I WANT TO BE GENETICALLY MODIFIED!

[GraceK]

http://www.dietdoctor.com/its-the-insulin-stupid

This graph makes sense to me.

Apparently, they can genetically modify rats to secrete less insulin from their pancreas and they remain slim no matter what they eat. So when are they going to be able to do that for humans?

My Mum could polish off a decent dinner, pud, cakes, sweets, biscuits and never put an ounce of weight on and never became diabetic. My Dad ate far more healthily than her, never touched sweets or biscuits or cakes yet he piled weight on, was the typical apple shape with a lot of weight around his middle and I suspect he was an undiagnosed diabetic for years, as he had all the complications that go with it. Yet somehow he was never diagnosed.

So there has to be more than just overeating to the obesity problem.

 

[Superchip]

Hi Grace, Chips here !
Followed your link, just watched the vid called ' what the food industry didn't want to see' , on the right hand side of the page.
Very interesting IMHO. With, it must be said ,a decent Vodka and soda in hand !
Did you ever buy that Vodka ?
I should say ' Wodka ' 'cos I'm off to Gdansk in the summer for a wedding, seems like my destiny with the white lightening !
Glad to see that you are still perky young lady !
Read your post, totally agree.

ATB
Chips

 

[GraceK]

:lol: Hiya Chips ... yes I did buy that Wodka but it didn't make me feel good at all, alcohol just doesn't do anything for me. I had about 50ml and topped it up with diet coke but eeeewwww I felt like I'd drunk a whole bottle the next day. Took me about a week to get rid of the muzzy head. So won't be doing that again.

I'm just sticking to diet Coke and flavoured tonic waters mainly.

Well I hope you do OK at the Polish wedding, you do realise you're not allowed to refuse a drink don't you? And that every time anyone proposes a toast you have to get it down your neck whilst joining in with the chorus to 'Sto Lat, Sto Lat ...' which means something like "100 years, 100 years ... your marriage will last for 100 years!"

My late Dad told me that back in his day (he was born in 1912), a Polish wedding could go on for well over a week. Dunno whether that was due to the imbibing of so much Wodka or to the good food but the last one I went to was in 1994 and it was my Goddaughter's wedding. It lasted almost 3 days as far as I remember, guests went home each night to sleep and shower and change and came back the next day for another round of hi-jinx.

Hope you enjoy it. :thumbup:

 

[Superchip]

Grace ! So sorry to hear of your experience with the voddy ! Must have been some bad coke !
Thanks for the tips on Polish customs, I am hoping to go with my youngest (31 ) daughter in late May/June. The venue is the hotel Kozi Grod about 12 miles south west of Gdansk. We might have to book the hotel a bit longer from the sound of it !

I may well come back ' genetically modified ' from over consumption of Wodka !

TTFN Chips

 

[Sid Bonkers]

I too agree that there is a lot we have yet to discover about human metabolism and the causes of weight gain assuming that it is not just over indulgence as it was in my case.


However any genetic modification to make diabetics "secrete less insulin from their pancreas" would have disastrous effects on any T2's, or T1's for that matter, who already have insulin resistance, or am I missing something :?

 

[GraceK]

Grace ! So sorry to hear of your experience with the voddy ! Must have been some bad coke !
Thanks for the tips on Polish customs, I am hoping to go with my youngest (31 ) daughter in late May/June. The venue is the hotel Kozi Grod about 12 miles south west of Gdansk. We might have to book the hotel a bit longer from the sound of it !

I may well come back ' genetically modified ' from over consumption of Wodka !

TTFN Chips

:lol: :lol:

My sister lives up that end of Poland not far from Gdansk, so you can give her a wave from me. But Gdansk isn't the prettiest of places. If you ever get the chance, go to Zakopane where the Tatra Mountains are, it's really beautiful with lots of mountain Tavernas, just follow the violin music and the folk singing and you'll easily find them.

Google images - Tatra Mountains

 

[iHs]

Hi Grace, Chips here !
Followed your link, just watched the vid called ' what the food industry didn't want to see' , on the right hand side of the page.
Very interesting IMHO. With, it must be said ,a decent Vodka and soda in hand !
Did you ever buy that Vodka ?
I should say ' Wodka ' 'cos I'm off to Gdansk in the summer for a wedding, seems like my destiny with the white lightening !
Glad to see that you are still perky young lady !
Read your post, totally agree.

ATB
Chips

For anyone who thinks that drinking alcohol everyday or even occasionally (getting plastered) is an ok thing, should listen to this programme about liver disease being on the increase... A sobbering thought..............

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01phm1s

 

[Superchip]

iHs

A sensible person CAN drink alcohol everyday. Perhaps YOU know somebody that isn't as sensible as the majority of posters on these forums ? If so then I agree with what you say, overdoing anything breaks that adage of moderation in all things.
I drink to enjoy, I've done it for 48 years now, my liver function tests at Papworth are 100% . My local gp asks do I drink anymore, I tell him NO but I don't drink any less !
Methinks that you should perhaps consider that the media are not the best place to listen to pre-conceived tripe, banging on about how Auntie BBC et al are caring for us poor stupid processed food fed rif-raf !



Superchip

 

[phoenix]

Grace,
I assume you mean the flow diagram at the top of the page linked to.
Interestingly the graphic has been subtly altered from the original paper which is here.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3112004536

Stephan Guyenet an obesity researcher has written 2 blog posts on the article There has been a lot of discussion on them including some input/discussion with Guyenet from one of the original researchers. Unfortunately the first set of comments ends up going off at a tangent
In a comment on the second part he (JJ ie Jame's Johnson ) describes what was done (and also suggests what it says and doesn't say about the type of diet necessary to raise insulin levels in non genetically modified rats[people!]
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk ... ks-on.html
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk ... on_13.html

 

[paul-1976]

iHs

A sensible person CAN drink alcohol everyday. Perhaps YOU know somebody that isn't as sensible as the majority of posters on these forums ? If so then I agree with what you say, overdoing anything breaks that adage of moderation in all things.
I drink to enjoy, I've done it for 48 years now, my liver function tests at Papworth are 100% . My local gp asks do I drink anymore, I tell him NO but I don't drink any less !
Methinks that you should perhaps consider that the media are not the best place to listen to pre-conceived tripe, banging on about how Auntie BBC et al are caring for us poor stupid processed food fed rif-raf !

Leave the high horse alone !

Superchip

:clap: Good point well made!

 

[Superchip]

Thank you Sir Tubsolard, a fellow with a keen ear for the truth !

An impressive list of diseases and complications, well done on the cancer bit.
A good HBA1C.

Keep well

Superchip

 

[Yorksman]

But, which gene to modify?

Most adults in northern Europe can drink milk. Most adults in southern Europe cannot. They get sick or get diarrhea. The amount of milk would vary, some being able to cope with half a glass whilst others got sick licking an ice cream. They used to be called Lactose Intolerant. Northern europeans on the other hand can drink large amounts with no ill effects.

As this was studied, it became apparant that other than certain groups, like the nomadic Bedouin of the middle east or the cattle rearing Tutsis of sub saharan Africa, lactose intolerance was the norm. Then it was discovered that these groups, including the northern europeans were still producing an enzyme called lactase which allowed the lactose in milk to be digested. Babies are born with the ability to produce lactase but, at some time in the teens, this ability is switched off.

Northern europeans however still produce lactase in adulthood, above 90% in places like Ireland and Sweden and between 80 and 90% in the UK, Netherlands, Germany, Norway and Denmark. When tested for the lactase enzyme in southern europe however, the frequencies are typically around 5% to 10%, maybe rising to 20% in some places. You can see the areas here http://science.education.nih.gov/supple ... seMap.html and click on the tab 'Fill in samples from other researchers'.

The gene which allows lactase to be produced in northern europe however is different from that of the Bedouin or Tutsi tribes. Each group it appears has its own gene. In europe, it is the C to T transition at 13910, a small copying error of just one amino acid at one location, a copy of Thymine where Cytosine should be but, like a switch, it changes the picture for northern europeans. You get similar differences with many substances to be digested. Famously, several groups don't handle alcohol very well at all.

 

[GraceK]

But, which gene to modify?

Most adults in northern Europe can drink milk. Most adults in southern Europe cannot. They get sick or get diarrhea. The amount of milk would vary, some being able to cope with half a glass whilst others got sick licking an ice cream. They used to be called Lactose Intolerant. Northern europeans on the other hand can drink large amounts with no ill effects.

As this was studied, it became apparant that other than certain groups, like the nomadic Bedouin of the middle east or the cattle rearing Tutsis of sub saharan Africa, lactose intolerance was the norm. Then it was discovered that these groups, including the northern europeans were still producing an enzyme called lactase which allowed the lactose in milk to be digested. Babies are born with the ability to produce lactase but, at some time in the teens, this ability is switched off.

Northern europeans however still produce lactase in adulthood, above 90% in places like Ireland and Sweden and between 80 and 90% in the UK, Netherlands, Germany, Norway and Denmark. When tested for the lactase enzyme in southern europe however, the frequencies are typically around 5% to 10%, maybe rising to 20% in some places. You can see the areas here http://science.education.nih.gov/supple ... seMap.html and click on the tab 'Fill in samples from other researchers'.

The gene which allows lactase to be produced in northern europe however is different from that of the Bedouin or Tutsi tribes. Each group it appears has its own gene. In europe, it is the C to T transition at 13910, a small copying error of just one amino acid at one location, a copy of Thymine where Cytosine should be but, like a switch, it changes the picture for northern europeans. You get similar differences with many substances to be digested. Famously, several groups don't handle alcohol very well at all.

Well that's interesting because my Dad was Polish and Polish people don't drink tea with milk, the drink lemon tea made with fresh lemons. My Mum told me the first time she made a cup of tea for my Dad he burst out laughing and when she asked him why he told her that milky tea was only for pregnant women.

My father never drank milk, but he would drink sour milk (eeeewwww I know). I drank milk in my tea all my life, and all my life I've had gastric issues - until I was diagnosed with diabetes and changed my diet. I couldn't drink tea with milk now if you paid me, the very look and smell of it actually makes me feel ill.

Interestingly also, my father couldn't tolerate alcohol at all, I saw him drink a bottle of beer just the once after which he promptly passed out for hours and was incredibly sick for days after. And alcohol has the same effect on me too, which is why I avoid it.

 

[phoenix]

Perhaps you would want to modifiy your amylase genes. If you became like a Bonobo you might not be able to absorb any starch at all because you couldn't break it down into sugar.

Amylase is an enzyme that is necessary to break down starches into sugars so that we can absorb them. Our saliva contains amylase so this breakdown starts as soon as we start to eat.
It appears that populations that have eaten a lot of starch for thousands of years tend to have higher numbers of people with more copies of the amylase gene than populations that have traditional diets low in starch.
A group pf researchers looked at the number of copies of the gene in the saliva of people from 7 groups of people.

High starch populations included , European-Americans (n = 50) and Japanese (n = 45), and Hadza hunter-gatherers who rely

Low-starch populations included Biaka (n = 36) and Mbuti (n = 15) rainforest hunter-gatherers, Datog pastoralists (n = 17), and the Yakut, a pastoralist/fishing society (n = 25)

Some people in both groups have as few as 2 copies of the gene, others as many as 15. There are some people from low starch areas with high numbers of the gene but there was a small significant difference in the distribution
It's clear in the graph and hard to describe!
A fairly simple explanation with the graphs if you're interested is at this blog. There is quite a lot of discussion in the comments about what this may mean (remember as diabetics we absorb glucose OK so we don't have an insufficiency of amylase )
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 ... evolution/

Humans have on average about 6 copies of the gene, chimpanzees have only 2 copies. Bonobos interestingly have more copies than chimpanzees but these apparently have 'disrupted' coding which the researchers think means they are non functional.
So perhaps you need to modify your genes to become more like a bonobo!
full paper here
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... -44514.pdf

 

[Yorksman]

Thanks for that phoenix, I always find these things interesting. Our genes still provide us with an organ, the appendix, which we don't use but which harks back to our leaf eating days when we lived in trees. Current research is looking at whether or not it is now producing some new enzymes in some humans which is of benefit to digesting more modern foods. Fascinating to see evolution in action. The lactase persistent allele is only a few thousand years old but achieved high numbers because of the number of people who benefitted from having it in northern europe.

 

[GraceK]

Thanks for that phoenix, I always find these things interesting. Our genes still provide us with an organ, the appendix, which we don't use but which harks back to our leaf eating days when we lived in trees. Current research is looking at whether or not it is now producing some new enzymes in some humans which is of benefit to digesting more modern foods. Fascinating to see evolution in action. The lactase persistent allele is only a few thousand years old but achieved high numbers because of the number of people who benefitted from having it in northern europe.

As I was reading your post I thought of something my Mum would have said ... "Hang on to that, don't throw it away, you never know when it might come in handy!" Could this also apply to appendix? :lol:

 

[Yorksman]

"Hang on to that, don't throw it away, you never know when it might come in handy!" Could this also apply to appendix? :lol:

:lol: Very good.

 

[AMBrennan]

Did the study measure BG levels in rats? Plus, it seems to me that they just made rats with induced t1...

@phoenix: For the same effect, you could just take laxatives with every meal. There's a reason we don't do that.

 

[phoenix]

@phoenix: For the same effect, you could just take laxatives with every meal. There's a reason we don't do that

yep, maybe not if we ate the same diet as a Bonobos :lol:

Yorksman; there is an hypothesis that T1 is an adaptation that provided a survival advantage during the Ice Age. High glucose in the blood acting as a sort of antifreeze.
New Theory Places Origin of Diabetes in an Age of Icy Hardships
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/healt ... d=all&_r=0
The sweet thing about Type 1 diabetes: a cryoprotective evolutionary adaptation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15893109

 

[paul-1976]

@phoenix: For the same effect, you could just take laxatives with every meal. There's a reason we don't do that

yep, maybe not if we ate the same diet as a Bonobos :lol:

Yorksman; there is an hypothesis that T1 is an adaptation that provided a survival advantage during the Ice Age. High glucose in the blood acting as a sort of antifreeze.
New Theory Places Origin of Diabetes in an Age of Icy Hardships
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/17/healt ... d=all&_r=0
The sweet thing about Type 1 diabetes: a cryoprotective evolutionary adaptation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15893109

I'd choose a good coat and thermals over Autoimmune diabetes personally if we had another Ice age! :lol: But thanks for the link as I'd never heard of that as a concept..Quite interesting!