I just don't get this start of a light hypo at 4.6

Shaky-kate

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Hi,

Had a late tea bum, tuna, protein yogurt at around 8.30 pm just a few hours ago, was ok, started to feel jittery from my tummy hich is my sign for on up and coming crash, just took my bloods 4.6 so now having a pot noodle which tends to work far better than fast sugars.

yet in that hospital on monday for 3 days of fasting they could not force me to have a hypo.

i did state my blood was like this.

1st 5.6, 4.8, 5 odd, then 4.6, then 3.7, then 4.8, back down to 4 something, the up, then 3.4 to 4.6 back down, hen nurses and endo said wow, tested ketones at 9.8, jittery hypos at 3.4, then stopping with bloods back in the 4s. they gave up on the 3rd day..

results will be about next friday.

Kate.
 

DEM1988

Member
Messages
17
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi,

Had a late tea bum, tuna, protein yogurt at around 8.30 pm just a few hours ago, was ok, started to feel jittery from my tummy hich is my sign for on up and coming crash, just took my bloods 4.6 so now having a pot noodle which tends to work far better than fast sugars.

yet in that hospital on monday for 3 days of fasting they could not force me to have a hypo.

i did state my blood was like this.

1st 5.6, 4.8, 5 odd, then 4.6, then 3.7, then 4.8, back down to 4 something, the up, then 3.4 to 4.6 back down, hen nurses and endo said wow, tested ketones at 9.8, jittery hypos at 3.4, then stopping with bloods back in the 4s. they gave up on the 3rd day..

results will be about next friday.

Kate.
This sounds exactly like me although I can't get into hospital for the fasting test as there's no available beds for me to do it. Every time I was asked to fast before an appointment I just couldn't hypo. I'd then be on my way home from the hospital and bam, a hypo. I think the fact that when you fast you don't have a hypo (well at least one that stays low) is kind of indicative of Reactive Hypoglycaemia.

I've recently been put on the medication Acarbose which has been brilliant - not one hypo yesterday when usually I have 2 or 3. At my worst before diagnosis I could have 12 hypos a day going as low as 2.2mmol.

I'd ask to speak to a Dietitian and also see about being prescribed Acarbose. Acarbose has a somewhat bad reputation on this forum (at least what I've been able to see so far) but it has been a game changer for me.

I hope that once you have your results back and you've got your diagnosis you can then get the help you need.
 

DEM1988

Member
Messages
17
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi,

Had a late tea bum, tuna, protein yogurt at around 8.30 pm just a few hours ago, was ok, started to feel jittery from my tummy hich is my sign for on up and coming crash, just took my bloods 4.6 so now having a pot noodle which tends to work far better than fast sugars.

yet in that hospital on monday for 3 days of fasting they could not force me to have a hypo.

i did state my blood was like this.

1st 5.6, 4.8, 5 odd, then 4.6, then 3.7, then 4.8, back down to 4 something, the up, then 3.4 to 4.6 back down, hen nurses and endo said wow, tested ketones at 9.8, jittery hypos at 3.4, then stopping with bloods back in the 4s. they gave up on the 3rd day..

results will be about next friday.

Kate.
Also, I was told to eat a long acting carbohydrate before bed. What was suggested to me was cereals such as Weetabix, Oatibix, Cornflakes etc which have worked really well in maintaining my sugar levels through the night despite these being high Glycemic Index foods. The cereals idea was suggested by a Dietitian who works in the NHS.
 
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Shaky-kate

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This sounds exactly like me although I can't get into hospital for the fasting test as there's no available beds for me to do it. Every time I was asked to fast before an appointment I just couldn't hypo. I'd then be on my way home from the hospital and bam, a hypo. I think the fact that when you fast you don't have a hypo (well at least one that stays low) is kind of indicative of Reactive Hypoglycaemia.

I've recently been put on the medication Acarbose which has been brilliant - not one hypo yesterday when usually I have 2 or 3. At my worst before diagnosis I could have 12 hypos a day going as low as 2.2mmol.

I'd ask to speak to a Dietitian and also see about being prescribed Acarbose. Acarbose has a somewhat bad reputation on this forum (at least what I've been able to see so far) but it has been a game changer for me.

I hope that once you have your results back and you've got your diagnosis you can then get the help you need.
I get that,

When i was on the keto diet mid last year i felt perfect when in ketosis, bloods going down to 4.3 without a hypo while hiking long distance, yet after food the bloods would go all over the place, it took just 4 days to level out on the keto without meat.

My body when doing that fasting in hospital went into such an extreme ketone at 9.8 that it stopped the hypos, with only some shaking when standing.

I think their fasting testing maybe very wrongly designed.

Doing my first test today during a short walk with bloods and pressure.
 

Lamont D

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Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
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I do not have diabetes
The fasting test is designed only to see if you do go hypo.
They should not force a hypo.
If you do go hypo. It is another condition that needs more tests to diagnose.
As I have said, it is food that causes the trigger for the hypo, after a hyper, overshoot and excess insulin before hypo.
But there are varying conditions of hypoglycaemia in their own way.
I have Non diabetic Late Reactive Hypoglycaemia.
You may have another form of type of hypoglycaemia.
The rollercoaster ride of high and low BG levels, is a symptom of many metabolic conditions, not only RH.
If it is RH, then advocating carbs is just not logical at any time of the day, in my twelve years of having RH.

Many people have have sugar crashes for many reasons.
The symptoms of a sugar crash and the rapid drop because of the reaction is similar, and the exception is Hypoglycaemic cases go hypo, because the liver can't provide enough glucose to correct the excess insulin produced by the overshoot..

Acerbose is prescribed to T2s to help with carb intake, to help slow the digestion of the carbs.
which you would think would help. But with RH, As with other T2 meds, it will not prevent the outcome of having excess insulin during and after the process and you have to eat every three hours to prevent hypo.
and if you, like me, reduce your carb intake to very, very low. The need to take it, becomes irrelevant.
it does come with the risk of horrid side effects, and my endocrinologist when I asked him, was very dismissive of using the meds.

I would ask for further tests after your recent results come through.
 
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AndBreathe

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I get that,

When i was on the keto diet mid last year i felt perfect when in ketosis, bloods going down to 4.3 without a hypo while hiking long distance, yet after food the bloods would go all over the place, it took just 4 days to level out on the keto without meat.

My body when doing that fasting in hospital went into such an extreme ketone at 9.8 that it stopped the hypos, with only some shaking when standing.

I think their fasting testing maybe very wrongly designed.

Doing my first test today during a short walk with bloods and pressure.
What happened on your walk today?
 
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Shaky-kate

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What happened on your walk today?
I posted what happened in this thread with 2 images. Been well off since coming back at about 2 pm. Took some time to get my blood pressure up enough to go out, but BM at 8.6 after breakfast so ok there, when i went was ok for for a very short while, made a mile, tested blood pressure, that was ok, felt ok just lacking fitness due to the amount of issues i,m having.

Walking along flat ground no effect whatsoever, another half mile in i started to feel unsteady, within seconds legs started to hurt, its hard to explain, thought i know this feeling, so took my bloods, 3.9, the speed in which that sugar drops is mental. No point in taking food as i would need a tesco truck. from feeling ok to the start of concentration issues and feeling sleepy was about 30 seconds.

I did a video but not allowed to put it here.

walking back i could feel it just sitting, getting no worse, got back home tested my bloods again 5.7 but that few minutes of 3.9 has wrecked me, been asllep most f the afternoon, can't concentrate right still.

fed up to the teeth. sick of this its ruined my life.

what it does to my concentration shocks me. food does nothing to bring back the concentration.
 

Shaky-kate

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The fasting test is designed only to see if you do go hypo.
They should not force a hypo.
If you do go hypo. It is another condition that needs more tests to diagnose.
As I have said, it is food that causes the trigger for the hypo, after a hyper, overshoot and excess insulin before hypo.
But there are varying conditions of hypoglycaemia in their own way.
I have Non diabetic Late Reactive Hypoglycaemia.
You may have another form of type of hypoglycaemia.
The rollercoaster ride of high and low BG levels, is a symptom of many metabolic conditions, not only RH.
If it is RH, then advocating carbs is just not logical at any time of the day, in my twelve years of having RH.

Many people have have sugar crashes for many reasons.
The symptoms of a sugar crash and the rapid drop because of the reaction is similar, and the exception is Hypoglycaemic cases go hypo, because the liver can't provide enough glucose to correct the excess insulin produced by the overshoot..

Acerbose is prescribed to T2s to help with carb intake, to help slow the digestion of the carbs.
which you would think would help. But with RH, As with other T2 meds, it will not prevent the outcome of having excess insulin during and after the process and you have to eat every three hours to prevent hypo.
and if you, like me, reduce your carb intake to very, very low. The need to take it, becomes irrelevant.
it does come with the risk of horrid side effects, and my endocrinologist when I asked him, was very dismissive of using the meds.

I would ask for further tests after your recent results come through.
If you read what i put below.

wnet for a short walk at 11.30 am this morning, not recovering from the 3.9 that sent me off balance yet it recovered on its own, no hypo put i call it a pre hypo warning with the vage feeling and unsteady. it must cause something in the brain as i just am so off and its over 8 hours since getting back.

from 8.6 after breakfast, felt ok, within 40 minutes of walking, just 1.5 miles 3.9, then did like in hospital back up with no food to 5.7, i think my body just can't handle the massive ups and downs causing my head to go numb, slept from 4 pm til gone 6.

have 0 life. and food doesn't bring my concentration levels back, only a nights sleep sort of does.

what it does to my legs is unreal, the energy must stop or something, power failure i call it which starts a lot of pain of, obssly the levels are too low to power the musices i gather
 
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Shaky-kate

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If you read what i put below.

wnet for a short walk at 11.30 am this morning, not recovering from the 3.9 that sent me off balance yet it recovered on its own, no hypo put i call it a pre hypo warning with the vage feeling and unsteady. it must cause something in the brain as i just am so off and its over 8 hours since getting back.

from 8.6 after breakfast, felt ok, within 40 minutes of walking, just 1.5 miles 3.9, then did like in hospital back up with no food to 5.7, i think my body just can't handle the massive ups and downs causing my head to go numb, slept from 4 pm til gone 6.

have 0 life. and food doesn't bring my concentration levels back, only a nights sleep sort of does.

what it does to my legs is unreal, the energy must stop or something, power failure i call it which starts a lot of pain of, obssly the levels are too low to power the musices i gather Hospital said 3 years ago, due to so many years of having hypos it has damaged my nerves.

Leg pain can be a symptom of diabetic neuropathy, this is when diabetes causes damage to your nerves. It can affect different nerves in your body, including in your legs. Neuropathy is one of the long-term complications of diabetes. Leg pain can also be a symptom of reduced blood flow in the legs.
 
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Lamont D

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If you read what i put below.

wnet for a short walk at 11.30 am this morning, not recovering from the 3.9 that sent me off balance yet it recovered on its own, no hypo put i call it a pre hypo warning with the vage feeling and unsteady. it must cause something in the brain as i just am so off and its over 8 hours since getting back.

from 8.6 after breakfast, felt ok, within 40 minutes of walking, just 1.5 miles 3.9, then did like in hospital back up with no food to 5.7, i think my body just can't handle the massive ups and downs causing my head to go numb, slept from 4 pm til gone 6.

have 0 life. and food doesn't bring my concentration levels back, only a nights sleep sort of does.

what it does to my legs is unreal, the energy must stop or something, power failure i call it which starts a lot of pain of, obssly the levels are too low to power the musices i gather
What did you have for breakfast?
Did you do a pre breakfast reading?
And I do agree that the numb brain or brain fog Is very debilitating.
 

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
17,596
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Leg pain can be a symptom of diabetic neuropathy, this is when diabetes causes damage to your nerves. It can affect different nerves in your body, including in your legs. Neuropathy is one of the long-term complications of diabetes. Leg pain can also be a symptom of reduced blood flow in the legs.
Neuropathy is also in metabolic conditions.
That said, naturopathy becomes worse the longer the hyperglycaemia is prevalent for the majority of time.
If there is reduced blood flow in the legs, even if it similar to what happens on long haul flights, there is an underlying reason for it.
 

AndBreathe

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Leg pain can be a symptom of diabetic neuropathy, this is when diabetes causes damage to your nerves. It can affect different nerves in your body, including in your legs. Neuropathy is one of the long-term complications of diabetes. Leg pain can also be a symptom of reduced blood flow in the legs.
Leg pain can be anything from lack of fitness, to nerve damage to circulatory issues, plus a load more. Of course, yours may be neuropathy, but there are many unpleasant reasons why legs hurt.

I can't see any images in this thread, but no matter.

I've been trying to track back a couple of things in your posts, but with several threads I'm having a bit of a time.

Can I ask what your last HbA1c was - ideally a number or percentage. I can see "normal", but a bit more detail might be helpful.

Your hypo symptoms: Do they come on at the same level each time, or does it vary?

Have you considered re-visiting the low-carb/keto way of eating
 

Shaky-kate

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Leg pain can be anything from lack of fitness, to nerve damage to circulatory issues, plus a load more. Of course, yours may be neuropathy, but there are many unpleasant reasons why legs hurt.

I can't see any images in this thread, but no matter.

I've been trying to track back a couple of things in your posts, but with several threads I'm having a bit of a time.

Can I ask what your last HbA1c was - ideally a number or percentage. I can see "normal", but a bit more detail might be helpful.

Your hypo symptoms: Do they come on at the same level each time, or does it vary?

Have you considered re-visiting the low-carb/keto way of eating
Its this post post

I have compressed vertebrae in my lower back but only seems to go mental with my bloods are low, also i used to run 7 miles without leg issues and that was in november, all gone now due to the herna that happened in December. The neurologist said it maybe a nerve damage problem due to so many hypos,

I can't remember that hb test results but go said in normal range what ever that is, that was last year.

Try and explain the hypo levels, rare times they start over 4.3 highest was 4.6 and that was the other day, just jittery, my bodies way of saying pre hypo alert

for years hypos would start at 4.3 last spring was the wosrt it ever got, cleaning the van, would bring on a hypo, would eat and within 30 minutes another hypo. would go hiking, would last about 2.5 miles, 1st feeling is a tummy tingling, then legs, the wobbly, stop check bloods and would be like 3.2, would have food or a energy drink, would take about 20 minutes to come back and would last about 3 miles, then another hypo, each one getting more villant, causing legs to give out. then 3-4 days of constant brain fog.

The very big issue, is getting those bloods back up from low 3s. those lift tablets, they state 3-4 to be back in normal range within 15 minutes, it takes me 8-10 tablets just to get it back in the 5, not much higher, my gp said that should spike my sugar levels through the roof but with no nope.

I,m partly on the keto still bu struggling with so many issues i keep eating some junk foods. my carbs or wholegrain. apart from eating chocolate which i rarely eat i sugar intake is extremely low.

rock and a hard place here, to walk just a few miles i need so much food which defeats the diet or my weight which took me years to go from 83 kg to 70, lost a stone on the keto but struggled with glycogen to power climbing so thats why i went back on some carbs which brought it back.

its like my body can't handle or doesn't product energy for my muscles stores
 

AndBreathe

Master
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Its this post post

I have compressed vertebrae in my lower back but only seems to go mental with my bloods are low, also i used to run 7 miles without leg issues and that was in november, all gone now due to the herna that happened in December. The neurologist said it maybe a nerve damage problem due to so many hypos,

I can't remember that hb test results but go said in normal range what ever that is, that was last year.

Try and explain the hypo levels, rare times they start over 4.3 highest was 4.6 and that was the other day, just jittery, my bodies way of saying pre hypo alert

for years hypos would start at 4.3 last spring was the wosrt it ever got, cleaning the van, would bring on a hypo, would eat and within 30 minutes another hypo. would go hiking, would last about 2.5 miles, 1st feeling is a tummy tingling, then legs, the wobbly, stop check bloods and would be like 3.2, would have food or a energy drink, would take about 20 minutes to come back and would last about 3 miles, then another hypo, each one getting more villant, causing legs to give out. then 3-4 days of constant brain fog.

The very big issue, is getting those bloods back up from low 3s. those lift tablets, they state 3-4 to be back in normal range within 15 minutes, it takes me 8-10 tablets just to get it back in the 5, not much higher, my gp said that should spike my sugar levels through the roof but with no nope.

I,m partly on the keto still bu struggling with so many issues i keep eating some junk foods. my carbs or wholegrain. apart from eating chocolate which i rarely eat i sugar intake is extremely low.

rock and a hard place here, to walk just a few miles i need so much food which defeats the diet or my weight which took me years to go from 83 kg to 70, lost a stone on the keto but struggled with glycogen to power climbing so thats why i went back on some carbs which brought it back.

its like my body can't handle or doesn't product energy for my muscles stores
What is the lowest you have been hypo?

Edited to ask: What had you eaten to get to 8.6 before going out?
 

Shaky-kate

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What is the lowest you have been hypo?

Edited to ask: What had you eaten to get to 8.6 before going out?
lowest ever was in 2013, 1.8 while walking, lucky for me a farmer found me laying on the floor partly unconscious, i felt so bad it was unreal, all ove rthe place, waved at the farmer, i did have some food but it never worked, he had some coffee, called the ambulance and it was that day that started all this off with hospitals. The doctor said that should have killed me, is that right?

often while hiking and in the van doing normal things it goes down to 2.8. eat something does nothing much then back down again.have to eat the house out just to get it to 5 as 4s with me soon crash again.

breakfast was mothers pride bread jam on toast, that tends not to effect me, 40 minutes later the 3.9 doing that short easy walk. the back up to 5.7 on its oly with no food to make it go back up. it did that in the hospital doing that fasting which confused everyone
 

AndBreathe

Master
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lowest ever was in 2013, 1.8 while walking, lucky for me a farmer found me laying on the floor partly unconscious, i felt so bad it was unreal, all ove rthe place, waved at the farmer, i did have some food but it never worked, he had some coffee, called the ambulance and it was that day that started all this off with hospitals. The doctor said that should have killed me, is that right?

often while hiking and in the van doing normal things it goes down to 2.8. eat something does nothing much then back down again.have to eat the house out just to get it to 5 as 4s with me soon crash again.

breakfast was mothers pride bread jam on toast, that tends not to effect me, 40 minutes later the 3.9 doing that short easy walk. the back up to 5.7 on its oly with no food to make it go back up. it did that in the hospital doing that fasting which confused everyone
1.8 is very low, but for most of us, our liver will dump some stored glucose to help nudge us back up towards more normal levels. (Those living with T1 diabetes can be exceptions to that rule.). The great news is you moved along from it.

Your breakfast of toast and jam is very carb heavy and will likely be resulting in a raised blood glucose number. Your 8.6 may or may not be its highest, but without a Libre or such like, it’s hard to tell. Think back to my comparison of the tennis ball and the ceiling.

What happens if you have a protein based breakfast? Ideally a few days on the trot. with RH if the numbers don’t go up, they tend not to overreact and shoot low
 

Shaky-kate

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1.8 is very low, but for most of us, our liver will dump some stored glucose to help nudge us back up towards more normal levels. (Those living with T1 diabetes can be exceptions to that rule.). The great news is you moved along from it.

Your breakfast of toast and jam is very carb heavy and will likely be resulting in a raised blood glucose number. Your 8.6 may or may not be its highest, but without a Libre or such like, it’s hard to tell. Think back to my comparison of the tennis ball and the ceiling.

What happens if you have a protein based breakfast? Ideally a few days on the trot. with RH if the numbers don’t go up, they tend not to overreact and shoot low
I have no idea what would happen was hopping the hospital was going to let me hit the extreme lows.

true with the bloods, it could have been much higher, as for a protein breakfast, being vegy. I means i could of a tin of salmon but would wont mayo withit, never tried it tbh.

Tomorrow, could try a salad with my meat free stuff i have. think i could stuff 90 grams down of protein. nuts and flaxseed with weetbix but with me i need some sugar with wetbix, its **** without lol.

theres something else i haven't mentioned, if i,m ok, when i,m walking or doing normal things i don't sweat as badly, normal sweating which smells normal. but like today and most times i hit a low number that bo smell is very sweat but so strong, nothing like normal bo and its all over my body too.
 

AndBreathe

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I have no idea what would happen was hopping the hospital was going to let me hit the extreme lows.

true with the bloods, it could have been much higher, as for a protein breakfast, being vegy. I means i could of a tin of salmon but would wont mayo withit, never tried it tbh.

Tomorrow, could try a salad with my meat free stuff i have. think i could stuff 90 grams down of protein. nuts and flaxseed with weetbix but with me i need some sugar with wetbix, its **** without lol.

theres something else i haven't mentioned, if i,m ok, when i,m walking or doing normal things i don't sweat as badly, normal sweating which smells normal. but like today and most times i hit a low number that bo smell is very sweat but so strong, nothing like normal bo and its all over my body too.
How many grams of carb is there in each Wheatbix? Weetabix is 13 grams of carb, per 100gr. That makes keto tricky- to remain under 30gr per day doesn’t leave much leeway. Do you eat tofu?
 

AndBreathe

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When on ket, what were you eating in a usual day?
 

Shaky-kate

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How many grams of carb is there in each Wheatbix? Weetabix is 13 grams of carb, per 100gr. That makes keto tricky- to remain under 30gr per day doesn’t leave much leeway. Do you eat tofu?
TBH, doing that diet was a bit silly, yes it stopped the hypos but didn't work on my long distance stuff. when needing a lot of leg power for climbing and running which uses stored glycogen, why the keto doesn't work for that, the ketosis part of fat burning doesn't work very well when needing a load of power with a higher heart rate suddenly, just too slow to react causing lactic acid.

it got so silly that i was eating salads only and 2 tiny meals a day, i felt great until i needed full thrust from my legs lol, tbh can't avoid sugars and for most people that small amount would be ok but for what i did wasn't

never heard of tofu, just looked it up, will give it a try.

a cooked meal would be colliflower, peas and carrots, tasted nice but lacks something.