I'd really like your honest opinion...

[Sam72]

I know I shouldn't have been surprised after reading some posts on this form but I saw the practice nurse at the GP today and she said:

Eat carbs with every meal
Eat low fat and avoid dairy
Eat fruit such as a banana for snacks
Digestive and rich tea biscuits are ok
Low carb is "silly" because it's unhealthy
Eating fruit is more important than the fact it spikes my sugar levels
Your body cannot function properly on low carbs
It's not possible to reduce fasting glucose levels from 21 to 8.5 in four weeks as any proper reduction takes at least 3 months ( is my meter wrong then?)

I've come out feeling despondent and confused. Should I take on board what she says and trust that the professionals know best or trust the fact that I'm an intelligent woman and can research and decide for myself? She has booked me an appt with the doctor first thing on mon because I think she thinks I'm stupid and difficult - to talk about healthy eating and told me not to self test any more as it's misleading.

I do NOT want to have diabetes. I want to control my levels as soon as possible so I don't get complications. I do NOT want to have to to take medication long term or eventually take insulin if I can help it. Why aren't the NHS supporting an approach that seems endorsed by lots of people controlling their diabetes and/or doing the research?

I came out feeling like I wanted to cry or punch someone! For a few minutes I thought sod it- I'll just eat what I like because what's the point. I know this is stupid but I just felt so downhearted by her negativity after feeling so much better and like I had achieved positive things by lowering my BG.

Sorry everyone. Rant over.

Am I being naive and arrogant not agreeing with NHS advice?

What do I say to the doc on Monday? I just feel like I don't want to go back.

 

[Lamont D]

The reason this forum is such a great place is because most of us has had that appointment!
It is still your choice, but educate yourself about what members have said especially about reducing carbs and the effects it has on BSLs.
I was on that sort of diet for years and I never lost weight. I changed to a low carb med fat diet because I had to. I've lost 3 stone and I have never felt fitter and healthier than I have for decades.
It is your choice, please don't take her advice, read the success stories on this forum.

 

[zand]

Well this is my opinion, every one of those statements by your nurse is incorrect. I would just keep on going, in a few months you will be probably given the same label as me....'best diabetic patient - I wish they were all like you' So I would go to your appointments, listen, come home and then decide what you want to do. As you said you are an intelligent woman....I think you know what you need to do already. Remember we are all here to support you.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Am I being naive and arrogant not agreeing with NHS advice?

Not in my opinion you are not. I have questioned some of that advice in meetings with the HCP's and in one case got no reply at all and in others secret agreement with what I said but they have no option but to toe the party line. I have no doubt that there are some of them who actually believe what they say since they read it in a book.

I found the best argument was just to turn up having knocked 20+ points off my Hba1c and see what they think of that. On one or two other occasions I have nodded and smiled and carried on with my method when I get home. There is no way they would upset me.

 

[annelise]

Sam, I think you should first and foremost trust that you are 'an intelligent women' (re your post).

Nobody (and I again emphazise nobody) will need to include carbs as a major macronutrient in their diet. Anyway, about half of your protein intake will eventually turn into carbs (but at a slower pace).

And also most vegetables have carbs – some to a lesser degree than others. (I personally try to avoid vegs with roots in the ground, e.g. potatoes, beets, carrots) and bread, rice and pasta. With regard to fruit, I have found that I can tolerate a few berries but bananas will send me skyrocketing.

Were I you, I would just politely nod at the potential recommendations you will get from your health provider, and then follow your own ways. – The diet you will eventually be following will be your proof of the pudding – no arguing against it when you come back with good numbers. Best of luck from

annelise

 

[Brunneria]

My honest opinion is that I would bet that nurse is not diabetic or prediabetic.
So she doesn't face blindness, kidney failure, gangrene and amputation if she follows the wrong advice.

Harsh, but true. In my opinion.

It will always be your choice what foods you put in your mouth. But you can base that choice on your own personal experience, can't you?

You've been low carbing for a while.

If you want to test whether the NHS high carb diet works for your body, then eat that way for a few days.

Record everything you have eaten.
Test rigorously.
Record the readings.
Record the effect the food has on your body - any energy swings, sleep pattern changes, digestive changes...
Then
Make your own, independent decision.

I'll bet you go back to low carbing.

Probably worth keeping all your notes and results too, so that next time a health care professional starts parroting the party line, you can pull them out of your pocket and show them what happens to your body, if you do what they say.

 

[Sancho panza]

You are an intelligent woman and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
As noshed says most of us have had similar conversations with our health care "professionals"
Only you can decide what's right for you, I told my nurse I was self testing she was ok about it and asked to see a printout looked at it and said carry on with what you are doing as it's obviously working.
Some drs and nurses seem to be more progressive and willing to accept how we manage our condition some unfortunately not.
At the end of the day the only person you have to answer too is yourself don't let narrow minded people upset you its they who have the problem not you.

 

[jack412]

I'd trust your meter and your next blood test. at the same time, I wouldn't be afraid of medication. at the end of the day we need to get out bloods within range, any way we can

 

[mo53]

Hello Sam. I think you know yourself that the results you have had are brilliant! If I was you I would have been expecting the total opposite reaction. I have had the same conversation as you and have to return at the end of the month for round 2 lol ! I hope you are feeling a bit better.

 

[sanguine]

I have to say Sam that's one of the best examples I've seen of a DN who just understands nothing about what diabetes entails.

I think now that you know the right answer!

 

[sally and james]

No wonder the NHS is in crises. Everyday, hundreds of diabetic nurses give out the sort of information quoted by the OP and thousands of T2 diabetics do what they say. They remain ill and fat. They develop complications and progress onto stronger drugs. As a tax payer and as someone who might need the NHS for something one day, it makes me MAD!

I could probably go on all night about the "advice" Sam received, but I'll just comment on one item:
"Your body cannot function properly on low carbs".
Up to 18 months ago, I fed my husband a diet of fruit, pasta, baked spuds, porridge, wholemeal bread etc. He was a pathetic specimen, over weight, the energy of a slug and barely the strength to lift his own briefcase. Then he got a diabetes diagnosis and went Low Carb. Now he's an energetic gym bunny, who can lift his own weight (and, no, he doesn't now weigh less than a briefcase), he's pursuing various academic interests and sex has returned to the (very long term) marriage. I call that proper functioning.
Sally

 

[sanguine]

What do I say to the doc on Monday? I just feel like I don't want to go back.

Ask him what progress is being made by the diabetics on his books who are following the nurse's advice.

 

[Brunneria]

Ask him what progress is being made by the diabetics on his books who are following the nurse's advice.

YES!!!

And volunteer your body for a long term (one person) comparative study.

 

[satindoll]

Hi Sam,
How do you feel in yourself, clear headed, lively, ready for the day ahead when you wake up, well inside, happy with what you put inside yourself.
Come on now if the answer is yes to the above then as brunerria and the others have said your improvement over the past few days should be telling you the road you should follow, don't let them put you off your chosen path, you know intimately your body they don't, as I've said to you before
Go Girl

 

[jack412]

Ask him what progress is being made by the diabetics on his books who are following the nurse's advice.

LOL, now you are just being mean, but I think I have see what the problems is sam, you have a meter and you're type 2..it's bad for T2 to self test, everyone knows that at NHS

 

[satindoll]

As Above but not only that you have a brain and you ask questions, t2's should sit in a corner and do as they are told right

 

[Kat100]

So much to read about and think about ...
Lots of different diets people follow to find out what works for them ...
I can only share mine ...
Reduced carbs ...I am sometimes low sometimes medium ...and GI veggie eating ....
There are other diets talked about .as well ..I find that after 18 months of being diagnosed I am still learning all the time ...so much to take in ...
But again it is all individual ...you will find what is right for you ....now you have made me think,about that 70% chocolate ...

I have also read some people review and change their diets ...according to health need ...
For example ...18 months ago I did not ever eat a banana ...never ..now one can keep me going depending what I have or need to eat ...

The strange thing was I always ate blueberries ....

Because diet is so individual you really will know yourself ....wishing you all the best ...

 

[donnellysdogs]

Personally, if this was me..and GP was anti low carbing I would:

A) refer him to look at a study that a GP in Southport did and the results from it with his research into his patients with T2 and low carbing.

B) ask whether he would consider you against a similar T2 in practice who doesn't low carb and see whose levels of glucose, cholesterol etc have improved the most in 6 months. If you are right that you have the best control that he will ask the nurse to restrict the advice she gives you...

C) Majority of good meat, dairy products, veg etc has all the vital vitamins in.. Ask his reason why you should need empty value carbs ie pasta, chips and pies ....and especially anything that in its processing has transfats added etc.

(Would be even better to print off a copy of Southport GP study and findings and ask him to review it in his own time, as you have had to do).

Depends how well you know your GP. I know mine very well and they don't mind me speaking my mind providing that my blood levels of anything don't give concern from how I manage my diabetes.

Believe in yourself, you are intelligent and you live with D, not the GP.

 

[izzzi]

When @Sam72 joined the forum I new how interesting things might be regarding her health progress.
I am now waiting to hear what happens at the Doctors.
Sam72 may be difficult (I hope) but no way stupid.
I am also sure Sam72 will take some evidence to show her doctor, Yet I have a strange feeling the Doctor will know Sam72 is intelligent and will probably agree with her in some sort of way.
Best of luck on Monday

 

[AndBreathe]

Sam - I was diagnosed 3 weeks before leaving the UK for 9 months, so you can imagine the whistle-stop tour I had of diabetic nurse, optician etc.

On diagnosis I asked about testing, to be told I didn't need to, but I could have some urine test strips - which never showed anything up. They only work at 10+. By the time I saw the nurse almost a week later, I had bought a glucose meter in Boots and started testing. Dr Google taught me how to do that bit. During my appointment with the nurse, I got all the usual messages and by the look on her face you'd have thought I had taken up home vivisection, rather than self finger prick testing. She asked what my levels were, and I responded. She looked at me disbelievingly and with the most sneering of expressions asked when I had last eaten and asked if she could test me there and then. She patently thought I was lying. I wanted to kill her for that look alone. I can't recall the score; it was about 7 or 8, I think, but certainly a significantly better score than she was expecting. The look of abject horror on her face confirmed my earlier view, and at that point I lost all respect for her. But, fortunately, 4500 miles was far enough to ensure I wouldn't encounter her unexpectedly!!

In the end, I split my trip and came home for a couple of weeks after 4 months. By then, I had reduced my carb intake and had a handle of what worked, and didn't for me. My HbA1c had reduced from 73 to 37. Lipids, BP weight and everything else was well within targets and non-diabetic ranges. The only downside of Nurse ratchet having retired was that I couldn't see her face that time. I had no baggage with the nurse I saw at that point, so it was a simpler appointment. All she could say was that I should keep doing as I was.

Since then, my bloods have further moderated to 34 and 32. I don't think I'll be going any lower.

You have to be true to yourself. If you want to demonstrate exactly how your bloods go, you could decide on a 24 hour, low carb, meal plan, and test to your protocols - fasting, before and after meals, then repeat the process but adding carbs to the same(ish) menu and test again in your usual way. When I say add carbs, I mean, have potato, chips or rice with the steak or pork chop. But, keep the core foods the same both days.

I would do the low carb day first, followed by the carby day, then revert to your low carb plan. That way, you can comparatively demonstrate the impacts to your doctor. OK, it's an incredibly brief trial, but if you take your food diary and blood scores with you - probably combining the food and blood diaries, running the days side-by-side.

When they say we shouldn't test, I asked if they would be happy to go along with that if it was them. I sort of got, well, I'm different. They could not explain, to my satisfaction exactly what the valid differentiators were.

Sadly we all go through this bit. It's pretty rubbish.