Is There An Error In Determining The Degree Of Diabetes?

HICHAM_T2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,447
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Nothing
welcome everybody

I might find someone here who agrees with me and here too some people will not care about the subject
Personally I think there is a line in the difficulty of determining the degree of diabetes in every human being

for example :
Is there a difference between two people have one Hba1c 6.2% and other have 6.6%
If we talk medically they will say
The first is not diabetic and the second is diabetic. Although there is no big difference

I suggest an idea why we do not take digital names that can identify a patient with a taste
Each person exceeds 5.4% example 5.5% that's mean Diabetes(-90%) 5.6% = diabetes (-80%) 5.7= diabetes(-70%) 6.3%=diabetes(-10%) 6.4=diabetes(exactly)
6.5%=diabetes(+10%) And so on
Just idea
 

mogalobs

Newbie
Messages
3
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
welcome everybody

I might find someone here who agrees with me and here too some people will not care about the subject
Personally I think there is a line in the difficulty of determining the degree of diabetes in every human being

for example :
Is there a difference between two people have one Hba1c 6.2% and other have 6.6%
If we talk medically they will say
The first is not diabetic and the second is diabetic. Although there is no big difference

I suggest an idea why we do not take digital names that can identify a patient with a taste
Each person exceeds 5.4% example 5.5% that's mean Diabetes(-90%) 5.6% = diabetes (-80%) 5.7= diabetes(-70%) 6.3%=diabetes(-10%) 6.4=diabetes(exactly)
6.5%=diabetes(+10%) And so on
Just idea
I feel the same way as this person. I had 39 as the blood test revealed and still got blood sugar of 7.9 and 8.6 on hospital tests of fasting. My own testing was from 7. something to 10.8 and one gave 12.6. all taken first thing in the morning before eating. I do nto understand it at all,
 
  • Like
Reactions: HICHAM_T2

NoCrbs4Me

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,700
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Dislikes
Vegetables
Unfortunately, the level of accuracy of HbA1c tests is not high enough to be used in the way you propose.

Also, consider that two people with exactly the same degree of diabetes can have very different average blood glucose levels if their diet is different.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HICHAM_T2

Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
You also have to throw insulin resistance into the mix. Even non Diabetics can have a measure of insulin resistance but do not develope Pre D or T2. It's not all about the glucose.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HICHAM_T2

HICHAM_T2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,447
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Nothing
Blimey Hicham, as if it's not complicated enough already! :)
The percentage of the disease should be determined by a percentage
Thus doctors can deal with the patient better and more precisely
 

Mr_Pot

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,573
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
The percentage of the disease should be determined by a percentage
Thus doctors can deal with the patient better and more precisely
HbA1c measures average glucose levels over the past 2 or 3 months. Imagine 2 people have diabetes. For the last two months one has been on a low carb diet and the other has eaten bread, potatoes and rice every day. Their HbA1c would show how well they are managing their diabetes not how "badly" they have the disease.
 

Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
I honestly beleive that earlier diagnosis is more important than perfecting the glycation ranges. Raised blood glucose as shown by the A1c is perhaps the last symptom of T2. Why not pour resources into a test that would detect the condition earlier or at least flag up those who are at risk?
 

HICHAM_T2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,447
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Nothing
I honestly beleive that earlier diagnosis is more important than perfecting the glycation ranges. Raised blood glucose as shown by the A1c is perhaps the last symptom of T2. Why not pour resources into a test that would detect the condition earlier or at least flag up those who are at risk?
Yes I agree completely so determining the percentage of disease percentage is best should be an alternative to names like diabetes or pre diabetes pre-diabetes He has health problems but with a lighter rate without feeling it
 
P

pollensa

Guest
welcome everybody

I might find someone here who agrees with me and here too some people will not care about the subject
Personally I think there is a line in the difficulty of determining the degree of diabetes in every human being

for example :
Is there a difference between two people have one Hba1c 6.2% and other have 6.6%
If we talk medically they will say
The first is not diabetic and the second is diabetic. Although there is no big difference

I suggest an idea why we do not take digital names that can identify a patient with a taste
Each person exceeds 5.4% example 5.5% that's mean Diabetes(-90%) 5.6% = diabetes (-80%) 5.7= diabetes(-70%) 6.3%=diabetes(-10%) 6.4=diabetes(exactly)
6.5%=diabetes(+10%) And so on
Just idea

Here is one person who totally agrees with your thinking regards line cut off re degree diabetes and errors due to numbers set. Also the very little differences of cut offs should be taken into consideration when diagnosing.

I have made comments re my own concerns about this on this site and now refrain from doing so, as no one seemed to take notice, but I reiterate again, the cut off lines made are all arbitrary set confirmed as such. I have also given example of myself, between two countries, i.e. New Zealand views 6..6% as pre diabetes, here in spain 6.6% is diabetic. The same goes if one is sitting on the cut off i.e. 6.5% spain cut off, so if your on this number, you are still classed diabetic, yet New Zealand pragmatic viewing is more flexi, if one is up to or equal to i.e. sitting on 6.6% your still viewed as pre for example.

New Zealand feels, to label a person diabetic, just because they are sitting on a number or one number above, can cause anxiety stress, and other, and prefer to have a flexi approach caution, monitory reviews approach.

Its a difficult one, there has to be a number set as I see it, but what is the correct line cut off is the doubt question. Until that changes, to save doubts and when no big differences, I do not have faith or trust in the arbitrary numbers set but then thats my own personal opinion and I am sure am the minority on this view.

Today for example, although I no longer reply or send posts, I have taken the liberty to post my success story, in the hope to give incentive to others, as this and the success story will be my last post, but within that story, I have mentioned the differences of victims as myself, inbetween two countries that differ on cut off its not an error, both countries are right, but they follow their own criterias, and although not an error, its a doubt as to what should be the cut off, i.e. nor arbitrary set, but instead by clinical and medical proof of evidence, to allow diagnosing purposes.

It is not clearly stated to us i.e. cut off is 6.5% i.e. does that mean if your sitting on 6.5% or is it 6.6 becomes diabetic. Personally if one is sitting on the cut off, its borderline case situation Caution, but many countries view if your on the cut off arbitrary set at whim random choice, you are diabetic.

You have a good point raised. An example, it depends where one resides time of being diagnosed, as many countries have different cut offs, so who is right and who is wrong, and I guess it could be at the end of the day referred to as your question is there error...I have had one lab error that showed I was diabetic, after pressure and force to have this checked and rechecked it proved Yes, there was an error, and believe me, may not be of that important to the Lab, but for the person on the receiving end of the lab test A1C Test, there is a big difference between pre diabetic and diabetic. Had I not pushed and pressed to get proof error, I would still be thinking I was Diabetic. Now that is frightening.

So I applaud you for this post you have written, as it leaves room for lots of thought on the subject.

This is my last reply, and the post I have done today will be my last also, that post was to indicate that errors can happen, do happen, and personally its up to all individuals if they want to take care after all its our bodies, to ask questions and whether that is 1 or 100 to get it right, do so, had I not asked questions, I would be under impression I was diabetic, and was not due to lab error.
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-8-21_20-47-56.png
    upload_2018-8-21_20-47-56.png
    193.4 KB · Views: 472

Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
Yes I agree completely so determining the percentage of disease percentage is best should be an alternative to names like diabetes or pre diabetes pre-diabetes He has health problems but with a lighter rate without feeling it

Ok. I had a HbA1c of 98 on diagnosis. I felt nothing, no symptoms whatsoever. There are no symptoms of insulin resistance but this is what some beleive is one of the primary causes. What you are propsing, in my opinion, is just shuffling papers after the condition has already developed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HICHAM_T2

Alexandra100

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,742
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Personally I think there is a line in the difficulty of determining the degree of diabetes in every human being
IMO the degree of diabetes that counts is seen in the peaks, troughs and general instability of one's blood glucose. What I want to know is not whether I am considered in the UK / US / elsewhere to be diabetic, pre-diabetic or even post-diabetic. I want to know whether my daily and hourly bg is going to cause me to develop heart failure or other complications. To find this out I need to monitor with a CGM, backed up by finger-prick testing. My A1c readings are interesting, but not sufficient because they are an average that may conceal damaging hypers and hypos.
 

Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
How can one be "post Diabetic"?
 

archersuz

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,213
Type of diabetes
Type 2
To me it doesn't matter what the cut off is, or what it's called - pre-diabetic, diabetic etc etc etc. I just need to know that I have a problem that can (for now) be controlled by eating very few carbs. Does it matter if the HbA1c is slightly out? If I tried to keep my HbA1c say point one below the 'cut off' then yes it would matter, but I choose to keep my HbA1c well below that! On my DESMOND course we were told to keep our HbA1c below 58 (!!!!!!) I queried this, asking why one would choose to leave it so high and said I was going to lower mine to non-diabetic levels and the response I got was "Well you can try". I don't think the nurses believed it was even possible let alone that I would do it!
Surely it doesn't matter what the 'degree' of diabetes is, the answer for most is to low carb.
 

Mr_Pot

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,573
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
IMO the degree of diabetes that counts is seen in the peaks, troughs and general instability of one's blood glucose. What I want to know is not whether I am considered in the UK / US / elsewhere to be diabetic, pre-diabetic or even post-diabetic. I want to know whether my daily and hourly bg is going to cause me to develop heart failure or other complications. To find this out I need to monitor with a CGM, backed up by finger-prick testing. My A1c readings are interesting, but not sufficient because they are an average that may conceal damaging hypers and hypos.
Or you could adopt a "glass half full" approach. A HbA1c of 38 is not considered even pre-diabetic, why not carry on with your LC diet, stop the obsessive testing and enjoy life?
 

Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
Is the question addressed to me ?

Sorry, no the question is addressed to Alexandra. Surely post Diabetic can only mean dead as beyond Diabetes doesn't exist, there is no cure so the only way to be post D would be to have died? It makes no sense.
 

HICHAM_T2

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,447
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Nothing
My questions may be a bit strange, but I want to move smartly
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
The HbA1c is very fallible. Ignore the very real evidence that it is inaccurate for various groups of people, and remember the "fallacy of averages."

Two people with identical HbA1cs.
One has an almost flat line with hardly any peaks or troughs. Just nice wavy lines on a graph. Nice and steady, no roller coaster swings.
The other goes up and down, up and down, swinging about quite dangerously.
But the average blood glucose is the same.

The first one has good control, the second one doesn't. They cannot be compared ..... yet they are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: johnrubinstein