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I've become a low carb binger..

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Lovejoy00, Feb 25, 2018.

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  1. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    as the Fat Emporor is a vast site, please can you link to the relevant bit about overeating fats not making you fat? I tried his search engine and couldnt find anything to support this.
     
  2. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Your point about calories is moot. The calories from fats and the calories from carbs are not the same. Zoe Harcombe explains this far better than I can in one of her youtube presentations.

    Let me answer your second point with a question. When losing weight by whatever method where does the fat go?
     
  3. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I am sorry but I couldn't possibly remember every piece of information and its whereabouts. They are all great lectures and interviews, though, I can highly recommend them.
     
  4. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    no it isnt. Not all calories are equal. It is true that calories from carbs become fat storage much easier and quicker than calories from proteins and fats. I understand that.
    According to you, it isnt stored anywhere, it disappears. You raised this point so I am asking you to tell me the answer.

    https://www.livestrong.com/article/474281-how-does-the-body-digest-metabolize-fat/ says we store excess fat as a future energy source.
     
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  5. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    It is a very important, and potentially harmful assertion that excess fat is not stored. It leads to people thinking they can eat as much fat as they wish and still lose/maintain weight. We are not discussing something trivial. Many people who come on here are looking to improve their health and get reliable information. Not end up given unsubstantiated information which could make their health worse.
     
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  6. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Yes, but not at a level where we would gain massive amounts of weight because when fat adapted we would be using it as fuel.
    When we lose subcutaneous fat or visceral fat it is excreted in the faeces, the breath and to a lesser extent in the sweat. The source for this information eludes me, too.
     
  7. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I reckon it eludes anyone that looks for it.

    But it's a good dream.
     
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  8. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    Answering this bit, I found that once I had get my meter, found the right balance of foods to keep my blood sugars stable and at safe levels, then I felt a lot better. Many people find that sorting their blood sugars out led to weight gain. If its a choice, I would follow the excellent advice from Daisy1 that you got on another thread, and sort out your blood sugar levels first.

    best wishes, Lucy
     
  9. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I do not have an encyclopedic memory and it is certainly not my job to do research for anyone other than myself. If you choose to refute that which I have said then do so. I certainly did not trivialise anything!
     
  10. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes, that is true and well documented. However, that is not true of ingested fat. We will only use the bits we need as fuel, any excess is stored for future use.

    I dont know where this 'fat adapted' bit comes in. Our bodies are built to use the fuel we need, and store anything else for another time.
     
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  11. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Neither is a bad way to go.
    Sorting out your weight often sorts out your BG.
    Sorting out your BG, (but not overeating) sorts out your weight.

    You can do both if you measure both, and don't believe in fairies.
     
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  12. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    This is a discussion forum, you have made an assertion with serious implications, we are discussing it. I have backed up my assertions. I have not heard of your assertion, so have asked for further clarification and scientific studies on the subject. I have refuted nothing. I ask for your side of your assertion to make my own study of it, as I have found nothing scientific on google to do my own research.
     
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  13. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Sorting your blood glucose levels is your priority.

    Weight gain is be a symptom of Type 2 Diabetes not a cause of it. Lowering your blood glucose levels (from being too high) and weight loss will happen for the majority of people.
     
  14. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Then we reach an impasse.
     
  15. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Art of the Deal.

    “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth.”

    We like to have a laugh at him over a bacon sarnie.
    But he can be a bit worrying even so.
     
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  16. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    ???????
     
  17. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The rubbish we get told, always politics, smoke and mirrors, never any proof, but it gets repeated, and eventually it's a fact.
     
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  18. SockFiddler

    SockFiddler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The "fat adapted" thing is where your body has decided that carbs aren't a macronutrient it can rely on for energy anymore, there isn't enough protein (and this level varies from person to person and even from season to season) to sustain itself on, therefore the most readily available and plentiful source of energy is fat.

    When the body has fully committed to making this change and is burning fat for energy (and no longer craving carbs), it's said to be "fat adapted". It's how humans all used to eat until we started farming; it's a very normal state and one that we've been clicking into for hundreds of thousands of years.

    However, carbs and their super-fast empty release can throw our bodies out of fat adaptation relatively quickly. The post-industrial revolution working class energy source for the masses ensures that bodies have a fast and immediate source of energy... but that there's really nothing else to it (Victorian workers dying of malnutrition, bread and cereals having to be fortified to be even basically "healthy" eg).

    Which, incidentally, explains why people binge-eat at the start of adopting LCHF / similar diets: Your body hasn't yet let go of the carbs. Instead, it's detected that its fast-release energy source of choice has diminished and, instead, is making you eat everything you can lay your hands on just in case you're about to starve.

    If you're out of the carb cravings but into the "Anything That Moves" stage, you've got about a week until you sit down with your typical banquet of food, eat barely a third of what you prepared and realise that you're just not hungry for anything more.

    Our bodies like carbs; sugar = dopamine. It's literally an addiction. And our brains and bodies team up to throw tantrums when we don't eat carbs any more. But, happily, we have fickle metabolisms that will forget that carbs ever existed and start burning fat like champions.

    Honestly, you're nearly there. Don't starve and don't feel guilty about eating. You're in the process of changing how your body fuels itself, that's all. When it's done, you'll be astonished at both how much you used to eat (you'll have to then train yourself to mindfully prepare less food each mealtime) and how little you want to eat now.

    Also: drink lots of water. That'll really help, too. But remember to increase your salt intake a little, too.

    NO GUILT! It's a rule. It should be a forum rule. Anyone experiencing or expressing food-guilt, body-shame or diet-failure shall be subjected to an intervention of hugs, affectionately stern talking to's and cheerfully punctuated pep talks peppered with more information than you ever, ever, ever, wanted to learn.

    Delayed Edit: This link explains the difference between fat adapted and ketosis (in case you were wondering) super-nicely. But without quoting studies. I'll dig those out tomorrow. x

    http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2016/01/dont-be-a-ketard1.html
     
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    #38 SockFiddler, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:19 PM
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  19. jcbman

    jcbman I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    So,
    bottom line
    the op will stop eating the block of cheese and the packet of meat?
    This isn't normal LCHF, just a stage on the way to normal LCHF eating.
    If they keep doing the binge eating, it won't be 'excreted' (for want of a better term lol)
    That makes a lot more sense than that fat emperor thing.
     
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  20. SockFiddler

    SockFiddler Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Of course they won't. Carbs are a habit as much as anything else: we like to see a nice, full plate of food and when we see an emptier plate, we're instantly thinking of dessert or supper before bedtime. Just like smokers can quit the cigs but miss the habit, so it is with carbs.

    Maybe the OP will continue to eat the massive stilton wheel - and more power to him. Both the first time I went LCHF and this time I've started now, I must have eaten around 30 Peperami's in a week. That's just how it goes. Eat mindfully, enjoy it, then move on.

    The Fat Emperor thing is also correct - it's the actual "What happens" when we're fat adapted. A lot of it is a bit nonsensical (bodies be weird machines, eh?) but that's mostly because the guy's an engineer who specialises in processing information into models. But he's an interesting chap and if you can give yourself a bit of time to listen to one of his talks, you'll see he's a genuine fellow with a lot of really sound, up-to-the-minute sources feeding his information:

    http://www.thefatemperor.com/latest-material/

    In essence (though not universally), if we've managed to persuade our bodies to burn fat for fuel, our bodies aren't going to be burning AND storing the same stuff. SO what doesn't get burned gets thrown out because, guess what? There's another meal on its way and still no carbs. And we turn that fat into all kinds of interesting and fun stuff in order to get rid of it. But, the term for getting it out of the body is, exactly, "excretion" - it's not just a poop word!

    You're right to be confused. It IS confusing, and it's the big diet secret that every single self-help diet book of the last 30 years, every slimming club, every nutritionist and dietician has been keeping from you. Given that you've had to stumble onto the info yourself - in the face of a lifetime of not-quite-accurate information, it's completely natural to be skeptical.

    Enjoy your food. Eat without guilt. Be healthier and happier. I wish this for everyone x
     
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