High fat - saturated versus traditional 'healthy' fats

[Jo123]

I'm starting this thread to get more information about the above.
I'm a slim prediabetic so I low carb to maintain normal bg readings bit have to eat more fat to maintain a healthy (19.5) bmi.

When I first started low carbing I ate saturated fats and my ldl and trigs went up. This worried me so I now major on extra Virgin Olive oil, oily fish, nuts etc.

I Watch the videos promoting eating saturated fats with low carbing, but for every piece of research concluding sat fats are good there is a study with the opposite conclusion for example https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...s-raises-risk-early-death-large-harvard-study

I am not being antagonistic in any way with this post so please don't be defensive, I would love to eat double cream without guilt!!

 

[chalup]

I have been watching the keto summit which is over thirty interviews with leading scientists, doctors, and nutrition experts all around the world. One thing I heard more than once is that a low carb or ketogenic diet usually raises cholesterol at first and then it drops. All I know is after 6 months of low carb and definitely leaning more toward saturated fat, my cholesterol is dead on normal. I also have heard a lot lately that cholesterol numbers are generally meaningless and each persons good range is different. And finally that dietary fat does not create a cholesterol problem but that glucose from high carbs are converted into cholesterol in the liver. I am not making any claims here, just telling what I have been hearing in these summit videos. We have been hearing for decades that high cholesterol causes heart disease but we have also been hearing that sugar is harmless and a high carb diet is good for diabetics.

 

[4ratbags]

When I started LCHF my cholesterol went up but it has since levelled out.

 

[Jo123]

Thanks for your reply

I've heard similar about the cholesterol going up in the first six months, if I had access to blood tests on demand I would try increasing my sat fats for the months then retesting. My cholesterol was always perfect before I low carbed, my ldl is still higher than it was but my trigs have gone down (they increased when I did first low carb high fat).

But then if I am convinced by the research I shouldn't be bothered by high ldl, which I still am.

 

[Jo123]

When I started LCHF my cholesterol went up but it has since levelled out.

Thanks for your reply.
Did it just level out or decrease after a period of time?

 

[4ratbags]

Over a 3 month period, I g

 

[Pinkorchid]

I'm starting this thread to get more information about the above.
I'm a slim prediabetic so I low carb to maintain normal bg readings bit have to eat more fat to maintain a healthy (19.5) bmi.

When I first started low carbing I ate saturated fats and my ldl and trigs went up. This worried me so I now major on extra Virgin Olive oil, oily fish, nuts etc.

I Watch the videos promoting eating saturated fats with low carbing, but for every piece of research concluding sat fats are good there is a study with the opposite conclusion for example https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...s-raises-risk-early-death-large-harvard-study

I am not being antagonistic in any way with this post so please don't be defensive, I would love to eat double cream without guilt!!

Yes a lot here have found their cholesterol went up with higher saturated fat The more you see on the internet the more conflicting views you will get. If what you are doing now suits you.. and oils are fine..then stick with it nothing is set in stone we are all different and what suits one does not suit another so we all find our own best way

 

[catherinecherub]

This article is from a LC dietitian who found that she needed to adjust her diet because her cholesterol results needed improving.
http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com/blo...ery-low-carb-ketogenic-diet-my-own-experience

 

[Prem51]

Hi @Jo123 I'm quite interested in this too. Since eating more fats over the last 12 months my HDL of 1.2 (High Risk) has improved to 1.6 (optimal).
My triglycerides have gone down from 2.99 (High Risk) to 0.69 (normal).
My LDL has gone up from 2.1 (Optimal) to 4.2 (High Risk)
My total cholesterol has gone up from 4.7 (Desirable) to 6.1 (Borderline)

But the ratios are better overall:
Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio has remained almost the same: Was 3.92 (Good) now 3.83 (Good)
HDL/LDL ratio has gone from 0.566 (Ideal) to 0.381 (Good)
Triglycerides/HDL ratio has improved from 5.70 (High Risk) to 0.987 (Ideal)

I am going to try to tweak my LDL levels by eating less double cream and cheese, and increasing fats from avocados, nuts, olive oil, oily fish, and meat.

 

[Brunneria]

I had been low carbing for a long time before I switched to very low carb.

The vlc effect on my cholesterol was:
Total cholesterol increased by 0.2 units
LDL decreased a bit
HDL increased a bit
Trigs dropped a bit

My ratios went from GOOD to EXCELLENT/OPTIMAL

- and I eat a lot of animal and saturated fat. Cream in hot drinks and on berries, fat on meat, butter on anything that I can balance it on, cheese in good quantity... Thinking about my diet for the last few weeks of VLC eating, I would say that my use of olive oil has been small in comparison. I do supplement with Omega 3 krill oil capsules.

I think that the effect of sat fat on cholesterol is minimal (dietary fat has a minimal effect on cholesterol, despite all the verbage over past decades by people who should know better).

On the other hand, carbs, alcohol and weight loss seem to have a significant effect. So many people switching to low carb lose weight and their cholesterol goes up - they then have a knee-jerk reaction and panic. If they just waited it out, their cholesterol would settle to its new and better ratios.

And the ratios are KEY. Anyone who thinks that increased Total Cholesterol is a bad thing needs to examine the breakdown and the ratios. Often these IMPROVE with a resulting overall increase.

When you are reading articles and studies on Cholesterol PLEASE examine them carefully. A lot of them base their doom and gloom on vagaries like Total Cholesterol, which is largely meaningless. And often the diets involved are high in omega 6s, or processed fats, which make the findings a nonsense when compared with cholesterol RATIOS and healthy non-processed fats.

 

[noblehead]

When I first started low carbing I ate saturated fats and my ldl and trigs went up. This worried me so I now major on extra Virgin Olive oil, oily fish, nuts etc.

Google the Mediterranean Diet, it's recommends eating Virgin Olive Oil, oily fish and nuts as part of a healthy diet, it's recommends wholegrains too but I know some low-carbers with diabetes have adapted the diet to control their bg levels.

Here's a brief description about the Med Diet from the Mayo Clinic:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...ting/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801

 

[Brunneria]

Below is a post I put together for a previous Cholesterol Thread, and I thought it was relevant here too. Apologies for just cutting and pasting it, but why re-create a perfectly good rant when you have one ready made
Here you go:

We have all been indoctrinated for decades into thinking that cholesterol should be low. Doctors, nurses and medical thinking still spout this ad nauseum.

The truth is that once people separate out the scientific evidence from the mumbo jumbo collective thinking, they find the situation is both more complex and more reassuring than they expect.

Ken Sikaris explains what happens to cholesterol when people adopt a LCHF way of eating. Even if levels go up, this does not mean it is necessarily a bad thing.

There is growing evidence that having low cholesterol is actually connected to higher death rates than high cholesterol - especially as we get older. Higher levels also protect brain function.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=381733

http://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h3978/

http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/96/12/927

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2614555/

Saturated fat has been demonised for far too long. In this video, a highly qualified dietitian explains why the whole saturated fat is bad thinking is just plain wonky.

So many knee jerk reactions exist about Cholesterol that is it like fighting a spider's web. First people think that high cholesterol must be bad. Nope. It is more about ratios and trigs, than LDL and HDL or Total Cholesterol. Then they think that cholesterol causes clogged arteries and heart attacks. Nope. This is simply nonsense and not supported by the science. Then they think that diet has a huge impact, and they should cut fats. Nope. It is the body that decides how much LDL and HDL are being carted around at any time, not our diet. Certain ways of eating can impact cholesterol levels in the blood, but provided you aren't eating too many carbs, hydrogenated/processed trans fats and drinking too much alcohol (because they affect cholesterol too!) then your own body regulates things.

Don't take my word for it. Do your own reading. But please, don't just fall back to the old thinking and then worrit yourselves sick about it.

Here are some books that you may find useful.

The Great Cholesterol Con - Malcom Kendrick
The Great Cholesterol Myth - Bowden, Sinatra and Rawlings
The Art and Science of Low Carb Living - Voleck and Phinney

 

[Indy51]

There is a fairly common genetic mutation that can affect how well you process saturated fat, especially if you aren't balancing it with other types of fats like monounsaturated and polyunsaturated. I've cued this video to start at the relevant explanation:

Oops, doesn't seem to keep the starting point - it's at 6:31

 

[Jo123]

Google the Mediterranean Diet, it's recommends eating Virgin Olive Oil, oily fish and nuts as part of a healthy diet, it's recommends wholegrains too but I know some low-carbers with diabetes have adapted the diet to control their bg levels.

Here's a brief description about the Med Diet from the Mayo Clinic:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...ting/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801

Thanks noblehead,
this is pretty much what I eat now, other than the wholegrains, although I might have a testing regime with wholegrains again as my carb tolerance has increased. This keeps my cholesterol numbers acceptable for me and my gp with my current level of understanding!

 

[Jo123]

This article is from a LC dietitian who found that she needed to adjust her diet because her cholesterol results needed improving.
http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com/blo...ery-low-carb-ketogenic-diet-my-own-experience

Thank you very interesting.
I have had a quick read will come back to it for a more detailed look.

 

[Jo123]

Hi @Jo123 I'm quite interested in this too. Since eating more fats over the last 12 months my HDL of 1.2 (High Risk) has improved to 1.6 (optimal).
My triglycerides have gone down from 2.99 (High Risk) to 0.69 (normal).
My LDL has gone up from 2.1 (Optimal) to 4.2 (High Risk)
My total cholesterol has gone up from 4.7 (Desirable) to 6.1 (Borderline)

But the ratios are better overall:
Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio has remained almost the same: Was 3.92 (Good) now 3.83 (Good)
HDL/LDL ratio has gone from 0.566 (Ideal) to 0.381 (Good)
Triglycerides/HDL ratio has improved from 5.70 (High Risk) to 0.987 (Ideal)

I am going to try to tweak my LDL levels by eating less double cream and cheese, and increasing fats from avocados, nuts, olive oil, oily fish, and meat.

Without getting out all my old blood tests, I think the ratios were ok, but my trigs definitely increased when I started low carbing, before when I followed the standard NHS healthy diet, high fibre and low fat my trigs were lower. This was worrying to me as trigs are supposed to be a major red flag.
I did exactly what you propose to do only I cut out the double cream completely and minmized the cheese.

 

[Indy51]

Without getting out all my old blood tests, I think the ratios were ok, but my trigs definitely increased when I started low carbing, before when I followed the standard NHS healthy diet, high fibre and low fat my trigs were lower. This was worrying to me as trigs are supposed to be a major red flag.
I did exactly what you propose to do only I cut out the double cream completely and minmized the cheese.

I recently saw a Q&A with Prof Tim Noakes on the subject of trigs going up as well as liver function/fatty liver issues on LCHF and his advice may be surprising to some - consider trying one of the plant based/low fat diets. It was the final question (at 32:04 of the video):

 

[Jo123]

@Brunneria thanks for both your posts, I had tried searching, but not very successfully!
I've listened to the first Sikaris when it was on a previous thread. Sounds convincing but I need to see long term studies that show people live longer with these blood results. But I will take my time and read through all your links!

I don't worry myself about my cholesterol at the moment, I just would love to be eat more saturated fat!
I love cream!!

 

[Jo123]

@Indy51, thanks for your link I will have a good read through.

 

[AndBreathe]

@Jo123 - I'm surprised your trigs went up as a result of eating more fat. Trigs are more usually associated with carbs, but that's just an aside.

As well as all the other stuff already posted, the recent BBC Wales programme, "Fat v Carbs with Jamie Owen" (although without checking it may have been Carbs v Fat) has a little of Zoe Harcombe on it. Zoe is a Dietician who low carbs. When I watched it, I recall her saying something along the lines that all natural fats are fine, except for Trans Fats, as they're manufactured.

I like to think my reduced carb diet, with balancing fats, is a varied diet, and I can't say I sweat the detail on the proportions of sat/unsat/animal/veg/dairy fat I consume.

My Total Cholesterol is always an inconveniently large number, but the components are excellent. Aside from the Total (which is the addition exercise), the only apparently elevated element I have is the LDL - which has been ever thus, but for now, I am contend to continue as I am.

As a woman of a certain age, I would take quite some convincing to consider statins, based on the scientific studies almost exclusively being done on study populations heavily biased to males, and secondly statistics showing older folks (I haven't go there yet!) do better with slightly higher lipid numbers.

Really, Lipids are such an emotive subject you'll really have to set your own risk dials.