1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2019 »
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Hypos milder whilst on keto - is there any scientific evidence?

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by ratherbegliding, Aug 20, 2019.

  1. ratherbegliding

    ratherbegliding Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Hi everyone,

    I've been a T1D for 30 years now but only discovered the joys of a keto diet 3 years ago.

    I know everyone is different, but for me it's like the difference between night and day - I started seeing the positive benefits within 12 hours of going keto.

    My personal experience has been that I have much fewer hypos, and when I do go low it's all very gentle and easily remedied - a big change to where I was 20 years ago!

    These days I am also very fortunate to hold a recreational/sport pilots licence (which is a very limited form of licence designed for people with 'medical issues'). I find the restrictions, well, too restrictive and I'm trying to get my licence upgraded to a full Private Pilots Licence.

    However, dealing with the medical standards people is proving somewhat challenging.

    So my question to the collective knowledge-base is this:
    Does anyone know of any medical studies which investigate the reduced severity of hypoglycemic events among T1's for those following a keto/LHCF diet?

    Any assistance would be much appreciated.

    Many thanks,

    RBG
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,644
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    Trophy Points:
    298
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. ratherbegliding

    ratherbegliding Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    43
    #bulkbiker
    Cheers mate, need more of the same....keep me in mind if you come across anymore.

    :)
     
  4. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,391
    Likes Received:
    5,640
    Trophy Points:
    198
    @ratherbegliding - we have a member who holds a full commercial pilot's license and his day to day occupation is flying.

    Ihave no idea if you have issues in addition to your T1, impacting on your status (and I'm not asking), but I would have thought that whilst having a very good look at your T1, they will be looking at he wider landscape.

    Unfortunately, I can't recall the commercial pilot's user name, but if you do a forum search on commercial pilot or commercial license (or something like that), he may pop up. Alternatively, others may have a better memory that me!
     
  5. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
    Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,999
    Likes Received:
    10,879
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I believe @ScottyD might be the member @DCUKMod might be thinking of? His avatar certainly suggests he’s a pilot.
    ScottyD please forgive me if I’ve got this wrong.
     
  6. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
    Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    9,391
    Likes Received:
    5,640
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Ah, I had guessed at ScottyD too, but I was wrongly thinking there was a space in there - Doh!

    Thanks, @Rachox
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,644
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Will do although there aren't a whole heap.
    I'm guessing you are familiar with Dr Bernstein?

    Might be worth having a poke around his site

    http://www.diabetes-book.com
     
  8. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,699
    Likes Received:
    12,519
    Trophy Points:
    198
  9. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Trophy Points:
    198

    Attached Files:

  10. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Trophy Points:
    198
  11. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Given the lack of support for low carbs and keto for the last few decades, and the overriding fear of ketoacidosis and its unfortunate association with ketosis for T1D, I doubt there has been any researchers brave enough to suggest such a study... though things may change with the Typeonegrit folks...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. ratherbegliding

    ratherbegliding Type 1 · Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    43
    @DCUKMod , @Rachox - thanks for the lead. I'm in New Zealand, so the rules aren't quite so enlightened here.

    @bulkbiker - Yes, it was Dr Bernstein's book which got me started with keto. Awesome bit of literature which should be required reading for all newly diagnosed diabetics.

    @Robbity - Yup, came across that one too.

    @kokhongw - thanks for that, really interesting read! Will spend a bit more time with that blog. Although as he says, there doesn't seem to be a wealth of studies into the effects of a keto diet on T1's.....

    So, the medical review panel have declined my application for a medical waiver. Their opinion, in it's entirety, reads as follows:

    "The medical experts note the history of hypoglycaemia and recent glucose logbook readings. They consider the risk of hypoglycaemia to exceed that which is considered to be compatible with CAA NZ medical certification."

    Now, to put this in perspective, I test 7 times a day and in the most recent month of readings data I supplied I had 5 readings of 3.5mmol/l or less. So that's about 1 a week. I feel they are missing the point that whilst these events are technically a hypo, the fact I am on a keto diet means that they are mild and easily treatable - nothing like what life used to be like before!

    Hence I'm trying to find reliable/scientific evidence to support the above.

    Apparently I have the right to appeal, but not sure if that's going to achieve anything without some sort of suitable material.

    Thanks for the help so far everyone - keep 'em coming!

    RBG
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Hug Hug x 1
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,644
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    Trophy Points:
    298
    There is a well known George Cahill study where subjects in ketosis were injected with insulin when fasting to drive their blood glucose down into the high 1's and low 2's. This was shown to have no visible adverse effects.
    Tried to find it but can't..
    Stephen Phinney refers to it in quite a few lectures and the date 1972 sticks in my mind as the publication date (but I coudl be wrong).
    I'll see if I can uncover it. Or does someone else maybe have the link?
     
  14. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,136
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    178
    It is said, and observed, that those who are in nutritional ketosis very often have a lower glucose requirement in the brain. That is to say that they can function perfectly well in what would normally be considered (in the wider population) as hypoglycaemia conditions. This may be a factor if you are talking about the physical response rather than just the actual numbers.

    EDIT: apologies as I see this had already been mentioned by @bulkbiker.
     
    #14 Jim Lahey, Aug 21, 2019 at 9:38 AM
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  15. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Dr Keith Runyan's blogpost referred to Dendrick's fasting study...

    upload_2019-8-21_16-39-4.png

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC332976/
    upload_2019-8-21_16-48-9.png


    And there was a separate MCT study
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2671041/

    upload_2019-8-21_16-48-43.png

    upload_2019-8-21_16-50-3.png
     
  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,644
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    Trophy Points:
    298
  17. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Trophy Points:
    198
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #17 kokhongw, Aug 21, 2019 at 9:59 AM
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  18. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,300
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Trophy Points:
    198
    Another insightful note from the chapter...
    upload_2019-8-21_17-17-37.png
     
  19. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,136
    Likes Received:
    2,562
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I recall when I had my first (and only) "hypo" at 4.4mmol/L. Now a perfectly normal number, but at the time it was extreme hypoglycaemia for my body. I have never felt so cold and horrifically ill. Right to my core. I was so confused it was like I had lost all cognitive function. With the help of someone else, I managed to 'treat' it but swung back to 13+ very quickly and honestly I felt so bad that dying would probably have been easier. I did not know it was possible for a human to feel so dreadful. Wouldn't wish it on an enemy :hungover:

    So yeah, false hypos are not false when you experience them, is my point. Be careful out there folks :nurse:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. helensaramay

    helensaramay Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,350
    Likes Received:
    6,236
    Trophy Points:
    178
    @Jim Lahey newly diagnosed people with type 1 read the type 1 threads. Many of them are dealing with anxiety of the unknown and fear of hypos. We each feel hypos differently but that are not nice.
    Unlike some diabetes complications which can be avoided, hypos are incredibly difficult to avoid for someone with type 1 diabetes.
    Given the fear and anxiety from people who are newly diagnosed, I take incredible care not to describe my hypo experiences in detail on the type 1 threads.
    As you may remember when you were first diagnosed, when we are first diagnosed, we have enough to deal with without reading more horror stories.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook