1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

I wish I had listened to the people in this forum...

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by memememeiii, Jan 14, 2017.

  1. memememeiii

    memememeiii Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    83
    A couple of years ago already, people in this group recommended that I start testing my own blood sugar. The NHS doctor told me not to do so, as they didn't want me to become obsessed with my numbers, etc. unnecessarily. I didn't do it, and in fact, I was pretty careless all around about my glucose control.

    I realize it has been 5 years now since my diagnosis of pre-diabetes/diabetes (Type 2) and at 90 lbs overweight I haven't made progress. I had an allergy attack that scared me quite badly recently, a new low as I couldn't breathe, and that just pushed to run a full battery of tests.

    This follows me getting 'resolved' to reverse Type 2 Diabetes in the summer, but also to 'see where my numbers were' if I went completely off Metformin, which I did for about 4 months. My numbers went from 5-ish to 7.

    Two months ago, I saw another endocrine specialist, and he told me I needed to increase my metformin from 2x/500 mg/day to 2x/750 mg/day - as it was not enough to be on the minimum amount. I read about this, and it seems about right. Secondly, I refused to do a statin, as I felt I was getting leg cramps from it. Since coming off, the leg cramps have gone away. He said women who are not menopausal can come off the statin because it's proven still not to be effective for them. For men at that age point, yes, very effective. For women who are perimenopausal, no. So, he agreed to this. I refuse to be overmedicated!!!

    I also suffer from rosacea and have been doing an antibiotic (Doxycycline) for at least 2 years now, on and off, or Lymecycline, or something. Alternating. I'm now coming off that, as a Scottish nurse friend said it's vile, while yet another foreign doctor has said, no, it's not. (I'm so confused, but coming off it to try and see if my body can stabilize).

    Last summer, I started getting severe abdominal pain over the liver and basically had ultrasounds which revealed a fatty liver, and after being tested fully the Spire doctor in the UK ruled out anything serious but Irritable Bowel Syndrome - or the precursor to it. A little DulcoEase prescribed, and mostly I've not done much but watch that I don't eat raw veggies too much on their own. This problem comes and goes.

    All this to say, I'm trying to sort this out. It's been a reality check to realize that my numbers on the Fasting Glucose testing have been averaging 120-125 for the past three or four days. Now, this is while cutting calories. Eggs in the morning. Konjac (these are the noodles that are high fibre, low calories) noodles and a tin of tomatoes boiled down into a sauce for lunch. A yoghurt fruit salad combo - pure yoghurt and, yes, fruit in the afternoon at break, and I had quinoa pasta again yesterday with a ratatouille. The last night before this last result of 123, at about 10 PM, I had some chicken, steak and pasta salad and corn at a BBQ. My daytime meals were smallish.

    I know I have read that people who go full on paleo seem to be turning around their numbers and losing weight. My question is, as I continue to battle with this bulge, and NEED to get it off (it's making me so uncomfortable and fed up): can you reverse Type II Diabetes after 5 years in?

    If you can't do that, can you stabilize for life to the point of coming off Metformin?

    And what of the heart risks? I have high cholesterol, too, right now...

    Cholesterol Total: 239* (140-200)
    HBA1C: 6.7* (4.5-6.4)
    HDL: 47 (40-59)
    LDL: 140* (0-100)
    SGPT (ALT): 150* (9-52)
    Triglycerides: 256* (35-150)
    Glucose (RBS/Random
    Blood Sugar): 229* (75-140)

    White Blood Count: 11 (3.5-11)
    Hemoglobin (HB, HGB): 15.8 (12-16)
    Platelet Count: 368 (150-450)

    Current Weight: 225 lbs
    Height: 5'5"
    Female
    Age: 49

    So, the other question is this: am I being stupid by coming off the statins, etc.?

    Any thoughts before I continue to review this with doctors and continue to pursue dietary/exercise approaches to fixing this?

    I have lost 8 lbs in a week, and now things will slow down but I got a good start. My colleagues and I are starting a fitness challenge for the new year. Slow and steady. I bought a fitness band. Here we go.

    I wish I had followed this group's advice, because I feel I have been set back 2-3 years in my progress by my own stupidity and this may be completely detrimental to reversing T2D.

    Thank you for your kind thoughts.

    MM
     
    • Hug Hug x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    #1 memememeiii, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:29 AM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
  2. Squire Fulwood

    Squire Fulwood Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    6,081
    Likes Received:
    4,830
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Can you reverse Type II diabetes? Not if you don't do anything about it. Testing and amending your diet can delay it and give you better numbers now.

    Can you come off Metformin? You should figure out whether any side effects make them difficult to live with and talk to your doctor about it. If you can tolerate it then most doctors seem loathe to stop them for some reason.

    The link between cholesterol and heart disease is very weak. There is a graph that shows that more people die with low cholesterol. The optimum is about 5.4 or so.

    It is controversial but many people have adverse side effects from Statins. The evidence either way is very murky indeed. Only you can decide since it is another pill that the doctors hand out like sweets. I am intolerant of them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

    Messages:
    25,161
    Likes Received:
    30,633
    Trophy Points:
    298
    It's a bit difficult to answer your questions re cholesterol because the units here in the UK are different. However, from the normal ranges you give you are higher than normal on all counts and I would be very unhappy with those triglyceride levels.

    Reverse is a controversial word. I prefer to use well controlled. It is possible to be well controlled and to stay off diabetes meds. Many of us here have done just that. Diet is the key, and unless you cut down on the carbs and test, test, test, you probably won't manage it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    10,129
    Likes Received:
    16,128
    Trophy Points:
    298
    You don't need to go full paleo to improve things if you don't want to. Reducing carbs will help immensely and if you feel hungry then add a little fat. I have found that it was carbs that were giving me fatty liver and also putting my cholesterol figures up too. Some here find they lose weight following Low Carb High Fat without counting calories. I use myfitness pal to record my carb, protein and fat intake daily.

    I am still taking Metformin because for me it acts as an appeteite suppressant and also encourages weight loss through reducing insulin resistance. It only has a tiny effect on my blood glucose readings, but every litttle helps.

    Personally I would never take a statin as I don't believe they are effecitve in women, but it really is up to the indivdual to decide.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. srobertson06

    srobertson06 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    752
    Trophy Points:
    133
    I would say buy a testing kit - reduce you carbs intake and use a book and record your results along with recording what you have eaten. To start to learn it helps to test before you have eaten anything in the morning, then test again 2 hours after you begin to eat anything. Take a test before each meal and 2 hours after starting to eat - so to start a lot of testing and recording but as you learn you can reduce the testing.
    These changes will help you to learn, it will help you understand and maybe make changes that improve your health.
    I took the slow route to reducing carbs and it took longer to get to a point where it started to show improvements but if you feel all you can cope with is small changes then do it that way.
    I am no expert and my advice above is what worked for me, other people on this site are extremely knowledgeable and the advice to test is what they informed me to try.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. jonbvn

    jonbvn Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    553
    Likes Received:
    1,359
    Trophy Points:
    138
    Use a book? With a writing quill and blotter?

    Time to join the 21st century
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. Phoenix55

    Phoenix55 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    593
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hi @memememeiii . You have a choice which way to go. You can carry on as you are at the moment and watch the medication increase and the side effects of drugs and diabetes. Or you can get yourself a meter and start keeping a record of what you have eaten, exercise and your bg. After a couple of weeks, if not sooner, it will become clear what foods your body will no longer tolerate. The beauty of low carb is that you don't feel hungry because eating healthy fats leaves you feeling full. There is support online, and your colleagues will be surprised to see you tucking in to full fat foods, even cream from time to time. The weight comes off gradually, I lost a pound a week until I stepped up the amount of fat I ate. If the numbers scare you at first that alone is reason to do something to change them, and if you stick with it they will change.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. memememeiii

    memememeiii Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Thank you all for the encouragement to keep at it. I have been given a glucose testing kit and strips for 2 months, twice a day. I have noticed so far that my glucose levels are ALL OVER THE PLACE. But yesterday after having two sandwiches with bread in the daytime, lots of dried nuts and fruit (it was a bingey day) and then a plate of quinoa pasta at night and for bed frozen raspberries with a bit of cream...omg...my morning blood sugar was 136 or 7.5 this morning. So annoying!!!

    I have been replacing pasta with thin konjac noodles, but frankly hate them. It just doesn't do the trick. So, if that is what triggered all this, then obviously the next step is to ramp up the paleo more.

    I will continue to test and see where this goes. My levels go higher when I fast a lot in between meals, or don't eat much. 113-125 (6.27-6.94) in the mornings. More on the high end there.

    What do people do for snacks, etc.? I was doing fruit and yoghurt. My body craves this fresh food, frankly. But then I see these numbers and just can't get my head around what to do. :(

    MM
     
    • Hug Hug x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,546
    Likes Received:
    6,351
    Trophy Points:
    178
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    21,795
    Likes Received:
    35,046
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Hi @memememeiii

    Please forgive me if I have muddled you up with someone else - but are you the same person with a similar name who has previously posted about trying very low carb diets, finding them really difficult to stick to, and rebounding?

    If you are not, please ignore what I am about to say. But if you ARE that person (hello again, and welcome back :) ) and can I make a few suggestions? Please don't try and do what you did the last few times, because the odds are that you will repeat the cycle and end up rebounding again, with another bout of self-loathing and denial, and end up worse off again. Believe me, I am speaking with the voice of experience.

    Instead, have a good think about what happened last time, and do it differently.

    For instance:
    What is it about your previous diets that went wrong? Too severe? Too boring? Too flavourless? Too restrictive? Too much hunger? Too high targets? Weight loss didn't match expectations? Social pressure? Food cravings?
    - write down a list and have a think. Then put together a plan that won't press that trigger this time
    (for me, very low calorie always leaves me hungry and craving carbs. yet very low carb eliminates both of those problems. so my diet becomes 10x easier to stick to)

    Also, what was it that triggered the rebound?
    Was it a social gathering with tempting food? Anger? not having a snack when you got really hungry one day? Boredom? Someone criticising you, your food choice, your body? Advice from a doc? A friend? Family?

    If you can remember, and work it out, you stand a much better chance of not repeating these cycles.

    Hope that helps!
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,395
    Likes Received:
    1,693
    Trophy Points:
    198
    To get a perspective on this...have a look at what Dr Jason Fung shared about glucose level rising after fasting...
    https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/
    Normal glucose/insulin level is rather achievable and maintainable once we understand what raises it and triggers uncontrollable hunger.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. memememeiii

    memememeiii Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    83
    It was me, and I will have a think about all that. That's very useful advice. I'm motivated now and in a large staff fitness challenge - biggest loser type thing - and we're all supporting each other. I just don't know what to make of the carbs/protein/sugar thing anymore. But I'm feeling motivated to try again and figure this out and ... lose weight.
     
    • Hug Hug x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  13. memememeiii

    memememeiii Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Useful feedback on the Dawn Phenomenon. I wonder if this is temporarily high for a reason or will improve with weight loss.
     
    • Hug Hug x 1
  14. Phoenix55

    Phoenix55 Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    593
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Personally I found that my fasting numbers improved as the weight came off.

    I hope that your staff challenge is set for this time next year. The winner should be the person who not only loses the weight but more importantly keeps it off. A crash diet to lose weight for the summer may work in the short term. Personally I chose to be happy with a slow but steady weight loss. It meant that I was not hungry, my skin had time to adjust to the loss and the exercise so did not leave me with unsightly stretch marks or 'wobbly bits'. By keeping the weight off for a year it shows that the 'diet' and exercise have become a new way of life and so sustainable in the long term. That does not mean that I am not tempted when I am away from home or over Christmas but I am learning that it may be OK to slip very occasionally. In the UK it has also meant that I have found a summer and a winter diet with corresponding exercise, mostly walking - I do not do gyms or running. Walking is cheap, fills up the rest of the lunch hour when I might be tempted to a 'treat', can be done following an online leader or outside by myself.

    I also learnt to look back only to learn, focus on the future and where you want to be, you will surprise yourself with what you can achieve.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    #14 Phoenix55, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:11 AM
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  15. ckneppel

    ckneppel Prediabetes · Member

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    43
    You are eating a LOT of carbs and driving up your blood glucose. Get a test kit and learn to eat to your meter. Lower your carbs until your blood sugar stays below 140/7.8 at all times. Blood glucose above 140/7.8 begins to kill pancreatic bata cells that you need to make insulin. If a person is pre-diabetic they have already lost more than 60% of their beta cells (www.bloodsugar101.com), so you need to do whatever you can to stop losing more and becoming full-on diabetic (you are already with FBG over 125/7.0) You need Metformin as your liver is blind to the insulin you do make and is confused and is making more glucose and driving up your levels - Metformin helps with that. Dr. Ralph DeFronzo is an expert on diabetes and has treatment protocols that can help you if you can get the old-school doctors (most of them) to go along with it! Good luck and cut those carbs. (Dr. Ralph DeFronzo ). If you eat low-carb and take Metformin, the weight should start coming off.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. johnw26

    johnw26 · Member

    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    23
    Stay off statins, research statins or join some of the facebook statin user groups. There are very strong food and pharmaceutical lobbies that are exploiting our health. My gp who put me on the regular Simvastatin dose told me they were "perfectly safe" when I complained that I struggled to walk 4 miles and climb stairs whereas previously a 12 mile hike was my norm. Spotted I was limping and long series of test with consultant saying I would need a knee replacement as the pain increased. I was on 8 Tramadol (opiod) a day when I quit statins and had a quick recovery That was 6 years ago. I can now walk 12 miles again, I changed surgery and finally got a decent gp who found I was prediabetic. I have lost a stone with a minimum dose of Metformin and following Jason Fung's fasting advice and the advice on reducing inflamation in Giulia Enders book Gut
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  17. Deespee23

    Deespee23 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    278
    Likes Received:
    208
    Trophy Points:
    83
    As ckneppel says, you are still eating a lot of carbs.....nothing will change until you address this. In terms of being motivated to make a significant change, have a look at THIS.....just my 2p worth.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. memememeiii

    memememeiii Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yes, I had my skin go flabby the last time I lost fast. It's definitely a real concern. Thanks for this. I agree. We do run this annually, every Jan. It's my 4th time.
     
    • Hug Hug x 1
  19. memememeiii

    memememeiii Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    83
    This is good advice. I am really curious about the scientific research about women and statins. Any idea what's out there? I felt the same way on Simvastatin. - rubbish. Terrible. I was getting leg cramps in the night and that was IT. I will definitely get more focused on this and look at your suggestions.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  20. JuliaAR

    JuliaAR Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Hi,
    It sounds as if you are an ardent noodle and pasta lover. Have you tried a more healthy alternative by getting a spiralizer and using courgettes to make a noodle-like vegetable alternative? It tastes really good, takes minutes to prepare and is great with all sorts of dishes including bolognese sauce (homemade from scratch of course) pesto (again homemade) and lots of other dishes. Aubergines make a good alternative to flat pasta like lasagne and grated cauliflower is an excellent rice replacement. If you want a good reference to low carbohydrate meals there are some excellent links on this site and also www.dietdoctor.com.
    As suggested above the 10 week introduction to low carb, high fat diet on this site is a great way to get to know which foods make a better choice for you. As it is spread over 10 weeks it gradually takes you from wherever you are now on the healthy food scale so that you can build a better eating style slowly.
    The low carb diet really seems to help with weight loss from what I have read on this site. However, whilst this is important, more important is to get your blood glucose under control and I go along with what everyone else had said about blood testing. Try making a dairy either with an app or download the diary from this site and fill it in manually. Remember to note down your feelings (i.e. stress, anxiety etc) as this makes quite a difference to glucose levels and test at different times of the day, before and after meals to see if there are any patterns.
    I was diagnosed about 6 months ago as prediabetic and I have found that going on the low carb high fat diet and testing often has helped me to work out which foods are working for me and which give me glucose spikes.
    Good luck! :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook