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Type 2 Keto or low carb?

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by andi2508, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    It normally comes in at around 35g cabs and blood sugars are normally within 2 points from wherever I started the day.
     
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  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Are you happy with that?
     
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  3. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    It's the best I can do. I'm on alogliptin, gliclazide, metformin and insulin.
    I've only had diabetes since Aug'17 and on the insulin for 2 weeks .
    I've tried all the advice and this seems to be working. I was always 14 and upwards every day.
    For the last 10 days I've been in single figures and as it seems to be working. What works for me might not be a solution to others but I wish everyone the very best on their journey.
     
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  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    But by eating all those carbs you are just requiring more medication. In your shoes I'd be trying to cut carbs to an absolute minimum (preferably fewer than 20g per day) while closely monitoring blood sugar and reducing the medication I'm on? You'd probably find that something filing like bacon and eggs or even just a coffee with cream wouldn't cause a spike at all and would keep you satiated for longer. Just my thoughts on it.
    Insulin isn't a great treatment for T2 as we are already producing way too much.. adding more into that mix is unlikely to help long term. Has your GP ever suggested a fasting insulin/ c-peptide/ insulin resistance test for you?
     
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  5. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I have tried low carb. I was put on gabapentin for the fibromyalgia and lasted 3 pills. It affected mood and wellbeing. They then tried gabapentin after 7 pills I have been left with a permanent whole body tremor for which I'm waiting for a neurologist appt.
    I recently tried 50g or less. I did it for 4 days. Whatever happened to me mentally and physically with the two drugs means I become unbearable. I have a wife and 2 children to consider.
    The diabetic consultant has said if the alogliptin and insulin get me stable she will withdraw the gliclazide. As it seems to be working for my body I'll accept the treatment especially if I can function as normally as possible as a husband and father.
     
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  6. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    It isn't a matter of whether low carb or keto is better, it is what works for you. :)

    I have to ask though @francis1971 has your doc or consultant checked you out for LADA or T1?
    Sometimes T2s are misdiagnosed.

    Just to help other members, could you update your 'type of diabetes' in your profile to reflect that you are Type 2 on insulin?
    I know that members can see that you are on insulin if they click on your profile, but this way it would show on your posts, just under your profile pic.

    The reason I ask is that people taking insulin, or the stronger type 2 drugs like gliclazide have much more capacity for carbs than people on no drugs or just metformin, and it really helps to see the diabetes type of the person making the suggestions, when we decide whether that advice is applicable to us.
     
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  7. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I have recently been tested for lada. I was told I'm type 2 but extremely symptomatic. Since the alogliptin and insulin(12 units every evening) I have been stable. As opposed to 18 months of struggle. I will change my profile and apologise for any confusion it may have caused other members.
     
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  8. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry I don’t understand your reply.
    How is the gaberpentin and other drug related to low carb eating? The drugs obviously had awful side effects for you but I still don’t see how this relates to reducing the need for as many meds by eating lower carb. To me it would be helpful not hurting. (With the proviso that meds’ arelowered as carbs are to prevent hypo)
     
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  9. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Low carb makes me feel very unwell. It affects my mood and physical well-being. Its only happened since the fibromyalgia drug trials went spectacularly wrong. I have family to protect from the worst side affects. If the price I have to pay is I have to take a more aggressive approach to the diabetes its worth it to protect them. I'm not proud or excusing the behavior. I'm ashamed of how this has impacted them.
    I will try anything to beat the problems that have happened since July '17 when it all started.
    Any idea how I change my profile as you mentioned to be able to help others.
     
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  10. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Don’t worry.
    It is just that there are so many different ways of coping with diabetes, it is helpful to see where we each are on the spectrum so we can decide if the advice is relevant to us. :)

    You can change your details by going to your prolfile (click on your own name, top right of screen) and then clicking on the Type of Diabetes. Then just choose type 2 with insulin, save, and check that it appears underneath your name and profile pic when you next post.

    Again, don’t worry. Navigating the forum software is as much a learning curve as anything else. :D
     
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  11. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Just to point out that it is still the case that many of us don't see T2 with insulin under the avatar. We just see T2. This is still on going after a few years of nagging about it to be looked at.
     
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  12. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just to add my sauce into this dish @francis1971. In no way am I prescribing any particular approach, but I feel I should say that four days is not nearly enough time in which to determine whether or not LCHF suits an individual. In fact that’s probably around about the worst time to decide. It can take a couple of weeks for the body to adapt, during which time most people feel off. You might be well advised to give it all some further thought.

    Obviously it’s understandable and admirable that you put your family first, but in the longer term, they are likely to benefit a great deal if you are able to reduce medications, and certainly get off insulin. Although it may be reducing your blood glucose concentration, it is almost certainly advancing the progression of your diabetes, and that isn’t good for you or your family.

    Please don’t misinterpret the above as judgement, it’s just genuine concern for a fellow person. Generally speaking, exogenous insulin is just about the worst treatment for insulin resistant diabetes.

    EDIT: I’m sure you’re already well informed enough to know - but either way, do NOT dabble in carbohydrate restriction without appropriate monitoring of your blood glucose lowering medicines and insulin.
     
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    #32 Jim Lahey, Feb 17, 2019 at 12:25 PM
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  13. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    I was successful in bringing my hba1c down to 48 within 12 weeks from dianosis due to helpful people on this site. It has only been since the fibromyalgia medication that has changed me physically and my personality on a fundamental level that I have been unable to tolerate lower carbs. I wish I could have kept it up. It has not been an easy decision nor a lightly taken one to start insulin. May I also thank you for your concern for a fellow person. It's good to know there decent, kind and un-judgemental people out there.
     
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  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    You mentioned when you joined up on diagnosis that you were prescribed statins due to high cholesterol. Your profile medication list doesn't mention them but are you on them?
     
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  15. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Cholesterol is now 4 so the gp has stopped prescribing . Triglycerides were elevated so they put on ezetimibe.
     
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  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Had you fasted before the blood was taken for the elevated trigs test? 10-14 hours recommended.
    High trigs are usually a sign of a higher carb diet or that you had eaten before the blood draw.. is the reason I"m asking.
     
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  17. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I have always felt so much better eating low carb and after taking Metformin and a statin for five weeks after diagnosis I got a very strong reason for avoiding 'safe and beneficial' medication - I am still trying to relearn things I have forgotten.
    My first meal of the day is no more than ten grams of carb, today it was a tuna salad. I have the rest of my carbs in the evening and fast all day as it is easiest, and I don't need to eat anyway.
     
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  18. francis1971

    francis1971 Type 2 · Active Member

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    Not eaten. This is my problem. I can maintain a reading of 15 from the milk in 2 coffees from waking at approx 7a.m till dinner time at 17:00 with no medication helping. I never used to get ill. Now everything is haywire. The diabetic nurse at gp has given up. I'm now under 2 week appts with diab consultant. I lost 7lbs in 10 days from not eating enough. That's why I was put on alogliptin and 12 units of humulin daily
     
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  19. TheFloppyOne

    TheFloppyOne Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    The Keto diet is very difficult to get started on. It will take more than 3 weeks for you to get initial losses because you need to become Fat-adapted. This can take any where between 1 to 3 months for a diabetic. This is mainly because there is a decreased level of Ketone production within diabetics.

    I was 350 lbs when I first began and I didn't get any weight loss for the first month. It was a very stressful time but I pushed though it by using some cheat foods which managed to give me partial relief from periods of ultra low energy. They where peanut butter, oatmeal and almond milk. Note that peanut butter and oatmeal will take you out of ketosis and should only be used sparingly.

    The truth is 30g of carb will keep you in carb burning mode. You need to go rock bottom 0 carbs (leafy greens not inc) and only eat natural foods. This means avoid anything out of a packet, caffeine since it turns insulin on and stay away from carby vegetables like green beans etc.

    You also need to fast everyday but eating just once and drinking only water outside the eating window which is about 3 hours.

    I'll give you an idea what you should be eating/drinking.

    8am wake up - drink only water + salt.
    1:30-4:30pm meal time =

    as much decaf tea as u like. coffee not allowed. cows milk not allowed. use cream or almond milk.

    first meal
    leafy salad, salt, pepper and virgin olive oil. maybe 100g of cheese if your struggling to eat it.

    second meal
    kale, 2 eggs, 4 slices of bacon, 1 oz of olives, 1 oz of pecan nuts, 5 cups of kale, 1tspn of olive oil.

    after 1:30pm just water + salt

    This is what you should be aiming for. Of course you can start with 3 meals per day. Perhaps go creamy tea at 9 then salad at 12 and egg/bacon meal at 5 but you need to try hard to move to 2 then eventually 1 because the more you fast the more you loose weight.

    this diet is proven to lower blood glucose but its extremely difficult.
     
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  20. andi2508

    andi2508 Type 2 · Member

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    Thank you. To be honest I’m not sure I could be so disciplined but it’s definitely something to think about.
     
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