Ketosis rocks for BG control

[borofergie]

Not that I'm one to boast about myself, but...

For the next 6 months I'm going to try and stay in deep ketosis as part of my marathon preparation. I've been eating <25g of carb a day for most of the past 3 years, but I rarely get even a hint of purple unless I'm running a lot and restricting my protein too.

As a consequence, I'm getting the best BG readings that I've ever had. Even on 25g a day, if I'm not in keto then my fasting glucose is always about 6mmol/l.

I went to Nando's yesterday lunchtime, had half a chicken, coleslaw, and ratatouille (and about 12 liters of Coke Zero) and my BG never budged above 5.1mmol/l.

 

[Andy12345]

awesome reading mate

so you normally eat 25g a day? or you've gone down to 25g a day now? if so what was you on before?

I'm at around 30g but often go 25 or below by accident, but whenever I've tested my ketones on the wee strips its always been negative as far as i can tell, i have only done this a few times thought tbh, i had key tones (apparently) at diagnosis but whenever I've self tested I've never seen them, my wee normally smells odd though, especially lately i keep meaning to test but only remember once I'm doing the deed

 

[borofergie]

OK - 25g a day is an estimate, I don't really measure anymore (I used to back the day when I was noob T2D).

I basically try and avoid all obvious carbohydrates and mainly eat meat, green veg, salad, eggs, cheese, avocados, cream and sugar free jelly (not all in the same bowl at the same time). So I aim at zero, but reckon I pick up about 25g a day from less obvious sources (and the odd splash of milk in my tea, and ketchup on my eggs).

Even on <25g a day, I still don't get any "purple" unless I really cut back on meat. As a low carber, is easy to eat meat for breakfast, lunch and tea. At the moment I'm avoiding breakfast (apart from a bulletproof coffee), cutting out milk from my tea, eating a small piece of meat and some salad at lunchtime, and a smallish piece of meat and some green veg for dinner (followed by sugar free jelly and squirty cream).

Some people find it easier, but for me, Ketosis = Exercise + Low Carb + Protein Restriction.

Some people say that the Ketostix aren't all that effective at detecting ketosis, but I find that they correlate strongly with the blood meter. I'll do a 3 way comparison over the next week, when my new breathalyzer arrives.

 

[robert72]

...Some people say that the Ketostix aren't all that effective at detecting ketosis, but I find that they correlate strongly with the blood meter. I'll do a 3 way comparison over the next week, when my new breathalyzer arrives.

I think Ketostix results are affected by fluid throughput. Yesterday I got a 4 (++) on the Ketostix so thought I should check blood ketones on the Neo which came up as 1.0

 

[borofergie]

I think Ketostix results are affected by fluid throughput. Yesterday I got a 4 (++) on the Ketostix so thought I should check blood ketones on the Neo which came up as 1.0

Yes. I agree. I see the same thing. It's always a terrible let down when that happens.

What's the highest number you've seen on your Neo @robert72 ? I can get near 2mmol/l but only after a big run.

 

[robert72]

The highest on the neo was 1.6 - I'm usually between 0.3 - 1.2

 

[Giverny]

OK - 25g a day is an estimate, I don't really measure anymore (I used to back the day when I was noob T2D).

I basically try and avoid all obvious carbohydrates and mainly eat meat, green veg, salad, eggs, cheese, avocados, cream and sugar free jelly (not all in the same bowl at the same time). So I aim at zero, but reckon I pick up about 25g a day from less obvious sources (and the odd splash of milk in my tea, and ketchup on my eggs).

Even on <25g a day, I still don't get any "purple" unless I really cut back on meat. As a low carber, is easy to eat meat for breakfast, lunch and tea. At the moment I'm avoiding breakfast (apart from a bulletproof coffee), cutting out milk from my tea, eating a small piece of meat and some salad at lunchtime, and a smallish piece of meat and some green veg for dinner (followed by sugar free jelly and squirty cream).

Some people find it easier, but for me, Ketosis = Exercise + Low Carb + Protein Restriction.

Some people say that the Ketostix aren't all that effective at detecting ketosis, but I find that they correlate strongly with the blood meter. I'll do a 3 way comparison over the next week, when my new breathalyzer arrives.

This is virtually exactly what I did when I tried out a ketogenic diet! Though it was recommended, I couldn't stomach putting cream in my coffee so stuck to semi-skimmed milk

I'm looking to go back on the ketogenic diet, as it really helped out with general weight loss (I wasn't overweight, was just looking to get a little more lean), improved energy levels and definitely helped me improve my iron levels. Any chance you could give a little more info on this breathalyzer? I was using ketostix and found that they worked fairly well, but if there's a more efficient way to do it then I'm all ears!

 

[borofergie]

I'm looking to go back on the ketogenic diet, as it really helped out with general weight loss (I wasn't overweight, was just looking to get a little more lean), improved energy levels and definitely helped me improve my iron levels. Any chance you could give a little more info on this breathalyzer? I was using ketostix and found that they worked fairly well, but if there's a more efficient way to do it then I'm all ears!

I certainly will give you a full review, and a side by side comparison of urine vs blood vs breath over a couple of weeks.

I got an email today saying that it is in the post, so hopefully I'll get it sometime next week.

 

[Alanp35]

At $150 you're going to have to give it some serious use to ensure pay back. Be great to hear your results and comments.



Late onset T1, several auto immune issues.
Humalogmix25 twice a day, Methotrexate 25mg once per week, FolicAcid 5mg once per week, prednisolone 5mg daily, Allopurinol 300mg, Calcichew-D3 800iu, Levothyroxine 50mcg, Atenolol 50mg, Losarten 100mg, Aspirin 75mg, Nicorandil 20mg, Nitrolingual GTN spray, Metformin 2000mg, Allimemazine 10mg, Lanzoprazole 30mg, Atorvastatin 20mg, Co Codamol 8/500mg, Depo Medrone (Methylprednisolone) or double Prednisolone for 7 days in case of RA flare.

 

[Robbity]

I've assumed that the Ketostix are only measuring the ketones that are "surplus" and are being flushed out of your body via your urine, so as long as you get (even low) positive results you're in ketosis?

So my understanding is that high readings means that you are probably dehydrated and the ketones are therefore more concentrated, or you're flushing out a lot of surplus ones. As I'm trying to lose weight I'm working on the basis that I don't want to have too high a reading as that would mean I'm taking in more fat than I need and this would prevent me burning my existing body fat more efficiently?

I'm happy to be corrected if my assumptions are way out!

Robbity

 

[borofergie]

At $150 you're going to have to give it some serious use to ensure pay back. Be great to hear your results and comments.

Trust me, I'd test my blood ketones hourly if I could, but at a £1 a shot I can't really justify it, so I try and keep it to once or twice a day. I only test my blood if the ketostix are showing positive.

 

[borofergie]

As I'm trying to lose weight I'm working on the basis that I don't want to have too high a reading as that would mean I'm taking in more fat than I need and this would prevent me burning my existing body fat more efficiently?

You're right that the urinary ketones are surplus. There is some suggestion that after you are properly "fat adapted" the level or urinary ketones should drop as your metabolism starts to use them for energy instead.

I don't think that there is any difference between dietary and stored body fat oxidization in terms of ketone production. The exception to this is if you are eating lots of Medium Chain Triglycerides (such as from Coconut Oil or MCT oil), as these are turned into ketones more easily than longer chain fats.

I include a big gulp of MCT oil in my Bullet Proof coffee every morning to try and boost ketone production.

 

[modesty007]

Have heard of Ketonix, measuring ketones in your breath, been trying this for a while (want to be in ketosis for weight-loss), not as precise as blood ketones, but I guess much more reliable than Ketostix. http://www.ketonix.com/index.php?lang=en

 

[robert72]

PB
and I've had the laziest day

 

[Robbity]

Have heard of Ketonix, measuring ketones in your breath, been trying this for a while (want to be in ketosis for weight-loss), not as precise as blood ketones, but I guess much more reliable than Ketostix. http://www.ketonix.com/index.php?lang=en

Unfortunately at a cost.... It looks to be a serious investment. Ketostix cost around £6.00 fro 50 and last me ages, and as I only need a rough and ready guide I don't think I could justify the cost, much though I fancy one being a bit of a gadget freak!

Robbity

 

[borofergie]

PB
and I've had the laziest day

View attachment 4128

No-one likes a show off....

Mine are right down again, despite starving myself all day at the marathon (as a spectator). I haven't managed to run this weekend, hopefully after a few miles tomorrow I'll get some purple.

 

[Robbity]

I don't think that there is any difference between dietary and stored body fat oxidization in terms of ketone production. The exception to this is if you are eating lots of Medium Chain Triglycerides (such as from Coconut Oil or MCT oil), as these are turned into ketones more easily than longer chain fats.

I include a big gulp of MCT oil in my Bullet Proof coffee every morning to try and boost ketone production.

Many thanks for your answer.

But to clarify what I was trying to say, was that (again) I assume that fat intake gets processed before stored fat, so that if I'm eating too much of it, I'm not going to be as successful in using up the stored fat? And I've got a lot of that to dispose of yet!

And I''ll have to try more coconut oil , but I don't think I could cope with it in my coffee...

Robbity

 

[Spiker]

Ketostix you should be able to get on prescription if you are diabetic. Well, at least if you are T1. Maybe not if you are T2.

I was going to ask if the blood ketone meter supplies were on prescription but from reading further above, I guess not, quid a pop. My blood ketone meter I got for free at DAFNE is sitting unused for want of strips to put in it.

 

[borofergie]

Unfortunately at a cost.... It looks to be a serious investment. Ketostix cost around £6.00 fro 50 and last me ages, and as I only need a rough and ready guide I don't think I could justify the cost, much though I fancy one being a bit of a gadget freak!

Mine is in the post:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/new-ketone-breathalyzer-gadget.55961/

You can probably justify it in comparison to ketone blood test strips, which are about £1 a go. But you're right, the only justification I really needed was "amount of geek value".

Right now, being is ketosis is very important to me. If I can't get to a good level in the months leading up to the Berlin Marathon, I'm going to have to "carb-up".

 

[borofergie]

I was going to ask if the blood ketone meter supplies were on prescription but from reading further above, I guess not, quid a pop. My blood ketone meter I got for free at DAFNE is sitting unused for want of strips to put in it.

I get mine off ebay. I used to snap up all the out-of-date ones at a massive discount, but Jimmy Moore has created a new market for ketosis testing, and there is a lot more competition for the strips.