Is this the food that is making the World obese?

[Oldvatr]

BBC News article that may be of interest

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39254804

 

[serenity648]

I did read this article this morning, but stopped when I got to this bit:

A small amount of fat is an essential part of a healthy, balanced diet. But fats are high in calories so eating a lot can increase the risk of becoming overweight or obese. Saturated and trans fats are also associated with heart disease.

The article struck me as clutching at straws to blame anything except carbs. I mean, even if the fats mentioned are a problem, how does that square up with the low fat diets people are on? Surely people are eating less fat nowadays, not enough to cause obesity.

 

[douglas99]

I did read this article this morning, but stopped when I got to this bit:

A small amount of fat is an essential part of a healthy, balanced diet. But fats are high in calories so eating a lot can increase the risk of becoming overweight or obese. Saturated and trans fats are also associated with heart disease.

The article struck me as clutching at straws to blame anything except carbs. I mean, even if the fats mentioned are a problem, how does that square up with the low fat diets people are on? Surely people are eating less fat nowadays, not enough to cause obesity.

No one eats a low fat diet nowadays.
(Although when I did shortly after I was diagnosed, I lost several stones).

 

[MikeTurin]

I did read this article this morning, but stopped when I got to this bit:

A small amount of fat is an essential part of a healthy, balanced diet. But fats are high in calories so eating a lot can increase the risk of becoming overweight or obese. Saturated and trans fats are also associated with heart disease.

The article struck me as clutching at straws to blame anything except carbs. I mean, even if the fats mentioned are a problem, how does that square up with the low fat diets people are on? Surely people are eating less fat nowadays, not enough to cause obesity.

Because most people aren't on a low fat diet! They are on a high fat high calories diet made with a lot of trash food.

 

[Oldvatr]

I did read this article this morning, but stopped when I got to this bit:

A small amount of fat is an essential part of a healthy, balanced diet. But fats are high in calories so eating a lot can increase the risk of becoming overweight or obese. Saturated and trans fats are also associated with heart disease.

The article struck me as clutching at straws to blame anything except carbs. I mean, even if the fats mentioned are a problem, how does that square up with the low fat diets people are on? Surely people are eating less fat nowadays, not enough to cause obesity.

I did a load of research into metabolism over the last 18 months, and during my travels into understanding basic metabolism as currently demonstrated by recent scientific studies, it became quite clear to me that there are two types of fat involved in obesity. Carb metabolism ends up with both glucogen and water being stored in muscle tissue cells. Controlling carb intake directly affects these stores, but does not affect the second set of fat stores, namely the adipocytes in the brown or white fat cells.

These are controlled primarily by fat intake (and Fructose), not by carbs at all, and it is these cells that once created will always remain as a permanent fat store, We can deplete them somewhat by exercise or by following a LC diet that causes ketogenesis to occur, thus burning up the fat. BUT a low fat diet is not very successful at reducing this fat layer as countless dieters can avow to. So calorie restriction diets can reduce the glucogen stores and heavy exercise can reduce adipose stores, but its not very successful, and putting weight back on is sadly too easy,

I use an LCHF diet myself, and I have lost about 5" off my tum, and gone from 84kg down to 65kg. I have lost more than that and have had to put weight back on. I do that by increasing my fat intake, and this last 3 months I have kept to 66kg on successive weighings. So yes, I do believe fat intake does significantly affect my BMI, and I have demonstrated this and posted graphs of my results elsewhere on the forum. I do not think I am unique in this

 

[Winnie53]

Interesting article. A problem in the USA is that cottonseed oil not just soybean oil is being used in processed foods now. I buy mayonnaise now made with avocado oil. So glad I've given up processed foods. Those highly processed seed oils scare me.

 

[Winnie53]

@Oldvatr I'm interested in understanding your personal strategy...

Eliminate processed foods that contain high fructose corn syrup and highly processed seed oils - (corn, soybean, saffola, canola, sunflower, cottonseed, and peanut)?

Eliminate use of highly processed seed oils?

What fats and oils or sources of each do you still use?

If using low carb, reduce carbs enough so ketogenic and burning fat?

Do you think fructose from a limited amount of fruit and berries is okay?

 

[BrianTheElder]

Controlling carb intake directly affects these stores, but does not affect the second set of fat stores, namely the adipocytes in the brown or white fat cells.
These are controlled primarily by fat intake (and Fructose), not by carbs at all...

Sorry to be picky, but I didn't understand this. Are you saying that fructose doesn't count as carbs?

 

[Oldvatr]

@Oldvatr I'm interested in understanding your personal strategy...

Eliminate processed foods that contain high fructose corn syrup and highly processed seed oils - (corn, soybean, saffola, canola, sunflower, cottonseed, and peanut)?

Eliminate use of highly processed seed oils?

What fats and oils or sources of each do you still use?

If using low carb, reduce carbs enough so ketogenic and burning fat?

Do you think fructose from a limited amount of fruit and berries is okay?

Having read several articles on how a processed oil is filtered and sanitized so it becomes usable, it has put me off most oils in supermarkets. I do use some vegetable oil for high temp cooking, but I try to brush it on rather than pour it so as to minimize the family exposure to it. I use EV olive oil cold pressed, and coconut oil for flavour. Most of my fat comes from butter, lard, and cheese / cream products. But I try to avoid being anal about it, and remain fairly relaxed about this. I occasionally have peanut butter, but choose the brand carefully.

I do not go VLC and generally remain at about 70 or 80 gms/day carbs, with protein added to most meals. I am still taking some oral meds and have fine tuned the dose so I don't have too many surprises. One meter I use reads about 1 mmol higher than the GP supplied one, and currently my daily average is running at 6,3 mmol/l. When I was doing VLC I was getting hypo symptoms, but now this is very rare event, and never a threat since my meds are bottoming out when this occurs, so I no longer need to take in extra carbs to recover, except if I have to use the car, I know I can get lower bgl but I would lose my relaxed stance, and the family would need to cater for themselves, whereas at present we all share the same basic meals. Keeping the meds going allows my GP to support my testing regime,

I avoid most fructose laden goodies, but do have the occasional unripe banana and cream, or berries and cream when fattening up. We do have apple in a waldorf salad or with cheese and mayo salad, but I generally avoid fructose since I believe it worsens NAFL and T2D IR. The family is free to make their own choices of course, just so long as they keep their hands off my avacados

Having used the ketosis diet to reduce weight and girth so my BMI is 21, I no longer need to burn fat, I no longer need to count carbs so avidly and can run largely on autopilot. Personally it suits me this way.

 

[Oldvatr]

Sorry to be picky, but I didn't understand this. Are you saying that fructose doesn't count as carbs?

Correct if one is a pedant like me. Fructose is technically a carb, but our bodies cannot metabolise it like its sisters sucrose etc. Fructose bypasses the carb pathway and goes direct to jail - sorry, goes to the liver where it becomes stored as adipose fat around the liver. It does not affect the blood glucose levels like carbs do, since we do not use it for energy in our muscles or brain. It becomes fat instead. and seems to be a major contributor of NAFLD.

 

[BrianTheElder]

Hi @Oldvatr I see, thank you. Being somewhere on the autistic spectrum, once I meet an anomaly, my thought processes refuse to continue. I am on a ketogenic diet, less than 20g/day fat, so I was also getting stuck on the eating more fat to put on weight bit, but I understand now. For me, eating more protein increases my weight, and I don't want to do that.

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi @Oldvatr I see, thank you. Being somewhere on the autistic spectrum, once I meet an anomaly, my thought processes refuse to continue. I am on a ketogenic diet, less than 20g/day fat, so I was also getting stuck on the eating more fat to put on weight bit, but I understand now. For me, eating more protein increases my weight, and I don't want to do that.

Yes, it is posible to overdose on protein, and it can led to kidney damage if excess intake is sustained. There is a recommended RDA value posted elsehere, and I think it is around 80 gm/day for average person

See
https://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

 

[BrianTheElder]

Yes, it is posible to overdose on protein, and it can led to kidney damage if excess intake is sustained. There is a recommended RDA value posted elsehere, and I think it is around 80 gm/day for average person

See
https://authoritynutrition.com/how-much-protein-per-day/

Yes, my protein target is 60g/day. I currently weigh 72kg, and I try to follow the 0.8g/kg target body weight advice, so I may have to lower my target protein soon.

 

[Winnie53]

Thanks @Oldvatr

An ongoing "discussion" in our household is whether or not to use oil when cooking. I personally am only comfortable with animal fats when cooking. I mostly use butter and low temperature cooking in the fry pan. For certain recipes I use avocado oil but the oil isn't the only liquid ingredient so I'm less worried about damaging the oil.

Frying in oil is a hard habit to break, but luckily for me if I have anything fried in oil now when we eat out, I don't tolerate it well, but I can still fry sliced yams in butter at home for an occasional treat.

I have one more question. If your BMI is now 21, haven't you now lost your difficult to lose brown and white fat with the ketogenic diet? Is that the way to do it?

 

[ickihun]

I did a load of research into metabolism over the last 18 months, and during my travels into understanding basic metabolism as currently demonstrated by recent scientific studies, it became quite clear to me that there are two types of fat involved in obesity. Carb metabolism ends up with both glucogen and water being stored in muscle tissue cells. Controlling carb intake directly affects these stores, but does not affect the second set of fat stores, namely the adipocytes in the brown or white fat cells.

These are controlled primarily by fat intake (and Fructose), not by carbs at all, and it is these cells that once created will always remain as a permanent fat store, We can deplete them somewhat by exercise or by following a LC diet that causes ketogenesis to occur, thus burning up the fat. BUT a low fat diet is not very successful at reducing this fat layer as countless dieters can avow to. So calorie restriction diets can reduce the glucogen stores and heavy exercise can reduce adipose stores, but its not very successful, and putting weight back on is sadly too easy,

I use an LCHF diet myself, and I have lost about 5" off my tum, and gone from 84kg down to 65kg. I have lost more than that and have had to put weight back on. I do that by increasing my fat intake, and this last 3 months I have kept to 66kg on successive weighings. So yes, I do believe fat intake does significantly affect my BMI, and I have demonstrated this and posted graphs of my results elsewhere on the forum. I do not think I am unique in this

I totally agree.
I wish to add its when the fat cell is made too which counts. If your sedate at time of making that fat cell your body is told where to store it for harder access. Genetics come into it too.
My simplier note of bad fat cells and good fat cells does apply.
I'll stick my neck out and say metformin helps breakdown bad fat cells. Preserving the risk of cancer and alzheimers.

 

[Oldvatr]

Thanks @Oldvatr

An ongoing "discussion" in our household is whether or not to use oil when cooking. I personally am only comfortable with animal fats when cooking. I mostly use butter and low temperature cooking in the fry pan. For certain recipes I use avocado oil but the oil isn't the only liquid ingredient so I'm less worried about damaging the oil.

Frying in oil is a hard habit to break, but luckily for me if I have anything fried in oil now when we eat out, I don't tolerate it well, but I can still fry sliced yams in butter at home for an occasional treat.

I have one more question. If your BMI is now 21, haven't you now lost your difficult to lose brown and white fat with the ketogenic diet? Is that the way to do it?

I have not had any tests to determine what level of fatty liver I had to start with, so have no yardstick to measure by, It is my understanding that adipose fat is difficult to shift even with a following ketosis inspired wind, but keto is claimed to be a very powerful tool to do the job, A dietary Mr Muscle as it were,

I have certainly shifted body fat from my torso, so yes, I probably have done some good there. I now wear suspenders (braces in UK) to keep my jeans up since they now fall down around my ankles immediarely I try to stand without the braces, I think my IR has improved immensly. Xmas 2 years ago my average bgl jumped from 7.1 to 13,6 when I suspended LCHF diet over the holiday week. This last year I did the same again, but my average went up from 5.6 to 7.0 with similar carby treatime. One important difference was that in 2015 I was on 4x Gliclazide tabs a day, but in 2016 I had just dropped down to only 1 a day that Xmas week. So yes, I do think its the way to go. But thats just my opinion.

 

[Oldvatr]

Thanks @Oldvatr

An ongoing "discussion" in our household is whether or not to use oil when cooking. I personally am only comfortable with animal fats when cooking. I mostly use butter and low temperature cooking in the fry pan. For certain recipes I use avocado oil but the oil isn't the only liquid ingredient so I'm less worried about damaging the oil.

Frying in oil is a hard habit to break, but luckily for me if I have anything fried in oil now when we eat out, I don't tolerate it well, but I can still fry sliced yams in butter at home for an occasional treat.

I have one more question. If your BMI is now 21, haven't you now lost your difficult to lose brown and white fat with the ketogenic diet? Is that the way to do it?

I think I ought to clarify here: There is no such thing as good or bad fat = just excess fat that causes health issues. The Brown fat is needed to provide the central heating to keep our vital organs operating in cold weather ( by supplying energy for shivering and restricting blood flow to less vital parts). The White fat cells provide long term storage for keeping the vitals working when carb based food is running low, which is the stuff used mainly during keto mode,

An important thing to bear in mind when doing keto diet, is that when the White fat cells get low due to use then the body starts burning muscle tissue instead of fat and this is why keto diets get themselves a bad name. That is why the HF part of LCHF is imperative when going VLC so that you never run out of fuel and end up draining the swamp instead. This is the important point I need to get across - don't overdo the keto until you understand this. athletes have similar problems with fat cell depletion especially endurance eventers.

 

[douglas99]

I think I ought to clarify here: There is no such thing as good or bad fat = just excess fat that causes health issues. The Brown fat is needed to provide the central heating to keep our vital organs operating in cold weather ( by supplying energy for shivering and restricting blood flow to less vital parts). The White fat cells provide long term storage for keeping the vitals working when carb based food is running low, which is the stuff used mainly during keto mode,

An important thing to bear in mind when doing keto diet, is that when the White fat cells get low due to use then the body starts burning muscle tissue instead of fat and this is why keto diets get themselves a bad name. That is why the HF part of LCHF is imperative when going VLC so that you never run out of fuel and end up draining the swamp instead. This is the important point I need to get across - don't overdo the keto until you understand this. athletes have similar problems with fat cell depletion especially endurance eventers.

By the same token though, eating too much fat stops any use of fat cells, hence no weight loss, and even weight gain.

 

[Oldvatr]

By the same token though, eating too much fat stops any use of fat cells, hence no weight loss, and even weight gain.

That takes us back to the start where I said I used HF to put weight on. QED

 

[Winnie53]

Wow, you're really doing great @Oldvatr. It's encouraging to hear reports like yours.

I've recommitted to doing the ketogenic diet and am solidly in ketosis right now. I'm 40 pounds lighter than my top weight but still 40 pounds heavier than my lean weight. It will be interesting to see how losing the excess fat will affect my glucose levels.

No possibility of me over doing anything. I enjoy eating healthy foods, and still indulge in the occasional treat.