Food Addiction and Diabetes?

[DCUKMod]

Thanks for your input @NicoleC1971 - It's always important to have varied views on any subject for balance and thought provocation.

In general terms, I hate labels, and I have written often that my styleeeee of diabetes could be called Doris (sorry any Dorises out there!) for all I care. Labels put people in boxes, and boxes can be restrictive and thwart progress. Personally, I care about an identified issue receiving the attention and care it deserves, rather than being awarded a label I can wear, or bear, depending on my view of the issue/label or both. I say all of that, and yet I do understand why labels are attributed.

Yes, in my time, as 4st 9lbs woman in her late 20s, I did exhibit some dreadful and fearful (not) eating habits, but that feels a lifetime ago, but I still recognise them as having been very harmful at the time. I have also stated that whilst that was an awful, awful time in my life (and for my family too), it also had a very large part in making me who I am as a person today. It took me years to fully recover from my ED (a somewhat odd variant of Anorexia, but then I'd never have a "typical" anything. Would I? ), but I am a stronger person this side of that particular rollercoaster ride. We are all the products (some choose to use victim) of our circumstances.

I don't view myself as a victim of anything, and I never have done, but I do know that I spent a lot of time really challenging why I felt as I did, and thinking I was only one doing so.

My treatment was overseas and rather different to anything I would likely have received had I been in the UK, and I count that as being a huge break, and likely the reason I am here today. Well, that and seeing the look in my late Father's eyes when he came into my room for the first time. My parents had travelled, essentially to say goodbye to me.

To be honest, I just found the honesty of a group of well educated, in the vast, vast majority non-diabetic people to be admirable, and I was pleasantly surprised to see one of our members there too. (I know there were several of our members attending that meeting).

I hope this thread continues in the vein it has gone so far, in terms of the honest and non-judgemental contributions being made.

Thanks everyone.

 

[lucylocket61]

I think the term "victim" means different things to different people. Always a problem when discussing things. Likewise "addict" can mean different things too.

I use the term victim in the sense that I didnt know about the potential for addiction, was encouraged to eat lots of carbs, and deliberately manipulated by the powers that be to continue on this path, with the scientific evidence of the dangers suppressed. If it were a drug it would not be licensed without a clear warning of the dangers of addiction and long term potential consequences. (I hope, not all drugs are given with the correct info)

I do not use the term "victim" to mean I am helpless to do anything with this knowledge now I know about it.

I use the term Carb Addict as a means of identifying to myself, and reminding myself of my carb intolerance and the dangerous slope i would be on if i go down it. I would do the same if i was lactose intolerant, or an alcoholic.

 

[kitedoc]

My steam driven Tablet gave me a photo of Jen and Charlotte but no video (I may try again using the dreaded iPad). Great sound, though, so I listened with interest to the facts such as the non existant research into T1 and food addiction and especially to the lady speaking near the end about about dignity and shame. I agree, it is a great piece.

Where is James Watt when you need him ??

 

[kitedoc]

Some points which i hope will give some perspective and context: off the top of my head:
1) we, the human race, are a product of the influences of our genetics and environment
2) we are all dependent on food in order to live, grow and develop
3) for optimal health we are taught that we need a certain amount of individually determined nutrition per time, including water
4) what is available to eat is determined by supply and distribution, season, climate and culture amongst other things
5) dietary advice in the past has not always been scientifically rigorous and has, in many instances, been biased and newer findings under-reported/quashed by the the most influential forces on the planet, Big Food and Big Pharma and those they sponsor, including at least one national dietitian regulatory body.
6) food distribution systems have influenced seasonal availability, freshness/staleness, composition of food and additives
7) pollution and lax regulation have affected the safety of foodstuffs and lobbying has enabled relaxing of some safety standards.
8) Big Food is only interested in profit and avoiding bad publicity.
9) advertising is used to influence food selection/choices without always providing adequate caution/risk advice/warnings
(most 'fine print' warnings are too small for most to read and usually only in maximum of 3 languages but mostly in one).
10) some beverages and foods have been shown to have dependency-forming ingredients or increase risk of obesity but this has only encouraged manufacturers or was known to them even as they continue to 'peddle' these goods.
11) only legislation has been successful, at least partly, in improving food safety, supplementing vitamin/mineral shortages in food, and in food content labelling - and in some cases has been resisted and implementation stalled by Big Food.
12) some of the fall out of the above has led to a plethora of diets and treatments of various types, some of which enhance Big Pharma and con artists and can lead to harm. Other responses have lead to approaches that work or been a more extreme reaction - which, whilst been found after examination to be safe, do require artificial supplements.
Dependence syndrome is a better word than addiction, I think. Addiction as a term has been sullied by the the negatively reported and widely used aspects of conditions such as drug, alcohol and other dependencies.
Food Dependence (syndrome) (or my name: Over-dependence): adapted by me from the medical classification, International Classification of Disease, 10th ed (ICD-10): 3 or more of (over > 1 month or repeatedly over , 1 month for 12 months)
1) strong desire or sense of compulsion to eat food (or certain food)
2) difficulty being able to control such desire or compulsion to eat food or certain food in terms of stopping, not starting, and amount/quantity of said food
3) symptoms of some form of withdrawal effect if a certain food has ceased being eaten, which is relieved by restarting that food or by eating some food similar to the said food.
4) evidence of tolerance - the ability to eat more of a certain food before the desired effects of doing so appear and which amounts may not be tolerated by individuals who usually do not eat that food.
5) relinquishing and neglect of of one's interests, preferences for other foods, responsibilities in order to spend more time in pursuit of acquiring and eating desired food despite adverse results such as financial stress, relationship problems etc
6) Persistence with the food eating behaviour and food intake despite problems with current health and predicted adverse effects on future health and well-being where the individual is informed of or would be expected to know and understand the seriousness and extent of the consequences of his/her continued behaviour.
This is medical language. I, looking at it as a health consumer, find I understand it best in terms of human behaviour.
There is no one right 'fix' or solution and the origins of such behaviour are complex.
My main revelation to share with you (from a writer called Stanton Peele) is that anyone who has 'fallen in love' may go through the very same behaviour patterns as someone who has Dependance Syndrome, (food or otherwise).
Dependence is part of our human nature. How we deal with it and prevent it causing us or others harm is what matters.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I firmly believe that food addictions are all around us, and are incredibly common within the population of people with diabetes, and the non-diabetic population too.

Very interesting talk, I had to look up the word "addicted" to see if we were on the same wavelength.

. . . . . physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects.

. . . . . enthusiastically devoted to a particular thing or activity.

I've been very lucky because my mother never gave us sugar in the first place because she hated it. Chocolate never became a "pacifier" because my mum was always saying that it was bad for my teeth and she didn't buy any. Same with cakes, so I've been very lucky.

The cl0sest to an addiction would have to be alcohol and even then I had loads of self impose restrictions. No driving for 12 hours, no lunchtime drinking at work, no drinking at social functions (stand back and watch others), I even gave my liver and kidneys a complete rest on holiday and sometime the months of January, just to prove I could stop for longer. Evidently that was a sure sign of alcoholism. Gave up all together 10 years ago, I just stopped.

It's interesting that I do hear people say things like "I deserve a drink", and my head says why use alcohol as a reward? I suppose it's all about mind over matter. There's still a few things I need to get my head round though.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I see the label "sugar addict" as empowering. it enables me to face the problem and also to identify that there is a problem at all. And releases me from guilt, but not from the responsibility to do something with this knowledge. i have been a "victim" of clever advertising, and a deliberate attempt by the food manufacturers to make us want more and more, in the sene of a predator stalking its prey, but I am not a victim now.

I see direct parallels with the tobacco industry in all this.

I think the difference is whether someone sees the term "sugar addict" as a reason justify and continue the behaviours, or whether, like me, someone sees the terms as enlightenment of what is actually happening, deliberately by manufacturers, to use us to make money, regardless of the damage it does, and using that knowledge to make decisions and take back control.

If people dont know their appetite and food choices are being control in a damaging way, how can they break free from it and take control back?

Its all about choice and knowledge = power.

some people may well choose to still eat sugar in excess, just like some people still drink too much regularly, or smoke. The difference now is that they are making a choice to continue with those behaviours, not being decieved anymore into not even realising there is a problem with it.


caveat: and there should be resources available for those who need help to choose to get free from this, unfortunately those resources seem negligible.

Do you not think that could be because of an "addiction" .. and also that the obesity is a symptom rather than a cause?
I was in the room during that talk and was to be honest completely amazed at the number of people who identified as being addicted.
Once you have identified an addiction it surely becomes far easier to do something about it?

Yes. People are drawn to processed carbs and their obesity is a symptom of that. I would just say they are eating food they love that does not love them back.
And yes there is a subset of people who are truly compelled to obsess about food in a way that ticks the addict boxes described and do need some therapy, like I did, to resolve some of their underlying thoughts and feelings about the role of food for them.
I would not want to be judgemental about either group and I do recall my shame and guilt when I had an eating disorder plus how little help there was until I got to university. Then I had a dawning awareness that the sweet stuff did not give me joy any more so things got easier from there.
From a public health point of view, I am thinking of the former group that does not have a clinical disorder but is sleepwalking into metabolic health issues. For me the change I'd like to see is changing our food environment to help people make better choices (taxes, banning the crazy family packs and BoG ofs etc.). I am normally inclined to be a libertarian but this aspect of government as standing up against Big Food/Pharma requires more beefing up IMO!

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Some points which i hope will give some perspective and context: off the top of my head:

We must be the only species that needs an instruction manual. Interesting thing about water - the software I use to track what I eat calculates that the vegetables I am presently consuming contain over 100% of the water that my body needs. I'll keep drinking the tea, coffee and Berocca though.

 

[lucylocket61]

I think taking the work 'addiction' out of the equation is doing a disservice to those of us for whom the addition is a real and ever present struggle. And minimizes both the power of the advertising, and the chemical reaction to it.

Maybe some are only 'dependent' on it, maybe not, but the struggle, including the psychological one, is real.

 

[Goonergal]

This is a very old thread, but it seems an appropriate place for a couple of links. Firstly to a programme on ITV tonight, 7.30pm, featuring Tom Watson: https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1387693238446968832?s=21

And secondly to this excellent podcast on sugar addiction, featuring Jen Unwin:

 

[oldgreymare]

This is a very old thread, but it seems an appropriate place for a couple of links. Firstly to a programme on ITV tonight, 7.30pm, featuring Tom Watson: https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1387693238446968832?s=21

And secondly to this excellent podcast on sugar addiction, featuring Jen Unwin:

Wow! This video podcast so resonates for me! Thank you for sharing.

 

[Goonergal]

Wow! This video podcast so resonates for me! Thank you for sharing.

If you’re on Clubhouse, Jen and Anna run a ‘room’ every Wednesday evening on the same topic. It’s great.

 

[oldgreymare]

If you’re on Clubhouse, Jen and Anna run a ‘room’ every Wednesday evening on the same topic. It’s great.

Sadly not yet on Clubhouse - think you need to be invited to join?

 

[MrsA2]

This is a very old thread, but it seems an appropriate place for a couple of links. Firstly to a programme on ITV tonight, 7.30pm, featuring Tom Watson: https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1387693238446968832?s=21

And secondly to this excellent podcast on sugar addiction, featuring Jen Unwin:

I've watched/listened to both now.
The TV programme was interesting in parts, but as usual too light in facts and data.

The podcast was worth a watch. I just got irritated that The volume was up for Anna and low for Jen so I had to be constantly changing it. I think I need to listen again to concentrate more on the content than the volume!

 

[Goonergal]

The podcast was worth a watch. I just got irritated that The volume was up for Anna and low for Jen so I had to be constantly changing it. I think I need to listen again to concentrate more on the content than the volume!

Ha! I didn’t notice that. I think Anna just has a louder voice!

 

[VashtiB]

Thanks @Goonergal for reinvigorating this thread. I am planning to watch the videos later. I find this discussion very helpful. I like @lucylocket61 would describe myself as a sugar/carb/food addict. I have found that like an alcoholic I can't stop. Going very low carb is easier for me than having more carbs. I stick to less than 10 grams a day but occasionally have up to 20 grams- those days I struggle more and yet even knowing this still do it. My behaviour makes no sense even to me. I had hoped my taste buds would change but unfortunately they haven't. I have made my peace with it with the help of artificial sweeteners. But if I have some peanut butter it needs to be tightly controlled and weighed or I would eat a lot more. Having only 10 grams to play with and still having cream in my coffee means I can only have a small amount.

I agree with @lucylocket61 that much depends on how you perceive or treat the words 'victim' or 'addict'. I don't see it as allowing myself to abrogate responsibility for myself but it allows me to realise that maybe my struggles are harder in relation to food than someone else's. It means I put rules around it and don't beat up on myself too much when I 'fail'. Food is a difficult addiction as you can't abstain or go cold turkey. I am cold turkey for sugar but my desire hasn't gone. I am close to cold turkey for carbs but still struggle from time to time.

I think it is important to be open about these struggles and to discuss them. When I was a newbie on this site some of the people discussing their struggles while being able to go low carb was helpful for me. It made me feel less alone. I really struggled with the idea of low carb and those people really helped. You may have guessed but @lucylocket61 was one of the people that really helped.

Thank you for this thread Goonergal I really appreciate it!

 

[lucylocket61]

Thanks @Goonergal for reinvigorating this thread. I am planning to watch the videos later. I find this discussion very helpful. I like @lucylocket61 would describe myself as a sugar/carb/food addict. I have found that like an alcoholic I can't stop. Going very low carb is easier for me than having more carbs. I stick to less than 10 grams a day but occasionally have up to 20 grams- those days I struggle more and yet even knowing this still do it. My behaviour makes no sense even to me. I had hoped my taste buds would change but unfortunately they haven't. I have made my peace with it with the help of artificial sweeteners. But if I have some peanut butter it needs to be tightly controlled and weighed or I would eat a lot more. Having only 10 grams to play with and still having cream in my coffee means I can only have a small amount.

I agree with @lucylocket61 that much depends on how you perceive or treat the words 'victim' or 'addict'. I don't see it as allowing myself to abrogate responsibility for myself but it allows me to realise that maybe my struggles are harder in relation to food than someone else's. It means I put rules around it and don't beat up on myself too much when I 'fail'. Food is a difficult addiction as you can't abstain or go cold turkey. I am cold turkey for sugar but my desire hasn't gone. I am close to cold turkey for carbs but still struggle from time to time.

I think it is important to be open about these struggles and to discuss them. When I was a newbie on this site some of the people discussing their struggles while being able to go low carb was helpful for me. It made me feel less alone. I really struggled with the idea of low carb and those people really helped. You may have guessed but @lucylocket61 was one of the people that really helped.

Thank you for this thread Goonergal I really appreciate it!

Thank you

If it helps, my psychological carb cravings went after about 2years, and the craving is manageable if triggered since, as I have the confidence to know I can hang on in there and they will pass.

Finding a hobby has helped a lot. A positive coping strategy to replace the negative one.