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Four months of different kinds of fasting - plateaus

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by [email protected], Mar 20, 2020.

  1. D@n1el

    [email protected] Prediabetes · Active Member

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    I am about to complete 4 months of fasting, along with low carb diets.
    I've tried different kinds of fasting and different levels of low carb.

    I've started with eTRF 16:8, then 6 days a week of 16:8 and 24h fasting on the 7th day, then 24h fasting 3 days a week, then 22h fasting 7 days a week.

    After that I've started to push it harder, 23h fasting normally and one 36h fasting per week. I'm now on a particular protocol which I 've learned from one of Jason Fung's books: 36h (or 42h) fasting three days a week, 12h (or 6h) fasting in-between days.

    I've also progressively tried different levels of low carb. First, less than 150g a day, then less than 100g, then less than 30g. Now, as I am thinner than I believe I should (BMI < 18.50), so I getting back to 50g. I've tried keto, I've tried carnivore. Honestly, I loved them all (perhaps carnivore was my favorite). Also, my favorite IF was eating just once a day, during about an hour, early in the morning, after training (resistance training and jogging). In such situation, you remember what is to feel truly hungry.

    I've been a little frustrated to see that somehow my body seems to get used to IF and low carb (if such thing exists), and BG eventually gets a little higher again. Not as it once was (when eating was like being at an amusement park), but enough to bring me back to prediabetic levels. Then I go to the next deeper level of fasting and after a while BG goes down again, to levels like even 75 mg/dL. For a week or two. Only to eventually see BG getting back again to prediabetic levels.

    Perhaps I am little pessimistic now and even the way I describe it might be pessimistic. I am on a plateau again. I had a fantastic week with average 79 mg/dL!!! Then two weeks ago I've got a mild cold, my BG got back to the 110 mg/dL levels. Within 5 days I had no symptoms anymore (that means cured? I don't now), but still today (two weeks after the cold) my BG is systematically over 100. All that with three 36 hour fasting per week!!! Other issue I am facing now is there is no much weight for me to lose (BMI < 18.50), so I had to go back to moderately low carb (about 50g net carbs a day now), I've also raised a bit of protein and a lot of fat.

    Just trying to understand all that.
     
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  2. OrsonKartt

    OrsonKartt Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm finding much the same. I'm about the same BMI as you , tall skinny bloke. My fasting levels used to be 5.5 and lower, sometimes in the 4's and after a serious work out could be in the high 3's ....now despite less carbs , ( at the mo around 10 grams per day) and more weight bearing exercise on top of the 5 mile walk my usual morning readings are 6 + . My lowest readings in the day are 5.5 .
     
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  3. D@n1el

    [email protected] Prediabetes · Active Member

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    Well, I have an update on my last fasting plateau. Hope it helps someone.
    I've bought a kitchen scale, and from that day on my BG raised. Only now I see it.
    It happens that my estimation of cheese weight, meat weight and other food rich in protein was far below reality. As I've started to use the scale, 100g of chicken was really 100g of chicken (not 70g or below). So my intake of protein got too high for my weight (60 kg), some days I was eating 120g of protein. Before the scale that would not bring me any problems, because in fact it was 100g or maybe 90g...
    Incredible!
    Now I'm keeping protein at 90g/day or lower. Today is the 4th day in which my fasting BG is below 90mg/dL. I hope I've found the problem. Too much protein.
     
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  4. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not unexpected in those who don't have much stored fat for their body to draw from. Same happens to me but to a far lesser extent than it once did. Gluconeogenesis (making new glucose) is largely energy demand driven. but many don't appreciate that for those who are already very slim and whose body doesn't want to give up what little fat they do have, there is a demand for energy. And the body will turn protein into glucose in order to get it.

    Your findings are consistent with my own @ ~65kg.
     
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  5. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Have either of you tried the Libre or another form of constant monitoring?

    I know if I go for a period of fasting (that's rarely), my numbers don't go as low as they can at other times, but in the other hand, they are almost flat-lining.

    @[email protected] - You talk about your numbers going "back to prediabetic". Is that proven by a blood draw or concluded because of the numbers you observe on finger prick testing?
     
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  6. D@n1el

    [email protected] Prediabetes · Active Member

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    Thank you very much for your reply and the aspects you mentioned on it, @DCUKMod

    I've never tried the Libre or other kinds of constant monitoring.

    All my numbers are concluded from finger prick testing (I use One Day Touch Select Plus, have 2 units, so when I get weird results I double check it). Yet, in many circumstances, I measure my blood as much as 8 times a day.

    From those readings during the same day, I guess I could see sometimes a somewhat flat pattern, but usually I seem to get a different shape: perhaps a not so bad 2-hour curve after meal, but a very lazy curve after that. Lazy enough to make me start the next day with numbers compatible with prediabetes.

    Not a perfect example (because it has no fasting BG>99, which happened on other occasions), but on March 23 I started the day with 98mg/dL (7am). Before breaking the 24-hour fast, at 4h37pm, I had 105 mg/dL, Then I had a single meal (OMAD) with 24g net carbs (35g carbs). 30 minutes after finishing it I've got 126 mg/dL (6h46pm), 60 minutes 149 mg/dL (7h15pm), 90 minutes 111 mg/dL (7h45pm), 120 minutes 110 mg/dL (8h15pm). Not such a bad curve, is it? BG starts to give up only on the second half of the 2-hour period (I've read that best is when you start to see it falling before 90 minutes). Before bed, at 11pm, it was 112 mg/dL, so my BG didn't go down at all, after those many hours! This is not unusual in my case. After the 2-hour period it falls very slowly or even does not fall at all. When it falls slowly, I might get 90mg/dL the next morning, but when it does not fall at all I will wake up and get 110mg/dL or 113mg/dL. I guess I do have a lazy curve after the 2-hour period, that's it, but I am nearly sure right now that when it nearly just does not fall at all, too much protein is behind it.

    I do think that my problem was not low carb (I try to stay below or at 30g of net carbs), it was too much protein. After buying the scale, my excel diet sheet had more or less the same grams of protein every day, but now 110g of protein is really 110g, not 70g (my estimation of meat and cheese weight was rather poor).

    After eating every day measured 90g (or less) of protein, I am on my fifth day with fasting BG below 87 mg/dL.

    Though I've started this topic describing issues with fasting and low carb, I would like to say that I enjoy both.
     
  7. OrsonKartt

    OrsonKartt Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  8. OrsonKartt

    OrsonKartt Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  9. D@n1el

    [email protected] Prediabetes · Active Member

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    One thing that I'd guess @OrsonKartt and @Jim Lahey perhaps face (or faced), I certainly do, is trying to push things a bit in order to put on some weight.

    My last fasting/low carb BG "plateau" (bad term I chose), now it seems, was mainly because of too much protein. And why did I consume a lot or protein? I was (am) trying to build some mass, gaining a little bit of (healthy) weight.

    Before Covid-19 I went to the gym 5 days a week and practiced jogging 3 days a week. I've read many times that whoever wants to build some mass should eat between 1.5g/kg and 2g/kg of protein per day.

    In my case, apparently, if I get more than 1.5g/kg protein per day, BG goes bad (and I am taking as parameter my weight today, 60kg, BMI = 18,72, 10kg below the weight I had in November)
     
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  10. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I lift weights to stay toned but I’m not fussed about gaining weight or ‘mass’. I trust my appetite to keep me at my biological norm. I’ve always been slim and have never been able to gain much weight at any stage in my life, so I’m not about to start trying now. Appetite is king. If my body wants more energy it will tell me.

    That’s my outlook anyway.
     
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