In Ketosis, off meds, blood sugar readings still high.

[Dave359]

Has anyone else tried the keto diet?, I’ve lost over 50 lbs but blood sugar readings still high even after the dawn phenomenon, after 5 months I thought I would reverse my type 2 diabetes.

 

[HSSS]

Welcome.

Lots of us have, and even those that don’t do keto most do some sort of low carb. Drs will tell you it’s all about weight, and that definitely helps, but eating and failing to deal effectively with carbs is the real issue. Weight loss tends to follow sorting bloods out for many.

A few links

Can I suggest you take a good look at LCHF ie low carb higher fat (then typically recommended not blocks of lard high!) methods of eating (keto is just a version of this). It helps many of us lose significant amounts of weight, if desired, keep our numbers down and for some even eliminate medications and achieve remission and reduce or improve complications. Try clicking these links for more detailed explanations that are well worth readings

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog/jokalsbeek.401801/ for info including low carb made simple

And https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/category/success-stories-and-testimonials.43/ to show it really works and for motivation

and https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-have-you-eaten-today.75781/ for food ideas

also https://www.dietdoctor.com/ for more food ideas and general info of carb content of foods. Lots of other websites for recipes out there too. Just use the term low carb or keto with whatever you fancy.


Also it’s very important to be able to check for yourself what’s happening so you can make the necessary adjustments day to day and meal by meal rather than wait 3, 6 or even 12 months and then have no idea what had what effect. Getting a blood glucose meter is the only way to do this (no matter what contradictory advice you may have heard - it’s usually budget based rather than anything more scientific). Please ask if you want any guidance on this.



IMPORTANT FOR ANYONE ON MEDS CONSIDERING LOWERING CARBS: if you lower your carbs then any glucose lowering meds may need to be adjusted accordingly to make sure you aren’t taking more than your new diet requires. It can cause a hypo if you have more gliclazide or insulin etc (this is not relevant for metformin on its own) than your new carb intake requires. Keep a close eye on your numbers and do this with your dr’s knowledge. Please don’t be put off by an ill informed out dated rubbishing of low carb diets or being told you should eat carbs to match meds, it should be the other way around.

 

[HSSS]

Sorry can I just check as your post and title have confused me on rereading so the answers to the below might help suggestions

What medications are you on? Diabetic ones, statins? Steroids?
Are you currently already keto? How do you check ketones?
Is this how you lost the 50lb? Much more to lose?
What sort of blood levels are we talking. Do you test yourself?
And were you ever checked for type 1 with GAD antibody and c peptide tests?

 

[Dave359]

I stopped taking insulin 5 months ago, blood results came back 7.5% diabetic team over the moon, I’m waiting to check A1C levels because I stopped taking Metformin last month and Gliclazide the month before so I know I won’t get a true picture for a few months.
Over the last week my fasted BG has risen to 17+ from 8 or 9
I have been “treating” my diabetes for nearly 20 years so I know it’s going to take some time.
I don’t think I’ve ever been tested for type 1.
I have actually gone from being insulin resistant and weight gain to over 23 stone, I then went on Byetta, lost 5 stone was getting fitter then had a cardiac arrest 6 years ago, it has only been over the last few months that I have felt well enough to drop more weight, I’m currently 14st 12lb I’m 6’ 2” and 65 years old hoping to get down to 13 stone.
Sorry a lot to take in, this is the very abridged version.

 

[Fenn]

Hi, LCHF or Keto is terrific and effective, however it does not mean I can stop meds unfortunately, some people (like me) just don't seem to get cured by it long term.

I would not assume it WILL reverse/cure/put into remission DB, best to check your numbers and adjust meds accordingly I would say.

Best of luck.

 

[Dave359]

Thanks for sharing & replying, misery loves company I know, but it’s nice to know I’m not the only one.

 

[kokhongw]

Over the last week my fasted BG has risen to 17+ from 8 or 9

Have you checked your C-peptide or fasting insulin levels? You may need some basal insulin to keep the fasting level in check. Do consult your healthcare provider.

 

[Dave359]

I wouldn’t know how to do that

 

[Brunneria]

Hi Dave,

My view is that, wonderful as LC is, it isn’t a universal panacea, and that it doesn’t guarantee reversal or a drug free existence.

If your blood glucose is going as high as 17mmol/l with a LC diet, then the diet isn’t working sufficiently well.
Either you need to look at what you are eating, and reduce carbs further or you need meds. Or both.

You mentioned that you have dropped Metformin and Gliclazide recently, and you are expecting that you won't see the full consequences for months. I don’t think that is the case. Glic works on much shorter timescales than that (think a day, not a week) and metformin will be out of your system in a couple of weeks (approx). Nor does metformin do all that much to lower blood glucose. Although it does help reduce glucose being dumped from the liver (dawn phenomenon is an example where liver dumps happen)

I would urge you to reconsider the meds, and get the help of your health care team in reintroducing them as necessary, to get your blood glucose back on target.

 

[Dave359]

I was beginning to think along those same lines, thanks for your input.

 

[AloeSvea]

Hi @Dave359 - whether we are able to significantly lower our blood glucose readings longterm to healthy levels, and go into remission/reversal, 'just' on losing weight is a lot more complex than you might think.

My understanding is - the more "deranged" your blood glucose system is (which includes your blood lipids, and hormones involved - with glucagon a star, and stress hormones being major players), and on how long it has been deranged, the longer it can take to correct. It's the most positive perspective to have - that it is ultimately correctible, and the one I hope is true, for folks like me who do not have mild obesity or age related diabetes. (Excuse the word 'mild' but it is not my own choice, but that of endocrinologists at Lund University in Sweden, whose terminology I am using.)

I realise that it may not be correctible, but only time will tell.

And I see correcting it is to eat less carbs, as low as you can personally go, in order to be as slim/body-fat free as you can go,(emphasis on 'as you can'! - a very personal thing that), in order to replace the sick fat cells with healthy ones (fat cells take about ten years to be replaced, so the more sick fat cells you have...), and all the while giving the poor ol' over-producing beta cells in our pancreases a break, which have to churn out all that insulin, and not wear it out in the process. Is my understanding of the process, simplified. (And metformin can help heaps with this process, not considering drawbacks of longterm medicating and masking symptoms here, for the sake of argument.)

Speaking as such a metabolically deranged person myself of course. .

 

[Gazcart]

Has anyone else tried the keto diet?, I’ve lost over 50 lbs but blood sugar readings still high even after the dawn phenomenon, after 5 months I thought I would reverse my type 2 diabetes.

Hi I am new first post, I am 53, diabetic (maybe) for 2 years, I started on Met and Glip and Keto and had bloods under control now they average at about 14 all the time! I am 13st 5 6ft 3 and struggle to keep weight ON. I eat super low carbs living off high fat and it's not working for me. I have to eat around 3000kcal a day or my weight drops and people start making negative comments about how skinny I am. Just wanted to say that, at least in my case doing keto and being at ideal weight and bloods super high even 28! Docs have been **** they just keep trying different drugs(7), non of them have any effect including Met and Glip :-(

 

[HSSS]

Hi I am new first post, I am 53, diabetic (maybe) for 2 years, I started on Met and Glip and Keto and had bloods under control now they average at about 14 all the time! I am 13st 5 6ft 3 and struggle to keep weight ON. I eat super low carbs living off high fat and it's not working for me. I have to eat around 3000kcal a day or my weight drops and people start making negative comments about how skinny I am. Just wanted to say that, at least in my case doing keto and being at ideal weight and bloods super high even 28! Docs have been **** they just keep trying different drugs(7), non of them have any effect including Met and Glip :-(

Have you been checked for type 1 or LADA? C peptide and GAD antibodies? If keto and type 2 meds aren’t working and you are losing weight maybe you’ve been in honeymoon or slow onset (being extended by the diet and thus reduced demand). You need to know what your pancreas is actually putting out. Push hard if your dr hasn’t done these checks. Some sadly still think wrongly that age prevents type 1 after teenage years.

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi I am new first post, I am 53, diabetic (maybe) for 2 years, I started on Met and Glip and Keto and had bloods under control now they average at about 14 all the time! I am 13st 5 6ft 3 and struggle to keep weight ON. I eat super low carbs living off high fat and it's not working for me. I have to eat around 3000kcal a day or my weight drops and people start making negative comments about how skinny I am. Just wanted to say that, at least in my case doing keto and being at ideal weight and bloods super high even 28! Docs have been **** they just keep trying different drugs(7), non of them have any effect including Met and Glip :-(

Hi @Gazcart,

So sorry to hear that keto isn't working for you. Maybe there is something else going on other than T2 (assuming this was your diagnosis based on your meds). Is it possible that you are T1 or LADA? Could you ask for a GAD and a C-Peptide test?

Blood sugar levels of 28 are very high -- if your GP isn't taking this seriously, have you considered going to the emergency entrance to get it checked out?

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Hi I am new first post, I am 53, diabetic (maybe) for 2 years, I started on Met and Glip and Keto and had bloods under control now they average at about 14 all the time! I am 13st 5 6ft 3 and struggle to keep weight ON. I eat super low carbs living off high fat and it's not working for me. I have to eat around 3000kcal a day or my weight drops and people start making negative comments about how skinny I am. Just wanted to say that, at least in my case doing keto and being at ideal weight and bloods super high even 28! Docs have been **** they just keep trying different drugs(7), non of them have any effect including Met and Glip :-(

You could easily lose a couple of stone more and still be a healthy weight.

Other people telling you that you are too thin is NOT a reason to stop losing weight.

 

[Brunneria]

You could easily lose a couple of stone more and still be a healthy weight.

Other people telling you that you are too thin is NOT a reason to stop losing weight.

Trouble is, judging ‘healthy weight’ by BMI (height and weight), is wildly inaccurate.
Both my father and my husband are 6’ 1”.
My father is built like a greyhound, and is carrying too much weight if he goes over 11.5 stone.
My husband is built like a mastiff and is skinny-over-muscle at 14 stone.

I simply don’t believe that anyone can assess over (or under) weight over the internet.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi and welcome @Gazcart

If you are struggling to maintain weight, are you checking your blood glucose at home?
Uncontrolled weight loss is a symptom of type 1, when excess glucose is peed out via the kidneys, to save it building horribly high in the blood. If your blood glucose is around 14mmol/l most of the time, then you are well into that pee-in-urine zone.

As some have suggested above, see if you can get tests run to see if you are Type 1 or LADA
However, if whatever T2 drugs they have you on are not working to keep your blood glucose in range, then it could well be time to push for your healthcare team to reconsider their treatment regime - which may move you onto insulin.

 

[Dave359]

Hi @Dave359 - whether we are able to significantly lower our blood glucose readings longterm to healthy levels, and go into remission/reversal, 'just' on losing weight is a lot more complex than you might think.

My understanding is - the more "deranged" your blood glucose system is (which includes your blood lipids, and hormones involved - with glucagon a star, and stress hormones being major players), and on how long it has been deranged, the longer it can take to correct. It's the most positive perspective to have - that it is ultimately correctible, and the one I hope is true, for folks like me who do not have mild obesity or age related diabetes. (Excuse the word 'mild' but it is not my own choice, but that of endocrinologists at Lund University in Sweden, whose terminology I am using.)

I realise that it may not be correctible, but only time will tell.

And I see correcting it is to eat less carbs, as low as you can personally go, in order to be as slim/body-fat free as you can go,(emphasis on 'as you can'! - a very personal thing that), in order to replace the sick fat cells with healthy ones (fat cells take about ten years to be replaced, so the more sick fat cells you have...), and all the while giving the poor ol' over-producing beta cells in our pancreases a break, which have to churn out all that insulin, and not wear it out in the process. Is my understanding of the process, simplified. (And metformin can help heaps with this process, not considering drawbacks of longterm medicating and masking symptoms here, for the sake of argument.)

Speaking as such a metabolically deranged person myself of course. .

Thank you very much for your post, I'm really grateful that you took the time to share.

A question I do have you might be able to answer, Type 2 diabetic doing LC Keto diet, if I get my blood sugar down using meds ie Sukkarto & Gliclazide and possibly NovaRapid does our body use ketones when sugars are stabilised?