For any who still think LCHF is a fad ...

[sanguine]

I was alerted to this publication recently, published in 1917, pre-insulin and when diet control was all that there was

http://archive.org/stream/diabeticcookeryr00oppeiala#page/n9/mode/2up

Check out pages 12/13 and the food lists of what is good and what to avoid. Still as relevant today as it was nearly a century ago!

(Apologies if this has been posted before, but even so worth a bump anyway for new members).

 

[noblehead]

The cookery book has been mentioned on the forum before, I suppose in them days there was no alternatives and the outcome would often be grim

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Is this the Friday night fight thread?


I wish to query page 13, strictly forbidden - 16. Large onions

Great link. Enjoying reading it.

 

[Brunneria]

Anyone know what's 'aleuronat flour' is like?
Or even if it is still available?
(It's mentioned in the bread and cake section of the book)

I believe it is similar to bran flour, but of course I want to try it...

 

[donnellysdogs]

Theres details somewhere on internet of children being given lettuce and whiskey in hospital... Pre dating this I think...Gives their outcomes too..
Very sad..

 

[modesty007]

Anyone know what's 'aleuronat flour' is like?
Or even if it is still available?
(It's mentioned in the bread and cake section of the book)

I believe it is similar to bran flour, but of course I want to try it...

Found this "Aleuronat is the gluten flour made from the aleuron layer of the wheat kernel. According to recent analysis, it is starch free, and contains eighty percent, of digestible proteids. It is made in Germany"
I would stay very far away from this since I've been gluten-free more than 2 years.

 

[izzzi]

It is not that I think LCHF is a fad, it is just the impression that many believe LCHF is the only way forward for all diabetics.
I am sorry to think that your good message looks wrong.
If it is a Friday night fight, I say "lardy lardy di to high fat" and start to control fat.
Great interesting book.thanks @sanguine

 

[sally and james]

@sanguine Thanks for posting this link!
It serves as a useful reminder of our recent history: Remember the days (if you were born in the 1950's or earlier), when you had never heard of muesli, couscous and pasta (apart from spaghetti hoops), rice was served as "rice pudding", and you were taught not to eat between meals, or in the street. We were thin, or at least thinner, then and T2 was rare. And, in your parents' early childhood, breakfast cereals were a new thing. Then those of you who are very, very, very old indeed, may remember Sir Walter Raleigh bringing the first potato home. And some millennia before this, we didn't even have bread. Humanity has brought a lot of illness upon itself through over indulgence in carbs and is now compounding this by pouring drugs on top of the carbs.
I will now stand well back.
Sally

 

[phoenix]

The cookery book has been mentioned on the forum before, I suppose in them days there was no alternatives and the outcome would often be grim

It was certainly more pleasant than the starvation treatment that Allan introduced, for both T1 and T2 ( they knew there was a difference but not the reasons why and don't really distinguish) Outcomes for diabetes diagnosed at any age were not good. .
You could test for glucose in urine but it would have had to be a minimum of 10 to have been detected. The gold standard was to make glucose disappear from the urine. With T2 , diabetes wouldn't in any case, have been diagnosed until symptoms were evident and of course it would only have been the relatively wealthy who could have gone to a doctor in any case (it may have course have been a condition more prevalent in the relatively wealthy !)
( even fairly recent statistics for outcomes are dependent on at what stage people were diagnosed, anyone diagnosed before 1999 would have had a higher fasting glucose than is needed for diagnosis today)
Having lit the paper Sally, you may not have heard of pasta but the Italians had, the North Africans had heard of couscous , the Irish starved for lack of potatoes and if we are of English origin our 18th and 19th century ancestors rioted over the price of bread. They were all staples.

 

[sanguine]

it would only have been the relatively wealthy who could have gone to a doctor in any case

That applied to many conditions. Degree of dissemination of information and accessibility to help doesn't invalidate the fundamental approach though.

 

[douglas99]

It was certainly more pleasant than the starvation treatment that Allan introduced, for both T1 and T2 ( they knew there was a difference but not the reasons why and don't really distinguish) Outcomes for diabetes diagnosed at any age were not good. .
You could test for glucose in urine but it would have had to be a minimum of 10 to have been detected. The gold standard was to make glucose disappear from the urine. With T2 , diabetes wouldn't in any case, have been diagnosed until symptoms were evident and of course it would only have been the relatively wealthy who could have gone to a doctor in any case (it may have course have been a condition more prevalent in the relatively wealthy !)
( even fairly recent statistics for outcomes are dependent on at what stage people were diagnosed, anyone diagnosed before 1999 would have had a higher fasting glucose than is needed for diagnosis today)
Having lit the paper Sally, you may not have heard of pasta but the Italians had, the North Africans had heard of couscous , the Irish starved for lack of potatoes and if we are of English origin our 18th and 19th century ancestors rioted over the price of bread. They were all staples.

Grains were staples as far back as 8000BC or so, from the findings in caves.
Far back enough for me.

 

[cold ethyl]

I think carbs in various guises were staples in most diets - what has changed is their makeup and our lifestyles. No one drank gallons of fruit juice or fizzy pop or 500 a pop coffee milkshakes when I was growing up. We had meat and potatoes most days in some form with veg and no puddings or sugary yogurts- no deep crust pizzas, or noodles and chips. Yes the Italians ate pasta but not in the industrial quantities that we do, with recipes adopted from US immigrants in need of cheap food- I went to a proper Italian restaurant once and there was actually very little pasta on menu, with lost of salads and grilled meats and fish dishes.
Also we don't do anywhere near the levels of physical work that our parents and grandparents did so certainly don't need the big six carbs at every meal. My GG was a type 2 on insulin in the 50s and 60s and my mum can remember her dish of marbles that she used to carb count. I think we need to remember that medicine can only do so much and that we need to give our bodies a helping hand sometimes, though I am keeping my big onions.

 

[douglas99]

I remember the pints of orange juice delivered by the milk man,
If diabetes was purely a British problem, what you say would be true.
It's simply the fact overseas produce hit Britain when it could be transported easily. On a worldwide scale, everyone ate their own dishes, now we mix it up more.

 

[Brunneria]

I saw a documentary, fairly recently, talking about the life and diet of the average uk working class labourer/peasant, through history.

No Central heating, no car, no public transport until very recently. Walking to work, manual labour for long daylight hours, walking home. Chopping wood. Hauling water. Beating carpets. Cutting hay. Constant physical labour. Keeping warm through activity, since sitting by a fire was a rare luxury for the evening.

The documentary guesstimated the number of calories for that level of activity was in excess of 4,000 per day.

Carb laden staples would have been necessary fuel, and burned off much more quickly than nowadays with our sedentary lifestyles (sedentary in comparison, I mean).

 

[douglas99]

I saw a documentary, fairly recently, talking about the life and diet of the average uk working class labourer/peasant, through history.

No Central heating, no car, no public transport until very recently. Walking to work, manual labour for long daylight hours, walking home. Chopping wood. Hauling water. Beating carpets. Cutting hay. Constant physical labour. Keeping warm through activity, since sitting by a fire was a rare luxury for the evening.

The documentary guesstimated the number of calories for that level of activity was in excess of 4,000 per day.

Carb laden staples would have been necessary fuel, and usually burned off much more quickly than nowadays.

I agree with you.

Carbs have always been a staple throughout history.
It's giving up the exercise that is the problem.

 

[Kat100]

That applied to many conditions. Degree of dissemination of information and accessibility to help doesn't invalidate the fundamental approach though.

So many people died young ....disease was rife ...illness was not treated ....on going list ....the poor were desperate health was worse than it was today ....

 

[Robbity]

According to Wikipedia low carb diets were used as a treatment as early as 1797, and a very low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet was the standard treatment for diabetes throughout the 19th century. So it surely has to be the longest lasting fad diet ever, unless someone knows different???

I gladly abandoned onions of any size after discovering they were causing me bad migraines in the huge quantities my husband used in his cooking - thigh I've noticed recently he seems to have cut the volume down in his own meals. I didn't mind a little onion for flavouring, but it reached the point where I was searching for a bit of meat in the onion mass I was served up...

Robbity

 

[douglas99]

There was an interesting article on Tamworth, a couple of days ago.

It was the fattest place in Britain, with over 30% of the population obese.
After a major NHS investment, in exercise, (a similar program to the one I went on, with 12 weeks at a gym paid by the NHS), and cooking lessons, (and we know it's going to be NHS cooking lessons).
It's achieved a 10% reduction in the obese population, down to 27%, knocked Tamworth off the top spot, and a major success at preventing future problems.

Modern living, lack of exercise, and quick meals have a lot to answer for.

 

[douglas99]

According to Wikipedia low carb diets were used as a treatment as early as 1797, and a very low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet was the standard treatment for diabetes throughout the 19th century. So it surely has to be the longest lasting fad diet ever, unless someone knows different???

I gladly abandoned onions of any size after discovering they were causing me bad migraines in the huge quantities my husband used in his cooking - thigh I've noticed recently he seems to have cut the volume down in his own meals. I didn't mind a little onion for flavouring, but it reached the point where I was searching for a bit of meat in the onion mass I was served up...

Robbity

How did they test for diabetes in 1797?

 

[donnellysdogs]

In Wales some miners walked 2 hours to get to the coalmine to then go and do a full shift with another 2 hour walk home!! I think of these people and their conditions and lives every time I light the woodburner. Having found a disused mine when living there (that even the local old welsh miners never knew about) and where it was situated... It must have been a **** hard life...

I should have asked the older miners I knew there what their diet was, didn't think about it at the time.