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HBA1C increase after switching to Cyclical Keto...

Discussion in 'Ketogenic diet forum' started by JBASS, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Hi all,

    I thought I'd post my recent observations and self experiment.

    April 2016 diagnosed with T2 with an HBA1C of 63. Weight was 68KG with 19% bodyfat. Now my weight is 67KG with 11% body fat.

    After following SKD combined with 3x full body weightlifting/powerlifiting sessions per week for approx 3 years, with good control, I decided to switch to CKD (5 days Keto/2 days carb up with complex carbs) in an attempt to increase muscle mass. My weightlifting programme has progressed considerably averaging 50-60 tonnes of weekly volume, and have increased muscle mass and reduced body fat to 11%. I stopped measuring blood glucose.

    However, my recent HBA1C put me back into the T2 zone despite keeping the carbs clean and organic (organic oats, rice, Schneiderbrot, beans, lentils etc) on my 2 day carb-up. So, I'm heading back to strict keto...I will ask doc to carry out additional tests, to check cortisol, testosterone and insulin to try and get a deeper analysis.......frustrating, but back to strict Keto and finger pricking and lets see what the next HBA1C reveals.....I am also going to reduce the weightlifting volume and switch from 3 days per week to 6 whilst increasing intensity.....maybe glycogen stores are not being used up on my rest days.....

    This seems to also highlight, that despite eating the cleanest complex carbs I could find, they still seem cause a problem.


    HBA1C history:

    Sep 2019 - 51 (After approx 3 months CKD)
    Feb 2019 - 42
    Jul 2018 - 44
    Aug 2017 - 43
    Feb 2017 - 41
    Sep 2016 - 40
    Jul 2016 - 44 (Keto./strength training)
    Apr 2016 - 63 (T2 Diagnosis)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Looks to support the "you can't out exercise a bad diet"mantra..?
    I also seriously doubt that "organic" carbs are any better than non organic carbs..
    You could give carnivory a try and see if that helps?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    As you have learnt a carb is a carb regards of type, and we Type 2s can’t deal with them. Also if you had kept checking your blood sugars you’d have seen that sooner than waiting for your next HbA1c.
    A new start is needed I guess, I can’t advise about weight lifting etc... but consistent low carb eating and blood sugar testing should get your HbA1c back under control.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    I get what your saying totally, which is how I felt when numbers were great on SKD. Just highlights how bad the "healthy" food can be. The standard advice given to a T2 newbie seems very dangerous.

    PS - I have never taken any drugs for diabetes.
     
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  5. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Complex carbohydrates just take longer to be deconstructed into simple glucose, but they are still chains of sugars. The overall burden to the body is the same. Fibre complicates that argument, but nevertheless, personally I feel that the whole 'complex carbs' being clean thing is a mostly a bit of a myth as far as glucose dysregulation goes. Certainly it never made a blind bit of difference to me when I was still eating carbohydrate.
     
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  6. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Yes, it does seem to confirm the myth status.
     
  7. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    You can see how stable your A1c history is until the change and new measurement. I think that kinda tells you everything you need to know.
     
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  8. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Thank you for telling me off re blood sugars...lol.....test strips ordered! I was finding it hard to build muscle mass, which made me think I was depleting my glycogen stores....obviously not. It could be that I was fat adapted already, liver was producing adequate glucose.....no need to "replenish".
     
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  9. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Yep. I guess the experiment has a solid conclusion. However.....the cortisol element is intriguing to me....stress has been huge recently...
     
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  10. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    I didn’t want to come across all ‘head teacherish’! :shy: However I have found testing to be the key, it’s just such a shame the NHS don’t recognise this and give us strips on prescription.
     
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  11. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    Def doesn't help things at all. I don't know when you are eating rice and oats etc, but being they spike blood glucose and weight training often does as well. If you were eating those before training sessions or close to, then I'd imagine the spike may well be magnified?
     
  12. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Training Sunday/Tues/Thurs
    Keto Sunday-Thurs
    Carb up Fri/Sat
     
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  13. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Haha! No problem! Yeah, strips are a killer in cost....I use a Accucheck Aviva....about £23 for 50 strips on Amazon and £30 at Boots!!! I like the idea of the Freestyle Libre but closed the webpage when I saw costs...
     
  14. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    Here’s some info on more affordable testing kit, some people have phoned Spirit Health Care saying their products had been recommended and they’ve got the meter for free, worth a try!
    To be clear I have no commercial connections with any of the companies mentioned. For a meter with cheap strips go for the Tee2 + found here:

    http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-plus-blood-glucose-meter/ with the strips found here:

    http://spirit-healthcare.co.uk/product/tee2-testing-strips/


    With more expensive strips is the Caresens Dual which I currently use, this one has the advantage of glucose and ketone testing in one machine, it’s to be found here:

    https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/collections/caresens-dual


    And to be totally transparent I used to use the SD Code Free which has the cheapest strips available. However I found itto be becoming less and less reliable. Here it is for anyone wanting to give it a go:

    http://homehealth-uk.com/product-category/blood-glucose/blood-glucose-monitor/

    and here for the extra strips

    http://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/sd-codefree-test-strips-to-be-used-only-with-the-sd-monitor/

    There are discount codes if you buy in bulk.

    5 packs 264086

    10 packs 975833


    Don’t forget to check the box that you have diabetes so you can buy VAT free. (for all meters and strips)
     
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  15. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Great thank you! I do have the CareSens Dual too, but after comparing it to the Aviva, it almost always gives a reading 1mmol lower than the Aviva. :-(
     
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    SKD? Strict ketogenic diet?
     
  17. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    But which is right?! ;)
    I used to use the SD Code Free as I mentioned and it read about 0.3 - 0.5 higher. However for me as a type 2 absolute numbers are really not required as I’m not calculating insulin doses, I’m just looking for difference pre meal to post meal and general trends.
     
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  18. JBASS

    JBASS Type 2 · Member

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    Yes, strict/standard....under 30g carbs per day.
     
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Any fasting? Restricted eating window? I found that helps too.
     
  20. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    I have been using the Codefree meter for quite a while, and in the past did agonise over its suspected unreliablility and whether to buy a meter with more accurate (but dearer) strips. However over the past few months I have not had any problems with it, and when I have compared readings with the TEE2 they have come out more or less identical. I suspect reliability problems are linked to batches of strips rather than the meters themselves.

    @Rachox would it be a good idea to post your excellent and comprehensive info. on meters further down in the bg testing Forum as a sticky thread? Members could then be easily referred there. Incidentally there are 2 sticky threads under bg testing that are completely out of date and could perhaps be removed or at least un-stickied?
     
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