kyrani99
Well-Known Member
I now appreciate what you mean. I had misunderstood because of the way it is said in my country, sorry.
kyrani
Some confusion here I think. Should have thought more about that. We use it to mean daft in this area. Sorry.
There are many books to be found on using the mind and the imagination to balance the body and promote healing. I can not say if they work but when people have a chronic disease or illness, particularly a life threatening one, most would try anything if they thought it would help.
Well, unless you do something worthy of being banned then your opinion is as valid as anyone else's.
If what you are saying has merit then I am surprised we have not heard about it before. Even if it flies in the face of what "they" want us believe I've seen stranger ideas become more popular.
The last thing I want to do on this forum is pretend I understand everything and have all the answers because I don't. I can't claim anything extraordinary. I am always open to hear what people have to say though. Like you kyrani, I can only tell you what I know has worked for a lot of people, in particular when it comes to panic disorder. I am a little confused by what you wrote because it reads as though you think all people who have panic disorder have a conflict with another person. That's simply not true. I have helped many people with panic disorder who live alone, and even more who don't have a conflict with anyone. In fact, I'd say that a lot of people suffering in this way are in conflict with themselves! Pure unhappiness/depression can cause a lot of personal internal conflict alone...likewise mid life problems, bereavement...the list goes on.
Where panic disorder is concerned, there is one thing that I know for sure remedies the situation. It's the exact opposite of what someone who has panic disorder tends to do. A person who lives in fearful anticipation and who has PD, is scared about how they will feel should they have the next attack. That is first fear. Because it becomes habitual, day in day out to think like this, they are keeping a panic attack a breath away because they have already introduced a high level of anxiety...a steady stream of adrenaline but not always a rush. It doesn't take much for that adrenaline rush though. One sensation in the body that reminds a person of how that felt before and what it led to, is enough to trigger a panic attack. The memory has a big part to play in it all.
What's happened is they have begun to be fearful of the smallest of bodily sensations, memory is triggered, and tells them to be on alert. They have a terrible reactionary feeling of doom. Of course there is actually no real threat...it's a perceived threat. The thing they are fearing is fear itself and what it can make them feel like physically. They are scared to feel that way again if you like.
I have had many success stories helping people get rid of panic attacks for good. I tell them to welcome those feelings, make friends with them if you like. Sure, it feels wrong for them in the beginning and takes lots of practice, but eventually it's a bit like rewiring the brain and making new positive non fearful memories.
I have even asked people to ask for the panic to kill them in some cases. This actually has had some amazing quick results! The panic doesn't know what to do with that! A panic attack sufferer at the height of the attack, most often believes the end result of a panic attack will be extremely detrimental to both their sanity and their lives. They have to learn and accept that it isn't the case at all.To keep seeing this by a) not feeding it second fear, and b) giving it all permission to happen, helps a lot and can eventually lead to complete cure of persistent panic attacks.
It's about trust and acceptance in a new world a sufferer has entered. A world filled with fearful anticipation. It's alien to anyone to keep panicking every day and not think there is something extremely wrong with them. Conflict doesn't always have to be about another person and often it is not.
I would like to add that there is a clear cut difference between someone who has a one off out of the blue panic attack, and a person who has developed full blown panic disorder. We are all different. We all perceive things in our own way, and we all react to different things in a different way. The reaction to the first panic attack is crucial.
There are people who have one panic attack in their lives and are just grateful 'that's all it was'. They tend to get on with their lives and put it behind them. Then there are more sensitive people who react immediately to that first panic attack with fear and dread of it happening again. This dread is often enough to bring on another attack and panic disorder then develops.
What you have given is the official, medical opinion of psychiatrists and IMO it is unreasonable. Note the psychiatrists are saying “no apparent cause” and not “no cause”. There is no objective evidence.
MY FINDINGS and what I was told by toxic people is the following:
Without any visible signs, a person carrying a concealed weapon,
who has done crime before,
who is trivially relationally entangled with the targeted person,
can pose a threat, by upholding the intent to do a crime IF there is a triangle with a chief offender, i.e., someone strongly related to the targeted person.
The threat is simple. It is done by having made a prior arrangement that says “I’ll give you a call if I decide to give you the go ahead”.
In this way the criminal only needs to be in the vicinity of the targeted person, typically for 5-10 minutes to cause the person to feel intense fear. The idea of danger is not “just an idea”. It is a perception of a threat, of real danger.
From my knowledge, my university training and from my own research, I have yet to find a human being who does no feel fear (ie mobilize their body ready for action, what you call “fight or flight response”) in the face of danger. Conversely I don’t know of any idea that can cause a biological response other than the perception of real danger. I would be very interested if you have found otherwise.
My late husband, who was toxic, and by his own admission was for years involved in these types of games, told me (late in our marriage) how the cheat is done. He gave me information that I was able to verify. The cheat that gives rise to panic attack he said, is done for a variety of reasons. According to him the main reasons is to gain power and influence over another person to manipulate and control them, to limit their movements, to hurt them as revenge or to hurt them for not agreeing with the chief offender.
My late husband also said the chief offender is commonly a spouse (male or female), a sibling or other relative, an employer or other employee, a toxic friend etc. They must be related to the victim and they must be capable of gaining information about the victim, i.e., the victim would confide in them and tell them of their movements.
You can see more detail here if you want:
http://kyrani99book2.wordpress.com/chapter-1/
The “smoking gun” is found in the physiology, when one asks the question:
Why does a person panic? It depends on how a person reacts somatically. Different people react differently.
The answer that I found in the physiology was because of a coping mechanism that’s habit and hence automatic physiological response.
I have discovered in the observation of hundreds of people, two mechanism or ways of coping that uses physiology, they manipulated their breathing. There are probably other ways too that I haven’t seen or are not so readily visible. By my own experiments I found that it is possible to affect awareness by manipulating breathing.
In my research, I found that shallow breathing leads to lethargy and deep breathing leads to distraction. The distraction is due to the brain being engaged in too many activities at once. I found from my experiments that if there is deep breathing then the metabolism is raised and the brain is involved in a lot of extra activities. In serious thinking the type necessary to solve a problem, or concentrated perception, as happens in the 10 or 20 seconds before a fear response, the body lowers metabolism or keeps the metabolism at rest conditions. My experiments don’t include everyone.
Panic is not just fear. It is, as you have recognized in your reply, “escalating fear”. But it is IMO also mounting fear that a person doesn’t know how to handle, thus runs out of control.
What are toxic people?
Quote
I just try and explain what I have found just the same as you are doing. I haven't needed to go any deeper than I already have with people, to help them get back to some normality with panic attacks every other day. Often we can make things just a little too complicated when actually they are simple. I don't do therapy any more out of choice. I was actually inundated towards the end with young people who had an adverse post reaction to smoking weed. It is notorious in causing panic attacks/disorders in highly sensitive people...and there's no one else involved with that, just an illicit drug.
If you don't mind me saying, I struggled to understand why it was amazing that your chest pain disappeared when the men outside disappeared. I would have thought that was plain relief...threat gone.
Anyway, this is a diabetes forum so talking about panic disorder is going rather off topic.
Take care Kyrani
Kyrani, if this is how you respond to people who are trying to agree with you, or meet you half way, you are not going to stay unbanned for long.“The cure is within yourself” is a common remark of New Age Gurus but.. IMO it is “a bunch of rubbish”. That is NOT what I’m saying. It is true that we perceive the mind as “within” so in that sense you can say that if you look within and discover the problematic ideas then you are on your way to resolving the disease. But there is a big difference between looking within at ideas in mind and “the cure is within yourself”! The mind is a common platform.
The general message that you observe of “blame for the person with a condition for allowing emotional problems to cause their physical problems and not being strong enough or spiritual enough to "heal" themselves” (my emphases) is IMO baloney.
Also the idea that “either by "forgiving" themselves or others, who are the causes of their emotional and subsequent physical ills” that they supposedly get well, ALSO, IMO is garbage. There are plenty of occasions where forgiveness of other who are offending against you is the worst thing you can do. Forgiveness is not a bandage or a panacea. There are times where it is very good but there are also times where it is useless and even puts the person at greater risk of harm by the offenders.
Because one person has found a way of being cured does not make others failures.
The type of person, who blames another person, either for having a disease or not being able to get well, is almost always an inhumane, toxic person (IMO human but rubbish).
The person who has made a discovery that has helped them to health, has an obligation to tell others, to assist other in their journey to health, if those others desire their help and their problem is similar enough. It is highly unethical for me to know how to get well in cases like mine and not share what I know with other. To see others suffer and not share what I have discovered? It is unthinkable. To have empathy and to reach out to others is what it means to be humane and decent.
There is no “strong link between emotional issues and a dis- ease” or disease. Emotions ARE reactivity in the body, but emotions alone are not enough to cause problems unless they are long standing and /or conflicting, which is not normal. For instance anxiety, which is the mix of either ANGER and WORRY or FEAR and WORRY, can become a health hazard if it goes on for a long time. Both anger and fear raise the metabolism. Worry lowers the metabolism. So you end up with vital organs such as the heart trying to go fast and slow at the same time. There is a very simple case. There is lot more to most diseases than mere emotional issues, at least from my experience.
“Emotional issues don’t manifest physically”, it is the emotions that are physical reactivity in the body. The issues are outside and the ideas that point to those issues are mental. For example danger can become an “emotional issue”, depending on the circumstances, but it does not “manifest physically” in the body.
For the above reason “remission of those disorders by healing emotional issues” is obviously not true. You can’t heal emotional issues. You can resolve them so the emotional reactivity is resolved. But diseases and disorder are a lot more than that.
This “some conditions have an emotional basis” is also not true. No condition has an emotional basis. Medical conditions in the body can arise owing to what we could call “emotional bleeding”. Dr. Keith Scott-Mumby, who is a medical, but alternative, diet etc doctor, acknowledges that if you don’t help the patient overcome recurrent emotions, you cannot help them on their journey to health, but the disease is more than the emotional reactivity. It is not that if you resolve the emotions you got instant results. Rather the emotions can be an important part of the medical picture.
This remark “past life issues impacting on this incarnation as an explanation” is also IMO false. There are no past issues that can impact on health in this incarnation. I see this as part of a more general misconception about karma. The idea of what you do in one life, you will be punished or rewarded in the next is bogus. This is not what karma is about.
I have yet to find a new age author that I agree with. Not even the well educated ones, people like Bruce Lipton, for instance. He is a New Ager, a Harvard University guy if I remember correctly.. “the best doctors money can buy” variety.. but I think his message about disease is not valid. He was one of the early pioneers in epigenetics and did some extremely good work in that field, both in the lab and bringing the message to other scientists and doctors and he is admirable for that, but then he started to marry up epigenetics with quantum physics like ideas and in IMO he went of the rails. I can’t see how you can use his methods to get well.
Lastly, and very importantly, if you think “sometimes it is just s**t happens” then you don't see the big picture. That is what you need to remedy and no shovels goona help!
Ultimately it is the set of the sail and not of the gale, that determines the way the ship will go. BUT if you are NOT the captain of your ship, then your ship doesn’t go where you want to go.
Sh*t NEVER “just happens”.
Kyrani
'**** happens' is a pretty good summary of Buddhist detachment, about as good as you are going to get in two words of ordinary English."S**t happens* is an attitude of mind that I find useful occasionally, I've long since realised that sometimes there isn't an explanation for everything, and I prefer to use my energies elsewhere and move on
Kyrani, you are hilarious. The one person on the thread who is trying to agree with you, at least in part, and you tell her she's wrong and lump her in with your self-declared enemies, the medical establishment. :-DWhat you have given is the official, medical opinion of psychiatrists and IMO it is unreasonable. Note the psychiatrists are saying “no apparent cause” and not “no cause”. There is no objective evidence.
MY FINDINGS and what I was told by toxic people is the following:
Without any visible signs, a person carrying a concealed weapon,
who has done crime before,
who is trivially relationally entangled with the targeted person,
can pose a threat, by upholding the intent to do a crime IF there is a triangle with a chief offender, i.e., someone strongly related to the targeted person.
The threat is simple. It is done by having made a prior arrangement that says “I’ll give you a call if I decide to give you the go ahead”.
In this way the criminal only needs to be in the vicinity of the targeted person, typically for 5-10 minutes to cause the person to feel intense fear. The idea of danger is not “just an idea”. It is a perception of a threat, of real danger.
From my knowledge, my university training and from my own research, I have yet to find a human being who does no feel fear (ie mobilize their body ready for action, what you call “fight or flight response”) in the face of danger. Conversely I don’t know of any idea that can cause a biological response other than the perception of real danger. I would be very interested if you have found otherwise.
My late husband, who was toxic, and by his own admission was for years involved in these types of games, told me (late in our marriage) how the cheat is done. He gave me information that I was able to verify. The cheat that gives rise to panic attack he said, is done for a variety of reasons. According to him the main reasons is to gain power and influence over another person to manipulate and control them, to limit their movements, to hurt them as revenge or to hurt them for not agreeing with the chief offender.
My late husband also said the chief offender is commonly a spouse (male or female), a sibling or other relative, an employer or other employee, a toxic friend etc. They must be related to the victim and they must be capable of gaining information about the victim, i.e., the victim would confide in them and tell them of their movements.
You can see more detail here if you want:
http://kyrani99book2.wordpress.com/chapter-1/
Sorrry I gave the wrong link, it is still relevant though so I leave it in.
This is the link I meant to give:
http://kyrani99book1.wordpress.com/
The “smoking gun” is found in the physiology, when one asks the question:
Why does a person panic? It depends on how a person reacts somatically. Different people react differently.
The answer that I found in the physiology was because of a coping mechanism that’s habit and hence automatic physiological response.
I have discovered in the observation of hundreds of people, two mechanism or ways of coping that uses physiology, they manipulated their breathing. There are probably other ways too that I haven’t seen or are not so readily visible. By my own experiments I found that it is possible to affect awareness by manipulating breathing.
In my research, I found that shallow breathing leads to lethargy and deep breathing leads to distraction. The distraction is due to the brain being engaged in too many activities at once. I found from my experiments that if there is deep breathing then the metabolism is raised and the brain is involved in a lot of extra activities. In serious thinking the type necessary to solve a problem, or concentrated perception, as happens in the 10 or 20 seconds before a fear response, the body lowers metabolism or keeps the metabolism at rest conditions. My experiments don’t include everyone.
Panic is not just fear. It is, as you have recognized in your reply, “escalating fear”. But it is IMO also mounting fear that a person doesn’t know how to handle, thus runs out of control.
Signy, your English is better than most English people's. ThisIsTooDifficult was implying you were being too clever. I'm not sure he's read the original post you were trying to respond to!My first language is Dutch, but I have spoken English for most of my life . I have difficulties though when I'm trying to follow a thread of thought but I'm tired, the family are making enough noise for thrash metal loving trolls and the Android gremlins is playing up
Hell, I barely understand myself sometimes!
Signy
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