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Help with quitting smoking - no help with quitting carbs

CathyN

Well-Known Member
Messages
248
Location
dorset
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
prejudice, racism, complacency, ignorance
It seems to me that the NHS would never advise a smoker to continue smoking ( i.e doing something that is a direct threat to their health ) until the effects are beginning to manifest.... a smokers cough, hardening of the arteries, bronchitis, emphysema, thrombosis, stroke, lung and throat cancer etc.etc. On the contrary, millions of pounds are spent on advertising to educate smokers about the effects of the habit - quite rightly, help is available ..... not sure, but I bet patches and gum are available on prescription and I think that is a wonderful thing.

Diabetics (especially Type 2 who are attempting to control with diet and exercise), however, who face equally terrifying complications - which are not due to a choice ( like smoking ) but because they have a condition - are left in a no man's land of wait and see. We are officially advised to continue to eat foods that will increase our chances of complications arising with no means provided to monitor our progress. Where are the health warnings for diabetics on packets of white sugar, white bread and pasta? And I don't mean traffic light labelling, I mean a dedicated diabetic advice panel ( not everyone is able to winkle out the detail on packets ). Where is the help for us in quitting foods that will lead us head long into high blood sugar readings and compromised well being??

If the NHS recognises that smokers need official help to control their addiction in order to minimise their risks of serious disease and premature death, why doesn't it recognise that diabetics need access to strips and meters in order to do the same??

It seems that the addiction to tobacco and quitting of smoking is given much higher importance than the arrest of a condition that is NOT a choice for the millions of people who have it - and it's shocking.
 
The reason the NHS gives help to stop smoking is that it has been proved to cause COPD & cancer.

The reason the NHS doent give help to to stop eating carbs is that THERE IS NO REASON TO.

Hope that clears that up
 
Sid Bonkers said:
The reason the NHS gives help to stop smoking is that it has been proved to cause COPD & cancer.

The reason the NHS doent give help to to stop eating carbs is that THERE IS NO REASON TO.

Hope that clears that up
Click to expand...

No it doesn't clear that up. Carbs convert to sugar which in diabetics does not get processed correctly. Some diabetics can eat more carbs than others. But not all diabetics can eat carbs without them raising their blood sugar significantly.

There is plenty of reason to stop eating carbs in my case. My meter shows me the reasons after every meal I eat which has carbs included and if the NHS really wanted to do something about diabetes then it would ensure that tests were done on a regular basis which would, indeed, prove that eating carbs is dangerous to the majority of diabetics.
 

You should send that post to Patient Opinion - https://www.patientopinion.org.uk/ The website is there for people to share experiences and make suggestions. You've made lots of excellent suggestions above and you'd be surprised who reads websites like Patient Opinion. The food industry have people whose job it is to keep abreast of these things so why not give it a try?
 
Sorry Mr.Bonkers - I should have said "quitting some carbs" or "reducing carbs" and there are plenty of reasons to do that. That was my point - not the wholesale ditching of all carbohydrates. Just having it acknowledged by the NHS that too much can cause complications would be a step in the right direction. One of the women at the education clinic I attended still believed on the final session that white bread was ok. The NHS dietician had said so. If there was a guideline on the packet aimed at diabetics she might think twice about eating too much of it. Of course , she was only testing her blood sugar with urine sticks ... no positive readings until approx 10mmol/L - so a very vulnerable diabetic and possibly on course for trouble and future complications.

I wasn't having a go at smokers either. I just think it would be helpful to diabetics to have the same quality of help and info available to them.
 
CathyN

I found your post perfectly clear. It is obvious, by your context, that you were not talking about every single carb. There seems to be some blindness about the addictive nature of carbs. Some people, both in the medical profession and out of it, see a Carb as just a Carb.

But, for some of us, it isnt.

Its like alcohol. People insist on saying there is nothing wrong with drinking alcohol. And refuse to accept that, for some people, there is everything wrong with drinking alcohol.

I think that is what is happening both here on the forum, and in the wider field. Whenever anyone says they need help to stop eating carbs, then someone else comes along and says there is nothing wrong with carbs. But both statements are true depending on the persons individual reaction to carbs.

And just as some people can cut down on their drinking with no problems, some people can cut down on their carbs with no problems of withdrawal and addiction issues.

But some of us CANT

Initially, at least, we have to avoid carbs like the plague because they affect us like nicotine affects smokers and alcohol affects alcoholics, until the craving and addiction is manageable.

The fact that some people cant/wont recognise that is not our problem.

I agree that carb withdrawal help and support would be wonderful. Both in the medical setting and here on this board. Perhaps a thread where anyone saying we can have carbs would be treated the same as someone saying to give an alcoholic a drink or two. Understanding, tact, sympathy and positivity for the plight of those of us with this unfortunate reaction to carbs would be a step in the right direction.
 
Sid Bonkers said:
The reason the NHS gives help to stop smoking is that it has been proved to cause COPD & cancer.

The reason the NHS doent give help to to stop eating carbs is that THERE IS NO REASON TO.

Hope that clears that up
Click to expand...

Sid makes a couple of good points... one which he never intended to make and one which we in this community should be clearer about.

We all know that carbohydrates as a food source are not the enemy. The problem we our diets are refined carbs and the timing of our foods.... nature never provided for 365days of fruit and fruit juice. Its is very health but not all the time. Nature never provided for 365days of root vegetables but we eat them as if it were natural. Nature never intended for grains to be a major food source. Most animals have no ability to digest whole, uncracked grains. We need to put our food in context, eat it in appropriate quantities and eliminated the refined foods completely. That is the story that the NHS should be telling but isn't and won't because it gets its research information from private industry or firms paid by private industry.... the NHS only hears what the profit makers want them to hear.....

As for the NHS not giving help to people to stop eating carbs because their is no proven reason.... they sure do harp on a lot about Cholesterol..... got a proven connection Sid?

Kenny
 

I don't agree Kenny. My opinion is and has been for quite some time, carbs are poison to us. Yes, I have been hauled over the coals for that opinion, but carbs and grains are and will continue to be avoided in my diet.

By eating to my meter, I have learned I can eat all veg grown above ground, small amounts of root veg (celeriac and butternut squash mainly). I can eat up to a 60g serving of mixed berries. Meat, fish, poultry and dairy I can eat to my hearts content. When it comes to carbs and grains, it's a different story all together. I can manage around 50g of carbs SOME days, but 30-40 is more often my limit before my BG begins to rise. Anything containing grains makes me feel ill, and also pushes up my BG. So, for me, carbs and grains do me harm, hence MY reason for saying they are poison, to me they are, and I will continue to say that.
 

Ditto. I eat to my meter and it's the carbs and grains every time that send my BS shooting up. Not only has LCHF brought my blood sugar down, it's reduced my breathing and gastric problems that I've had for years. So I'd be silly to ignore those benefits of LCHF for me.

I realise it's not the same for everyone, but the point is EVERYONE is given the same dietary advice by the NHS - ie - EAT CARBS. That advice may not deteriorate or kill ALL diabetics but it might just be deteriorating and killing A LOT OF US UNNECESSARILY. I don't advocate low carbing for everyone, but for anyone who has consistently high BS who is NOT low carbing, I'd say 'give it a try and see what happens'.

I think the NHS should do the same. If their diet is NOT working for some people, rather than proceed with further meds and insulin why don't they recommend LCHF for a time and see what happens?
 
Defren said:
I don't agree Kenny. My opinion is and has been for quite some time, carbs are poison to us. Yes, I have been hauled over the coals for that opinion, but carbs and grains are and will continue to be avoided in my diet.
Click to expand...

I reread what I had posted and see the error in my presentation. Sid made a general statement about carbohydrates and my comment was meant to reference 'NHS general dietary guidelines' not diabetic guidelines. That is... for a person with normal body function carbs, as a general rule are not bad... they are part of a natural diet. It is the refined carbs, sugars and the over use of root vegetables that are harmful and lead to several metabolic disorders. And this is where I have dispute with Sid's statement. Of coarse you and Grace are 100% correct and I too abide by a pretty low carb diet as a diabetic. Once you have arrived at this place an even further restriction in carbs is required to self manage....

Just so you understand where I am coming from, I made this comment about peoples desire to pursue a low carb 'diet' in another thread:
"For me the word diet grates. Diet implys a short term solution that can be discarded at a future date. For someone who is not diabetic... or doesn't like large injections of insulin, this 'diet' is about eating foods that for all intents and purposes are poison. They are poison to the well-being of a diabetic and the are poison to the general population who constantly fight weight gains and a number of other metabolic syndrome symptoms."

While we are focusing on what we must do because we are here, I am upset about the advice that brought us to this place in our lives and Sids statement is exactly what brought us here.....

Sorry for the confusion.
Kenny :thumbup:
 

You hit the nail on the head ...'refined carbs, sugars and the over use of root vegetables that are harmful and lead to metabolic disorders.' I think the majority of people over decades, perhaps centuries, have become accustomed to using refined carbs and root veg to 'bulk out' their meals - and that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for us over time. Perhaps this overuse of a certain category of food doesn't show up any problems until several decades down the line when some of us end up with dicky insulin regulation. I'm from an Irish background and I have no doubt that for generations back, my maternal ancestors survived on spuds and carrots and some bacon rashers thrown in. What's that eventually done to my ability to break down the carbs a few generations down the line? My first encounter with mashed potatoes when I was a kid was to promptly throw up.
 

Sorry Kenny but I still don't fully agree. I believe had I known before what I know now about the damaging effect on the body carbohydrates has, and changed to either the diet I have now, or even one not quite so carb restrictive I would not have become diabetic. I firmly and absolutely believe that carbs and grains are one of if not the biggest cause of sickness in countries who consume the standard western diet. Heavy amounts of processed foods and a reliance on grains added to a distinct downturn in physical activity, are all in my view what has us in the position we are now. Even if the population had remained couch potato's but ate far less carbs and grains, I am certain we would not have this epidemic of diabetes patients. I know I am going to be called out on my view, but people can say what they wish - I truly believe this. I have read so much of the literature out there, it leads to only one place, no matter who the author or their cause (if they have one).

Carbohydrates slowly but surely kill people. I believe diabetics have an intolerance to carbs, hence why we become diabetic. There are so many illness' and conditions out there relating to food, all kinds of intolerance's that it's time the medical research fraternity stepped away from the big pharma's and did 100% independent testing of the effects of carbohydrates on people in general and also other tests on other foodstuffs like grains. I have a feeling the huge food companies will try to block suck tests at all costs!
 

Defren ... I can feel in your words how passonate you are about the carbs and grains issue and I'm 100% with you there. I believe it too and I believe it because my body has told me and it's been telling me for years. I think becomng diabetic is the body's last ditch attempt to give us a good old shake up where our diet is concerned and that's why it's happening en masse nowadays. I also believe we're less active now, not necessarily because of technology advances alone but because carbs make us sluggish rather than provide us with energy. I do believe we need carbs in order for us to assimilate protein and fats correctly, but we DON'T need the processed carbs that we tend to eat in the West.

Also, I thought Kenny was agreeing with that, not opposing it. :think:
 

I think I have done a terrible job of communicating my opinions and thoughts to you so I will try once more.

1.I believe that diabetics, if they are to take control of their numbers MUST remove grains, sugars and starches from their diets. They MAY find that they can tolerate some foods that are in those groups such as small amounts of fruit or potatoes but the can only find that out by testing.

2. I believe that diabetes is a component part of, what the original researcher call Syndrome X, later renamed to metabolic syndrome. all of the various components of metabolic syndrome I.E. high blood pressure, IBS, high cholesterol (particularly trigliseirides) and weight issues can be attributed directly to what we eat.

3. What we eat as a healthy person should include proteins, fats and carbohydrates. These food sources should be as close to naturally occurring and locally produced as possible. Processed 'foods' are not healthy and lead to various iterations of metabolic syndrome and should NEVER be part of a persons diet but naturally occurring, seasonally obtainable fruits and vegetables are healthy in proper moderation and in proportion to the intake of fats and proteins.

4. The food charts put out by organizations like the NHS do not reflect the harm caused by refined grains, sugars and starches... nor do they reflect the amount of these 'foods' hidden in other prepared foods... nor do they reflect the fact that these foods should be eaten in a seasonal manner because for example while fruit is quite a healthy food... fruit and fruit juice 365 days a year was never part of a natural diet. So the charts that the NHS uses is flawed for healthy people and it is totally inappropriate for people with diabetes. So while carbohydrates are a good, wholesome food, they are NOT as Sid professed... harmless if used in a manner consistent with NHS general dietary guidelines and is certainly inappropriate for a diabetic.

Hope that clears it up
Kenny :thumbup:
 
Heloo all I am persistent insomniac hence the hour :yawn: . With regard to quitting smoking I have smoked for 35 years still waiting to find out which type diabetes I am. I quit smoking tobacco about 2 months ago (but didnt quit nicotine). As a substitute for tobacco I spent some money on e cigarettes I use what is called e liquid which is plant based glycerine, unlike some companies who use constituent parts of antifreeze. This still gives me full satisfaction as if I had a cig but without the many chemical elements contained in tobacco I also spend only about one fifth of what I spent on tobacco, I have noticed a significant rise in my lung capacity and a wheezy cough I had has completely gone. You can tailor your nicotine input as there a many different strengths and flavours but I reccomend that you do not use the optional flavours as otherwise this turns it into a pleasure thing which gives the wrong message (the object is to quit not enjoy). If you are looking for a way temporary to get nicotine and gradually reduce your intake I do reccomend it.

I would like to say that it is not reccomended or supported by NHS the reason being it has not been long term tested or considered as NRT. In favour using plant based glycerine as the base for eliquid the only vapour given out is water with nicotine and there seems to be no dangers of secondhand smoke as it disperses quickly. There are many pubs and restaurants that will allow smoking of these on their premisis, but ultimately the decision is yours if you do make your goal to give up nicotine in near future as it is an addictive poison.

I hope this helps.

Simon aka Cobra3164
 

The only thing I don't agree with is

3. What we eat as a healthy person should include proteins, fats and carbohydrates.
Click to expand...

We don't NEED carbs at all, and the damage they do to diabetics, is the same damage they do to healthy people. Apart from that :thumbup: I agree.
 
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