How do these levels look for someone who’s non diabetic but has PCOS?

smadoom

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Hello everyone

My post is more curious than anything. I’ve logged my blood sugar levels through the day today via finger pricking. I seem to be sitting at 5.6-5.7mmol. I have PCOS and I think I could be insulin resistant.

I lift weights 3 times a week, eat high protein and moderate to low carbs.

31, 61kg, 160cm


Fasting - 5.5mmol
1.5hr after whey protein - 5.6mmol
Immediately before food - 5.2mmol
Immediately after food - 11.6mmol
2 hours after food - 5.6mmol

Thanks
 

ianf0ster

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
2,612
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
exercise, phone calls
Hi, I'm a 73yo male Type 2 diabetic in remission for over 4yrs.
Your BMI is either on the hi side of the healthy range or the low side of the overweight range depending upon your ethnicity.
Your spot BG figures don't tell the whole story, but look good to me (low enough to keep you in remission if you were/had been T2D).

I don't know much about PCOS except that a Low Carb way of eating often cures/puts it into remission.

You seem to be looking after your health, congratulations!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Melgar

smadoom

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Hi, I'm a 73yo male Type 2 diabetic in remission for over 4yrs.
Your BMI is either on the hi side of the healthy range or the low side of the overweight range depending upon your ethnicity.
Your spot BG figures don't tell the whole story, but look good to me (low enough to keep you in remission if you were/had been T2D).

I don't know much about PCOS except that a Low Carb way of eating often cures/puts it into remission.

You seem to be looking after your health, congratulations!
Thank you. I am south East Asian and my BMI is on the lower end of overweight but I use that as a guide as a I recognise it doesn’t take into consideration muscle weighing. My mmol on waking today is 5.8mmol. Is there a guide you can share of what the ideal ranges should be please? Every time I look on google I seem to get different ranges!
 

Art Of Flowers

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,299
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Statins
Normal range for fasting blood glucose is between 4 and 7. A level of 5.5 is in the normal range. However a level of 11.6 after eating does seem to be a bit high. It looks like a glucose spike.


Take a look at Alpha Lipoic Acid supplements … https://www.pcosnutrition.com/alpha-lipoic-acid/

The are two forms of ALA: r-ALA and s-ALA. The variant you want is r_ALA. ALA is frequently used for diabetic symptoms such as brain fog and neuropathy. It also does seem to lower blood sugars for people with diabetes.
 
Last edited:

ianf0ster

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
2,612
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
exercise, phone calls
I don't have a CGM and never test immediately after eating, since how high the glucose will go depends upon the GI of the food and the speed of the initial insulin response - neither of which are that important to me, since non-diabetics also get short glucose spike at that time and what I'm interested in is if such a high glucose level will stay around long enough to cause me any damage i.e. is it still high at a time when a non-diabetic would have their BG back to what it was before the food.

Edited to add more about why the timing of taking readings.

One thing to note about readings which appear to be a glucose spike, is that they may just be a bad reading.
The BG meters + test strips sold in the UK are of a standard which allows less accuracy than you might think plus they only need to meet that standard 95% of the time, so as much as 1 reading in 20 could be out by a considerable margin.
For this reason, it is always best to re-test in the case of a higher than expected reading (or a lower than expected reading). Though I must admit that with my testing over the years (but rarely now), I hardly ever see a reading more than 1 mmol from what I expect (much less than 1 in 20).
 
Last edited:

Rachox

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
16,733
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
One thing that maybe helpful, if it’s affordable for you would be to get a CGM (continuous glucose monitor). This would show you blood sugar level continuously (as the name suggests) Check if you have a compatible phone first. This would enable you to see when your blood sugar peaks after eating. This can be missed with finger pricks.
 

Art Of Flowers

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,299
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Statins
One thing that maybe helpful, if it’s affordable for you would be to get a CGM (continuous glucose monitor). This would show you blood sugar level continuously (as the name suggests) Check if you have a compatible phone first. This would enable you to see when your blood sugar peaks after eating. This can be missed with finger pricks.
If you are interested in getting a CGM, take at look at this … https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...with-a-continuous-glucose-monitor-cgm.204410/
 

KennyA

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
3,457
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello everyone

My post is more curious than anything. I’ve logged my blood sugar levels through the day today via finger pricking. I seem to be sitting at 5.6-5.7mmol. I have PCOS and I think I could be insulin resistant.

I lift weights 3 times a week, eat high protein and moderate to low carbs.

31, 61kg, 160cm


Fasting - 5.5mmol
1.5hr after whey protein - 5.6mmol
Immediately before food - 5.2mmol
Immediately after food - 11.6mmol
2 hours after food - 5.6mmol

Thanks
A rise immediately after eating carbs is to be expected. Depends what you ate - if it was exceptionally carby (pastry would do it for me) that sort of rise would be expected. I find that carbs in hot/warm liquid form are digested very quickly. It won't take much to alter the level of glucose in your blood - there's only around 4 grams of glucose in the 8-10 pints of blood most of the time.

I can go from 5ish to 9.6 and back again inside an hour, just from lactose in a small latte - as shown by CGM. The point of testing isn't to see "how high you go" - it's to see how well your system is doing at managing the glucose being added.

Glucometers have a substantial level of acceptable inaccuracy of up to 15% which means that single readings aren't always to be trusted. For example, a true BG value of 10mmol/litre could return "acceptable" results of anywhere between 8.5 and 11.5.

All your results in the five range are therefore pretty much the same and are bang normal. The only question I'd have is about what you ate to see the higher figure - which your system dealt with inside 2 hours.
 

ElenaP

Well-Known Member
Messages
475
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hello everyone

My post is more curious than anything. I’ve logged my blood sugar levels through the day today via finger pricking. I seem to be sitting at 5.6-5.7mmol. I have PCOS and I think I could be insulin resistant.

I lift weights 3 times a week, eat high protein and moderate to low carbs.

31, 61kg, 160cm


Fasting - 5.5mmol
1.5hr after whey protein - 5.6mmol
Immediately before food - 5.2mmol
Immediately after food - 11.6mmol
2 hours after food - 5.6mmol

Thanks
Is the GP treating your PCOS with any medication?
 

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
6,272
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Your current diet could be masking insulin resistance, as you're high protein low carb. No way of knowing for sure though, unless you eat carbs for a bit as an experiment or do an oral glucose tolerance test to see whether you spike good and proper. Non-diabetics can hit an 11 after all too, though you haven't mentioned whether that was after eating a cake or a hamburger, or anything carby... But if there's PCOS, insulin resistance is likely. But all we can do on here is guess, really. Just go from the odds, and those are likely to lean over into the resistant category.

Mind you, sticking with a low carb diet is likely to keep you out of the diabetic range for quite a while yet, if not indefinitely.
Good luck,
Jo
 

smadoom

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
A rise immediately after eating carbs is to be expected. Depends what you ate - if it was exceptionally carby (pastry would do it for me) that sort of rise would be expected. I find that carbs in hot/warm liquid form are digested very quickly. It won't take much to alter the level of glucose in your blood - there's only around 4 grams of glucose in the 8-10 pints of blood most of the time.

I can go from 5ish to 9.6 and back again inside an hour, just from lactose in a small latte - as shown by CGM. The point of testing isn't to see "how high you go" - it's to see how well your system is doing at managing the glucose being added.

Glucometers have a substantial level of acceptable inaccuracy of up to 15% which means that single readings aren't always to be trusted. For example, a true BG value of 10mmol/litre could return "acceptable" results of anywhere between 8.5 and 11.5.

All your results in the five range are therefore pretty much the same and are bang normal. The only question I'd have is about what you ate to see the higher figure - which your system dealt with inside 2 hours.
Thank you for this! I can tell you what I ate was a very unhealthy meal off plan (don’t judge :)). It was breaded chicken with lots of cheese, chips and cabbage mash. In other words it was very carb heavy despite of the chicken protein. So I guess that explains to big spike post dinner.
 

smadoom

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Your current diet could be masking insulin resistance, as you're high protein low carb. No way of knowing for sure though, unless you eat carbs for a bit as an experiment or do an oral glucose tolerance test to see whether you spike good and proper. Non-diabetics can hit an 11 after all too, though you haven't mentioned whether that was after eating a cake or a hamburger, or anything carby... But if there's PCOS, insulin resistance is likely. But all we can do on here is guess, really. Just go from the odds, and those are likely to lean over into the resistant category.

Mind you, sticking with a low carb diet is likely to keep you out of the diabetic range for quite a while yet, if not indefinitely.
Good luck,
Jo
I definitely have one of the physical symptoms of IR which is the skin changes. The difficulty is I can’t go off plan because it may be aggravate my PCOS symptoms further and take away progress I’m making. The second hardest thing is getting the GP to agree to me having a fasting insulin test which more often than not… they tend to send me towards checking my hba1c.
 

smadoom

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Is the GP treating your PCOS with any medication?
No. The GP always sways towards looking at my HBA1c despite me having some physical symptoms of IR (skin changes). And that’s usually because (a term I hate using) I don’t fit into textbook PCOS ie I don’t appear to be physically overweight so often my symptoms and experience is overlooked.
 

smadoom

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Your current diet could be masking insulin resistance, as you're high protein low carb. No way of knowing for sure though, unless you eat carbs for a bit as an experiment or do an oral glucose tolerance test to see whether you spike good and proper. Non-diabetics can hit an 11 after all too, though you haven't mentioned whether that was after eating a cake or a hamburger, or anything carby... But if there's PCOS, insulin resistance is likely. But all we can do on here is guess, really. Just go from the odds, and those are likely to lean over into the resistant category.

Mind you, sticking with a low carb diet is likely to keep you out of the diabetic range for quite a while yet, if not indefinitely.
Good luck,
Jo
Oh and just to add, the dinner was very carb-y so to me the spike is not out of range.
 

JoKalsbeek

Expert
Messages
6,272
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I definitely have one of the physical symptoms of IR which is the skin changes. The difficulty is I can’t go off plan because it may be aggravate my PCOS symptoms further and take away progress I’m making. The second hardest thing is getting the GP to agree to me having a fasting insulin test which more often than not… they tend to send me towards checking my hba1c.
...And your HbA1c is probably normal because you're low carbing. I see the problem. Mind you, most GP's don't know all that much about diabetes... And when I was told I had PCOS, all that was mentioned was that I'd have difficulty in the pregnancy department, which was a non-issue for me. At that point in time, if anyone'd bothered to check my HbA1c, it would've likely have been diabetic already. And since I didn't want a baby anyway, I didn't delve into the subject matter, as there were more pressing issues at the time. Basically we kind of tend to have to fend for ourselves here.

Best I can do: go from the assumption that you are resistant. Don't go off plan if you're uncomfortable with it, (An oral glucose tolerance test would only last a few hours, but would show your potential spike. Not a test GP's have heard about more often than not, though, but specialists might have). You could get in touch with an OB/GYN for further research, but since it also goes into endo territory, I'm not entirely sure what direction to point you in. But considering that you did see a spike of 11 while there were quite a few fats involved in that meal as well, which should slow down the uptake of carbs, flattening out the spike and lengthening the duration of it some... We can't diagnose, but I think if it'd been just carbs and no fats, you would've likely seen higher numbers. Which would have been consistent with IR. I'm just hazarding guesses, though.

At this point in time, would you do anything different from what you're doing now, if you had solid answers one way or the other? You're on the low carb high protein diet because of the weights, are you considering ditching that? Because that diet just happens to be quite excellent for someone with PCOS and/or insulin resistance, the more muscle mass you have the smaller the amount of IR, and so at least the diet is something you might want to consider keeping up even if you would stop your training regime tomorrow. (Also, no-one here's going to tut-tut over a carby meal; it's just information that helps us answer your questions, no worries.). PCOS doesn't get much treatment aside from Metformin, which I wasn't offered at the time, and relatively few of us are, so... Would it change anything for now? Would you want meds, change your diet, deviate from the status quo? You mention skin changes, which ones? Acne, skin tags, fungal issues? Getting tags cut off at the GP's might be an option, topical creams would get the others sorted most likely.... And maybe going even lower carb, if possible, would make other symptoms go away.

I may be saying too much again, but when it comes down to it... If there's PCOS, your hormones are likely to be a mess. Insulin is a hormone. Take care of yourself, especially if the medical professionals aren't.
Hugs,
Jo
 
  • Like
Reactions: AloeSvea

ElenaP

Well-Known Member
Messages
475
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
No. The GP always sways towards looking at my HBA1c despite me having some physical symptoms of IR (skin changes). And that’s usually because (a term I hate using) I don’t fit into textbook PCOS ie I don’t appear to be physically overweight so often my symptoms and experience is overlooked.
It must be very hard for you.
 

smadoom

Member
Messages
13
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
...And your HbA1c is probably normal because you're low carbing. I see the problem. Mind you, most GP's don't know all that much about diabetes... And when I was told I had PCOS, all that was mentioned was that I'd have difficulty in the pregnancy department, which was a non-issue for me. At that point in time, if anyone'd bothered to check my HbA1c, it would've likely have been diabetic already. And since I didn't want a baby anyway, I didn't delve into the subject matter, as there were more pressing issues at the time. Basically we kind of tend to have to fend for ourselves here.

Best I can do: go from the assumption that you are resistant. Don't go off plan if you're uncomfortable with it, (An oral glucose tolerance test would only last a few hours, but would show your potential spike. Not a test GP's have heard about more often than not, though, but specialists might have). You could get in touch with an OB/GYN for further research, but since it also goes into endo territory, I'm not entirely sure what direction to point you in. But considering that you did see a spike of 11 while there were quite a few fats involved in that meal as well, which should slow down the uptake of carbs, flattening out the spike and lengthening the duration of it some... We can't diagnose, but I think if it'd been just carbs and no fats, you would've likely seen higher numbers. Which would have been consistent with IR. I'm just hazarding guesses, though.

At this point in time, would you do anything different from what you're doing now, if you had solid answers one way or the other? You're on the low carb high protein diet because of the weights, are you considering ditching that? Because that diet just happens to be quite excellent for someone with PCOS and/or insulin resistance, the more muscle mass you have the smaller the amount of IR, and so at least the diet is something you might want to consider keeping up even if you would stop your training regime tomorrow. (Also, no-one here's going to tut-tut over a carby meal; it's just information that helps us answer your questions, no worries.). PCOS doesn't get much treatment aside from Metformin, which I wasn't offered at the time, and relatively few of us are, so... Would it change anything for now? Would you want meds, change your diet, deviate from the status quo? You mention skin changes, which ones? Acne, skin tags, fungal issues? Getting tags cut off at the GP's might be an option, topical creams would get the others sorted most likely.... And maybe going even lower carb, if possible, would make other symptoms go away.

I may be saying too much again, but when it comes down to it... If there's PCOS, your hormones are likely to be a mess. Insulin is a hormone. Take care of yourself, especially if the medical professionals aren't.
Hugs,
Jo

Hi Jo,
You’re not saying too much at all, this is actually very very helpful! I haven’t had any support from the GPs in the 4 years I’ve been diagnosed and coming to these forums is the only help I can really get. I’ll try and be brief with my reply:
  • you’re right, confirming IR won’t deviate me from my plan of sticking to low carb, high protein but it will help me to know I’m working on the right root cause.
  • I’m attempting to build muscle mass which is taking time and go for regular walks. I try and incorporate a ten min walk at least after my biggest meal which is usually dinner.
  • The skin changes I have is Acanthosis nigricans. Ever so slightly around my neck and only under one underarm.
  • I do have fungal acne but have noticed it become significantly better since changing my diet
  • Someone suggested getting a CGM and I think I might do that for one month so that I can see how the foods in my plan impact my sugar and insulin levels so that I’m eating the right foods
  • Yes my hba1c has always been normal although I question normal. What I find is with GPs is that even if a level is at the highest end of the accepted range, to them that is ‘normal’ therefore no further action is needed but to someone else it might seem like it is close to being of concern (does that make sense?) I certainly found this with my PCOS and had to fight tooth and nail for my diagnosis
  • My mum is also Type 2 which gives me more of a reason to be careful so that it can be reversed now than to buy myself problems later
 

KennyA

Moderator
Staff Member
Moderator
Messages
3,457
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Thank you for this! I can tell you what I ate was a very unhealthy meal off plan (don’t judge :)). It was breaded chicken with lots of cheese, chips and cabbage mash. In other words it was very carb heavy despite of the chicken protein. So I guess that explains to big spike post dinner.
Absolutely no judging being done. It's a carby meal, and one with an amount of fat, so that may have affected the pattern and rate of carb absorption. Hard to tell from one reading. I'd expect a figure somewhere in that region after that sort of meal.

BTW, I don't consider that a spike - it's a normal and expected rise after a fair amount of carb.