they haven't heard or rejected for example the Savory version of regenerative agriculture. I am going to read the official document tomorrow (attached)

The Governments aim is to remove subsidies entirely, so meat will be a luxury item naturally, whilst the garden of Eden ingredients or there products will remain cheap and either locally made or imported. I will be doing my bit, so that I have a clear conscience. I have a son and 2 teenage young ladies, I would like hopefully some grand children who have natural food as an option (and a right) as opposed to printing a so called meal in the same way as a document - this technology exists now (demonstrated on click).

 

[MrsA2]

If more non-diabetics turn to other sources of food, that will leave more of the meat, fish and eggs for us surely? I think we should promote vegetarianism and lots of pasta and rice eating among the 'metabolically normal' and keep the good stuff for ourselves

 

[Mbaker]

If more non-diabetics turn to other sources of food, that will leave more of the meat, fish and eggs for us surely? I think we should promote vegetarianism and lots of pasta and rice eating among the 'metabolically normal' and keep the good stuff for ourselves

If we track with the USA, only around 12% are metabolically well. Many are walking around thinking they are ok, but like my best friends sister, there's are potential shock when routine tests are taken (in her case full blown T2).

I will be happy when all UK citizens (and then wider) have both sides on the picture on meat, diary and fish, without religion, ideology, misleading stats and the like getting in the way. Consumption will then find its rightful level guilt free. Could everyone buy a version of the Sacred Cow, I am listening to the audible version. This is the best response to every meat is this or that ever, climate change, regenerative agriculture, so much and then some. A stunning piece of work. They have sent an email asking for feedback, I will be asking them to open source asap - this is on a par with the Big Fat Surprise, and I believe good enough at any evidence level. The only thing they miss out is a closer examination of how well it does with diabetes management, although the do talk about the underlying cousin of Type 2 IR / Metabolic Syndrome.

 

[Resurgam]

I have a tiny amount of garden and if things get bad with the supply of meat I plan to raise quail. I did think of rabbits - but would not be able to kill them. Quail however are very dim and it is difficult to think of them as individuals. They are, however, easy to rear and keep and they make no noise so they are an ideal option.

 

[Mbaker]

I doubt this is coincidental (Guardian 02.12.2020):

I will not be sharpening my cutlery for this.

 

[MrsA2]

I doubt this is coincidental (Guardian 02.12.2020):

View attachment 45901

I will not be sharpening my cutlery for this.

That report frightened me.
But attitudes to vegetarianism in Asia are different. We were travelling in Cambodia with a vegetarian who was often taken to another restaurant where the owners went to great lengths to make everything look like meat, even tho it was the dislike of eating neat that made her vegetarian in the first place.
I am frightened lab grown food, including meat, it here to stay

 

[Mbaker]

Thanks

That report frightened me.
But attitudes to vegetarianism in Asia are different. We were travelling in Cambodia with a vegetarian who was often taken to another restaurant where the owners went to great lengths to make everything look like meat, even tho it was the dislike of eating neat that made her vegetarian in the first place.
I am frightened lab grown food, including meat, it here to stay

I think your response is correct. I am frightened for the choices my children may have foisted on them. The danger is legislation, this forces producers to comply with top down rules.

Those of us who care only need to be lucky once to make a significant change, e.g. KSI has more of a following than any mp, boy band etc (around 5 million), he did low carb to get in shape for one of his fights....imagine if he were to assist in getting the word out; he's on on the TV programmes knows other big wigs with millions of followers (some of us are working on strategies in trying to connect, we already have a world champion and the ear of a sprint champ and a route to a prominent person on TV now) It is about timing and making sure we make use of the resources for maximum impact.

The others have shot their bolt over the last 50 years and sown the seed of making meat scary and dirty, so the only way is up from here as meat is on the floor. I am banking on the alternative facts about meat, eggs, dairy, fish glucose / insulin getting mainstream. There's no need to embellish, the facts are out there. I think it is a serious miscalculation to say to farmers we are going to cut your money if you do not replace some of your sheep and cows with fallow land. I think in the context of Brexit if meat is rehabilitated via truth, a message can be sold that farmers should increase meat production using carbon sequestration regenerative measures, whilst at the same time improving run off, soil quality and thereby vegetables. With the final part of the puzzle to thwart the push from the centre, by providing the means for farmers to sell more easily to the public - these types of systems are being worked on.

 

[Oldvatr]

This may be of interest
https://www.dezeen.com/2019/05/24/floating-farm-rotterdam-climate-change-cows-dairy/
There are similar ventures being developed where the waste products are digested on-site to produce methane and ammonia, which in turn power the electrical systems. Contrary to what the ecowarriors claim, cows do not eat soya in any significant quantity as it is extremely harmful to ruminants.

There is an oil tanker at sea that uses ammonia as fuel too.
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/marine-sector-looks-to-ammonia-to-decarbonize-shipping

In the news today, The UK will have to reduce all greenhouse gases by 75% by 2030 in order to meet the Paris Accord according to WHO scientists. The scientists backing Extinction Rebellion are demanding 100% by 2025 at the latest. Boris will need to tackle the subject of cow farts with some urgency it seems. He is due to make a new announcement tomorrow with his new Green Plan.
https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2019/02/households-fight-greenhouse-gas-emissions
I think it is aimed at the home boiler issue, but expect cows and sheep to feature somewhere in the spiel.

Edit to add an update: The rumor of yesterday (last para above) has now been officially adopted as UK GOV policy except that the cuts target is confirmed as only 68%. Agriculture is mentioned as one sector expected to be affected, but without any specific details yet. The boiler changeover to carbon neutral by 2030 or before is prime target, as are urban tractors (aka SUV's), sports cars, and marine shipping along with the usual suspects of diesel, aviation, urban traffic, and roads. A separate announcement also came out to shift more agricultural land over to peat cultivation, along with the proposed multi-million tree planting operation that passed into law last year. The Green lobby has expressed its disgust at how little this government is doing to achieve GHG targets.

 

[Mbaker]

By way of an update for those interested, we have the equivalent in football terms of David Beckham who has offered to assist some of us. Sorry I can't think of decent analogies to describe this person. So if were an eating establishment she would be the Ritz. I will PM those who responded with this persons name, you will know her.

Got to pull my finger out with a draft letter.

Thank you, you know who you are, for making the introduction. I shall strain every sinew to make the most of this opportunity.

 

[Beating-My-Betes]

I doubt this is coincidental (Guardian 02.12.2020):

View attachment 45901

I will not be sharpening my cutlery for this.

Why not?

 

[Mbaker]

Why not?

Great question, it is not easy to answer concisely in a context of meat is bad for the environment, rots in the colon, causes cancer, uses too much water, heme iron, TMAO, Neu5Gc, etc.

My shortened answer is, yes have factory meat-like products for those who want it, allow the rest of us to have the tried and tested original produce, with no barriers tariffs or penalties, no legislative workarounds to thwart our access, e.g. making grain production more lucrative by subsidy.

The world has tried the low fat high carb, exercise more experiment, based on no clinical evidence with hundreds of percent increases in diabesity and soaring health expenditure along with soil depletion. Prior to the experiment, all rates of non-communicable diseases were lower – that should end the experiment rather than re-imagining with even greater emphasis on newer food-like alternatives. If food outcomes were comparable to any high performing sports or business venture, they would go back to what worked previously rather than persisting with a busted flush.

I put my money on carbon neutral regenerative agriculture, over something made in a petri dish, by a person with a white coat on, we cannot reproduce what the energy from the sun gives and an animals rumen does - grass into an end product, which can provide me with the perfect balance of fat and protein, no tummy issues, etc.

Cows, sheep and chickens, should be rotated with vegetables, which produces the best nutrition, breeds biodiversity, removes parasites naturally, fertilises and builds the soil whilst reducing carbon:

Environment

• https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/blog/carbon-negative-grassfed-beef
• https://savory.global/holistic-management/ (13,275,413 hectares managed so far)

The above can work everywhere if the will is there, even the Maasi have adopted these methods to better look after their stock. This was not in What the Health or Game Changers - why.

Here is the total agriculture hit for UK (including plants, numbers might be for Britain) on the climate:

Either the above is lying or someone else is......

Solution: export "our" methods as above, to the countries which are less efficient, to improve the soil and run off. Ban bad practice, e.g. a cow should take 18 months to maturity, chickens should be pasture raised and able to support their own weight etc. Do not feed animals non species appropriate foods. Do not allow fake facts or representation e.g. organic, grass fed / finished should be easily interpreted to mean what the average person would expect, rather than slight of hand. For profit, should not trump for health or soil, and humans should not be embarrassed to choose a natural way to sustain themselves, whilst allowing for alternative thinking to a point (I think we need to be careful with making choices for children).

 

[Oldvatr]

It is coming to pass that those of us who have found that meat, dairy and fish are essential for blood glucose control, insulin and health will find that the "medicine" will soon get more expensive, post Brexit, and as some wish is on the road to being abolished.

There it is in black and white in the 2nd paragraph of the headlines.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55102891

I would like to have my rights, those of my family, friends and fellow Brits respected, rather than ripped away. I knew this type of moment was coming, as the anti-meat sentiments have been upped for years, with only world events slowing the objectives of the detractors.

I have just off of the phone from a regional representative of the National Farmer's Union (this person is high up enough to make a dent at the very least). He allowed me 15 minutes of unscheduled presentation and would like further information. We went through what animal foods do for resolving diabetes, compared to other foods. He wants me to send him an email, and I need at least another 5 who would be willing to be referenced - if you would do this please pm me.

Happy to help if I can. PM me or email me on my email which I provided you last year on a similar matter. I am not wishing to reveal my identifying info on an open forum. I have had a computer crash which lost all my contact list entries, so cannot email you myself, but would be happy to use that as a comms channel if it helps in swapping files etc.

 

[Beating-My-Betes]

Great question, it is not easy to answer concisely in a context of meat is bad for the environment, rots in the colon, causes cancer, uses too much water, heme iron, TMAO, Neu5Gc, etc.

My shortened answer is, yes have factory meat-like products for those who want it, allow the rest of us to have the tried and tested original produce, with no barriers tariffs or penalties, no legislative workarounds to thwart our access, e.g. making grain production more lucrative by subsidy.

The world has tried the low fat high carb, exercise more experiment, based on no clinical evidence with hundreds of percent increases in diabesity and soaring health expenditure along with soil depletion. Prior to the experiment, all rates of non-communicable diseases were lower – that should end the experiment rather than re-imagining with even greater emphasis on newer food-like alternatives. If food outcomes were comparable to any high performing sports or business venture, they would go back to what worked previously rather than persisting with a busted flush.

I put my money on carbon neutral regenerative agriculture, over something made in a petri dish, by a person with a white coat on, we cannot reproduce what the energy from the sun gives and an animals rumen does - grass into an end product, which can provide me with the perfect balance of fat and protein, no tummy issues, etc.

Cows, sheep and chickens, should be rotated with vegetables, which produces the best nutrition, breeds biodiversity, removes parasites naturally, fertilises and builds the soil whilst reducing carbon:

Environment

• https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/blog/carbon-negative-grassfed-beef
• https://savory.global/holistic-management/ (13,275,413 hectares managed so far)

The above can work everywhere if the will is there, even the Maasi have adopted these methods to better look after their stock. This was not in What the Health or Game Changers - why.

Here is the total agriculture hit for UK (including plants, numbers might be for Britain) on the climate:
View attachment 46813

Either the above is lying or someone else is......

Solution: export "our" methods as above, to the countries which are less efficient, to improve the soil and run off. Ban bad practice, e.g. a cow should take 18 months to maturity, chickens should be pasture raised and able to support their own weight etc. Do not feed animals non species appropriate foods. Do not allow fake facts or representation e.g. organic, grass fed / finished should be easily interpreted to mean what the average person would expect, rather than slight of hand. For profit, should not trump for health or soil, and humans should not be embarrassed to choose a natural way to sustain themselves, whilst allowing for alternative thinking to a point (I think we need to be careful with making choices for children).

Thanks for the thorough answer. Will take me a little bit to collect my thoughts, not least because I'm currently on the second day of my juice-fast

 

[Oldvatr]

What concerns me about the fake meat products is that they are nutritionally deficient compared to the-real thing. Vegetable protein only has even-length chain amino acids, and cannot supply several essential ones. The vegetable products are missing vitamin B12, but can use microbial B12 substitute that is not bioavailable for humans, Similarly B6 and folate are low or not easily metabolised. The D3 vitamin is the vegetable variant and difficult for humans to assimilate (EPA/DHA). Fake meat products lack L Carnitine, choline, and other essential nutrients for cell repair and autophagy. The Vitiamin A is beta carotene, and again is not readily useful to humans,

We can synthesise many of the missing compounds but at a cost. It uses more energy, and is a very inefficient process so we can make D3 from sunlight, but need vitamin K2 which is also only available from animal sources.

The Heme Iron in fake meat is a selling point, but is there for flavour and the photgraphs, but again is not in a form that we can use. vegans tend to be anaemic as a result since even their supplements are fake. Vegetarians do at least generally have access to animal products such as fish to make up for these deficiencies. Insects as food is being touted as a source for us, but again are totally deficient in useful nutrients. Spiders in a bun is not a replacement for a Big Mac.
http://www.planetscott.com/babes/nutrition.asp