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Intermittent Fasting and GERD (GastroEsophagal Reflux Disease) and/or Hiatus Hernia ((HH)

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by Wonkylegs, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. Wonkylegs

    Wonkylegs · Member

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    Is there anyone here who has GERD (GastroEsophagal Reflux Disease) and/or Hiatus Hernia ((HH) who is also trying Intermittent Fasting? Has it helped or made things worse?


    I have been doing IF for 16/18 hours overnight from dinner at 6ish until noon next day. I must add here that I’ve been on a small dose PPI for a very long time due to a diagnosis of ‘IBS’ a sort of non- diagnosis as I was a ‘neurotic woman’ - Consultants term not mine. The HH and GERD was discovered in a routine endoscopy for chronic cough 2 years ago. I’m keeping a food diary at the moment to see if I can find any food triggers.


    Then about 5 weeks ago I had a dreadful flare of symptoms- in fact so bad we thought it was angina! I’m now on a ridiculous amount of PPIs and Gaviscon to heal the oesophagitis the acid had caused. I’d had some heartburn during the mornings with the IF before I ate st noon but it seems I’d ignored it at my peril.

    So I’ve now started having 2 boiled eggs each morning and eating smaller meals but I’m still waiting to heal.


    Weight loss is supposed to help but I’ve lost 6 stone on LCHF! Plus I’ve been doing IF for about 6 months.


    Any thought? Suggestions? Gratefully received.

    Reply
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  2. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    @Wonkylegs - I was replying to your earlier thread, then it disappeared!

    Has your gallbladder been checked; not just by a bit of prodding, but ny sonography?

    My OH has a longstanding hiatus hernie, and for him, one of the most important things in keeping it at bay is maintining a trim waistline. If he gains weight, the symptoms start. He also does well on reduced carb, although he doesn't go very low carb at all.

    A couple of months ago, we had a bit of late night, blue light paramedic action due to upper abdominal/can't exactly put my finger on it, pain. Multiple ECGs, both at home and on the way comforted everyone his ticker is fine. Having had blood tests, an X-ray, pain relief, and reassurance, he was discharged.

    A day or so later, he had an ultrasound, which revealed a soliary gallstone of 2.1cm, although the medics speculate the pain was more likely him passing something much smaller.

    Secondly, when losing your weight, did you continue to eat fat (as in dietary fat), or did you focus on lower fat foods?

    One of the findings from one of the earlier phases of the Newcastle Diet was that for some participants, the reduction in fat intake (whilst living on shakes) led to gallbladder issues.
     
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  3. Wonkylegs

    Wonkylegs · Member

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    @DCUKMod, I’m so sorry about the earlier post, I changed the title as I thought I may have the subjects the wrong way around on this forum. But thank you so much for persevering for me, I appreciate it. I’m very new here and feeling my way around.

    No my gall bladder has not been checked, but my pain was high up behind the breast bone and across the very top ribs. So high we thought lungs or angina to start with pain even in my throat and right shoulder. Plus it was very sharp almost neurological (I know as I have MS). My GP explained that the oesophagus shares nerves right by the heart hence the pain of oesophagitis.

    I lost my weight doing LCHF, for many years I’d yo-yo dieted on HCLF but about 6 years ago I switched to LCHF. Hence the easily accomplished weight loss. I can maintain it easily and I’m at the lowest in my adult life. I was going IF more for health than weight loss, but a few more pounds wouldn’t hurt. I’m really after if anyone has had flares that only happened in IF?
     
  4. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    Gallbladder pain can show itself in a few crazy sounding places, like upper back, so wouldn't count it out, bearing in mind they now have you on lots of PPIs and you're topping up on that with Gaviscon. What dose of your PPI are you on?

    Just as an aside, should you ever want or need a thread title (of your own) changed, just tag any Mod and we can do that for you, rather than you have to delete your thread and start again.
     
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  5. Wonkylegs

    Wonkylegs · Member

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    Thanks @DCUKMod, that’s a useful tip re: changes to threads.
    I’ll mention gall bladder to my GP next time and see what they think. Would the meds affect gall bladder pain? The meds have definitely cleared up the soreness inside my oesophagus that came with the pain. I’m on 30mg Lanzaprazole twice a day and Gaviscon 4 times a day at the moment. But instructions to reduce over next couple of weeks back to my original dose with luck. I’d like to get off them but after 28 years I think I’ll be lucky. The dangers were unknown back then!
     
    #5 Wonkylegs, Sep 14, 2019 at 8:29 PM
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  6. Wonkylegs

    Wonkylegs · Member

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    BTW they likened what I had to a severe chemical burn which needed strong acids suppression so as not to continue burning (PPI) and lotion to soother the burn (Gaviscon).
     
    #6 Wonkylegs, Sep 14, 2019 at 8:32 PM
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  7. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
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    @Wonkylegs - As I understand it, the main thing that helps gallbladder pain is when the pesky stone is either passed, or settles back into the gallbladder or the gallbladder is removed.

    My OH's inital diagnosis was gastritis, which is why he initially had the PPIs prescribed, then the sonography clarified and refocused minds. He is currently considering his options. His preference for a surgical intervention is about 1%. His desire for a recurrance of the pain he had that night? Oh that's much less than 1%.

    The following link is very brief, but they description of the symptoms might be useful.

    https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/gallbladder-disease

    To be clear, I'm not saying you had, or have, a gallbladder problem. I'm just a very common issue, and I'm just throwing an option in there.
     
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  8. Wonkylegs

    Wonkylegs · Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion, I hope your OH gets sorted out. My daughter suffers gall stones so I’ve seen how painful they can be. Has he ever tried IF or is it a non/starter because I’m beginning to think it might be i.e. no food in tummy the acid gets busy?
     
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  9. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sorry can’t comment on IF In relation to Gerd but I had gallbladder issues for 4 yrs misdiagnosed as gerd. The pain was severe (2 blue light runs with ecg’s etc) on one occasion diagnosed as a torn rotator cuff as the pain was also in my shoulder. My shoulder was just fine! For me the pain was focused mainly behind my solar plexus. Burning, cramping, worse than childbirth pain. Ultimately removal solved the problems reluctant as I was to have the surgery I’m glad I did.

    Did you also know in some cases gerd is made worse by ppi? What is frequently diagnosed as too much acid (without any testing to support this assumption) is actually a lack of acid therefore digestion doesn’t work properly and slows down further. Ppi then make everything even worse. Withdrawal from longer term ppi is also an issue and needs to be managed carefully. Not always the case, particularly with structural issues like hh, but an all too common misdiagnosis nonetheless
     
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  10. Wonkylegs

    Wonkylegs · Member

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    Thank you I’ll get it all checked out I’m aware if this but it’s so hard when GPS don’t support and your in pain! My main pain was much higher and across my chest so just below the throat and radiating across the very top ribs both sides just into the right shoulder. It made it difficult to breath and was typical oesophagitis pain. But I’m aware of the PPI issues and that scares me!
     
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    #10 Wonkylegs, Sep 15, 2019 at 7:09 AM
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  11. dms1

    dms1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So pleased to find this thread - thanks, Wonkeylegs, for posting it.

    I have undergone a series of investigations over the last 6 months to try and establish a cause for my very similar symptoms. Whilst all test results (heart, lungs, bloods) have put me firmly in the normal range, which is good, my main symptoms (chest pain, nausea, fainting) carried on until two weeks ago when my GP suggested I try a PPI for a month to see if it made a difference. After a couple of days I was feeling fine with only slight discomfort when walking swiftly or up steep slopes. I will have a follow up with my GP at the end of the month but it seems clear where any further investigations should be focussed. Any further information gratefully received!
     
  12. Jo123

    Jo123 · Well-Known Member

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    I've got a hiatis hernia and gastritis. The gastritis has resolved but I keep the hernia bearable by taking ranitidine, works and has less bad side effects than omeprazole, eating regularly, last meal no later than 8 pm. I did take omeprazole for a month. I couldn't not eat breakfast, I need something to eat in the morning to avoid symptoms. Plus when this all kicked off I lost a ton of weight and the gp put me on the two week cancer appointment so I really can't afford to miss meals. Gaviscon advance has been a life saver, take after every meal plus at bedtime.

    I also bought an iqoro, I bought it off the Internet. My health has improved thank God, whether it's down to the iqoro or not I don't know, but I'm pleased I've got it. I also see a chartered osteopath who does some body work to help with the hernia, I have no idea what worked but I feel 100% better.

    Hope this helps, it's horrible to have.
     
  13. dms1

    dms1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Interesting to hear that you also needed to eat breakfast when taking omeprazole. I had been fasting 3-4 mornings a week but obviously now have to eat in order to take the tablets. I find it too hard to fast at the other end of the day so willing to forego the fasting until the month is up.

    I hadn't heard of the iqoro device but have now looked it up - fascinating!
     
  14. dms1

    dms1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Jo123

    Just wondering if you are still using the iqoro and if so, whether you feel it is helping? I'm looking for any exercises which might help me strengthen my diaphragm but would prefer to hear the comments of someone who has used the iqoro before committing to spending a lot of money for a small plastic device. The NICE review says it might help but it might not (insufficient research evidence).
     
  15. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    Wow. I'm 6st lighter due to bariatric surgery and I'm bleeding from suspected GERD/IBS rather than surgery. I too hv longterm acid reflux. Been on lansoprozol for years.
    If does not improve acid reflux but weight loss does.
    Are you like me that the damage was due whilst you were very heavily overweight?

    Healing will be up to excellent bgs and good nutrition. Seek out healing foods which are known not to kick off a flare.
    I understand everyone has different triggers for acid reflux or/and IBS so your right to do your food diary.
    I get acid reflux on water. I kid you not.

    Many type1s hv autoimmune disorders which IBD is one but IBS is not.
    Has your IBS been diagnosed correctly?

    I too hv acid refluxing and I suspect affecting my asthma or whatever my breathing problem is.
    Is your breathing unaffected?
     
  16. Ojustaboo

    Ojustaboo Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I had a bad Hiatus Hernia, was on max allowed dose of Omiprazole a day for years and years (started in early 90s) then they changed it to Lansoprazole and even then, I still often got through a whole large bottle of gaviscon in a day.

    Before I had my op, I would wake up in the middle of the night (bed was at an angle and had loads of pillows so my feet were always lower than my head) choking, it felt like reflux had got into one of my lungs, I would have a coughing fit for up to an hour, no white left in my eyes and my voice completely gone for a couple of hours. Usually I was coughing up a foamy like substance.

    The worst heartburn and nausea was when I was on Atkins and only eating one meal a day. I found the best thing to keep my reflux at bay was eating constantly every hour or two.

    Oddly for me, something like a pork pie would stop the heart burn and virtually cure the sickness for a while.

    Since then I've had something called a Nissen fundoplication which has 99.9% cured the burning feeling of acid reflux, that was about 7 + years ago. It does something like turn the diaphragm into a one way valve.

    It's impossible for me to now vomit, and I now have a problem where certain foods get stuck and cause a huge pain approx 2" diagonally down and left from my right nipple. Chicken is the worst to the point where although I love it, I simply cannot eat it anymore (after the op, I was told to avoid chicken for at least 6 weeks as it's known to get stuck) Turkey is fine though.

    I also am constantly nauseous (was before the op, still am after), and take Cyclizine Hydrochloride to help combat it (never properly works though) and sometimes I exceed the stated dose if I feel like I'm really going to vomit (which I can't physically do anyway)

    I got (and still regularly get) a weird numbness over the right hand side of my chest/breast, I mentioned this to my GP in the early 90s, and I saw her notes once where she had written "thinks he's got cancer"?????? I mention it every time I see anyone about this, and they say it's probably deferred pain.

    When my food gets stuck, it feels like the food is stuck just below my breast when the reality is, it's stuck in my oesophagus. The pain is unbearable, I have to stand up, sort of do a weird stretch with my right arm stretched fully as though I'm trying to touch the ceiling, before it finally slowly moves. Even taking a sip of water doesn't help.

    My nausea is also a lot worse if I'm sitting on a chair and turning to the left to talk to someone (or use a lap top thats to the left of me) . I've mentioned this for years, but no GP takes it seriously.

    I'm now on Lansoprazole as and when needed.

    The reality is, since having the op I can now do LCHF and when I do that diet, there's times where I just have one meal a day for days. I could never have done this before the op.

    When on the LCHF diet, I need to take Lansoprazole morning and night. Without it, my sickness feeling is simply too bad to be able to function.

    I also still have occasional problems with my voice going etc (but not waking up choking) , the hospital says that's because of my acid reflux and even though I don't get heartburn anymore, they say I still have re-flux.

    End of last year I went yet again to the GP over my food getting stuck (been about it over 10 years) , my GP (nerver seen this GP before) referred me to the hospital to check I didn't have food pipe cancer (I didn't think I had as this had gone on for years). Hospital put a camera down me and everything looked totally fine. They said as I was in their system, I might as well go for the swallowing test but they expect it to come back clear/normal and said they suspect one of my muscles possibly isn't working as well as it should be. At the test, even swallowing water, it came up as not normal, he said it showed definite swallowing issues. Am still waiting for the followup at the hospital.
     
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  17. BeaAcrossThePond

    BeaAcrossThePond · Newbie

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    I think intermittent fasting actually pushed me into GERD. Five years ago I lost 100 pounds without intermittent fasting. After Thanksgiving last year I decided I needed to address my weight as it was creeping back up. Right after Christmas I started IF. I did IF for 3 weeks. Things went great at first. I started feeling better and even started to run a bit. Then I noticed I started burping and passing gas quite a bit which is unusual for me. Soon after that my stomach started gurgling. Not growling because of hunger but actual gurgling like water was going down a drain. I'd never heard my stomach do that before. By morning soon after the gurgling started I woke up in intense pain. My throat and chest was on literal fire. I'd had very infrequent bouts of heartburn in the past from eating acidic foods but I'd never experienced heartburn to that degree.

    I drank water and it seemed to die down throughout the day. The next day I started weight lifting and working out again and IF. Big mistake. By that evening my throat, chest, and stomach were in agony. I hurt so bad I could barely sleep that night. The next day I bought regular antacids. They did nothing. I went back to the store and bought Pepcid and began taking 40mg a day. That is the only thing that worked. I now have an irritating sensation in the middle of my stomach under my breastbone I never had before.

    I began to research this issue and learned as I'm sure you all know by now that even if you IF your stomach is still producing acid. If your body is already more acid than alkaline that is a huge problem. The gurgling I was hearing was the acid in my stomach. The burping and gas also was sparked by the acid. Had I known then what I know now, I would have stopped the IF when I started burping without reason. I did not know my body was more acid than alkaline. I'm now drinking a few liters of alkaline water, taking probiotics, and cutting way back on the meat to rebalance my gut.

    Meat, as are carbohydrates, are very acidic. So if you already have an issue with your body being more acidic than alkaline that may not be the best choice. I too now have that sensation of not being able to eat full meals anymore because I feel super full. That sensation seems to die down and flair up again according to what I eat. Salad and fibrous foods like oatmeal seem to really help.

    Anyone (diabetic or not/GERD or not) whose body is more acidic than alkaline please think twice before starting an IF. I now seem to have full blown GERD symptoms complete with constipation/diarrhea, acid throat (soothed greatly by 3 cups of licorice tea a day), and food backing up into my throat. The Pepcid keeps the food from backing up but I don't want to be on pills forever.

    I would recommend anyone to buy PH strips from the pharmacy or where ever and see how acidic your body is if you don't already know before you IF. If you have even the slightest issue with being more acidic, having heartburn, Acid Refulx, or GERD please talk to your doctor before you start IF. It's not worth it. I'd rather be fat that deal with an overly acidic gut. It is pure torture. There is a fermented food diet out there that many people swear by that will help rebalance your gut. I'm going to try that and prayerfully this will all be a horrible memory soon.
     
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