LCHF Pushes My LDL Cholesterol Way Up

cz_dave

Well-Known Member
Messages
448
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
When I was starting LCHF, I wondered what it would do to my cholesterol (my numbers were always borderline at best) but I decided I would not worry about it until I get some numbers from the lab. So, now I have them and they are really not that great really.

HDL: 1.21
LDL: 4.60
Trig: 0.96
HbA1c: 39

I started LCHF and have been in ketosis (ketones typically in the optimum ketone level for nutritional ketosis) for about 40 days now (since end of July) and I was low carbing even before.

The lipid numbers I got before going on LCHF are from May:
HDL: 1.19
LDL: 3.00
Trig: 1.23
HbA1c: 38

So, between May and August there is a slight decrease in triglycerides but quite a surge in LDL. Most probably, going LCHF has increased my LDL cholesterol. I suppose it could have been the change in my diet or ketosis itself, or both.

Before going LCHF, I would eat very few foods with high saturated fat content. I would also not eat foods high in cholesterol, such as eggs. After adopting LCHF, I would start eating more cheese, butter and I would eat an egg per day or so. So, the change in the diet would be the first candidate to blame or the increase.

However, I also found a few opinions saying that it could also be the metabolic changes brought about by nutritional ketosis itself that contribute to the increase in LDL cholesterol.

So far, I have done just a little bit of reading, watched the interesting video with Ken Sikaris, found a few interesting cases of people who experienced something similar like this one. I also bought a book on the topic "What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers?", have not finished it yet but find it a little too optimistic about having high LDL numbers (e.g. relying on the hope that I would have low LDL particle numbers and that this would make all the difference).

So, my goal is to decrease my LDL and stay on LCHF if possible. The most obvious changes that I could do to my diet I suppose is to decrease the saturated fat content in my food as well as the foods high in cholesterol and do another blood test in two months.

The challenge that I face is that it seems my body already struggles with highish LDL cholesterol values and so the changes to my diet may be a bit limited. I have already been eating a lot of foods that supposedly lower LDL cholesterol, such as: avocado, nuts, etc. My main source of fat has always been extra virgin olive oil.

This is what I ate yesterday:
Breakfast:
- Plain yogurt (3% fat), a cup of home-made chicken broth, almonds (40g)

Lunch:
- Sardines fried in olive oil, half avocado with cherry tomatoes, green leaf salad with olive oil and lemon dressing, some hazelnuts (30g)

Dinner:
- Grilled turkey breast with olive oil, half avocado, green leaf salad with olive oil and lemon dressing, cucumber, macadamia nuts (30g)

This is my diet after having dropped the morning boiled egg with a few slices of butter and some cheese for lunch. I have also decided to experiment with slightly raising my daily intake of carbs to about 70g, proteins to 100g which should leave fat at about 170g for a daily calorie intake of 2,200. My BMI is just fine, so I want to maintain my weight.

So, the main question I have is: How can I lower my LDL cholesterol while staying on LCHF?

Everyone's advice much appreciated (@Spiker, @tim2000s, @LucySW and others...)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,323
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
When I was starting LCHF, I wondered what it would do to my cholesterol (my numbers were always borderline at best) but I decided I would not worry about it until I get some numbers from the lab. So, now I have them and they are really not that great really.

HDL: 1.21
LDL: 4.60
Trig: 0.96
HbA1c: 39

I started LCHF and have been in ketosis (ketones typically in the optimum ketone level for nutritional ketosis) for about 40 days now (since end of July) and I was low carbing even before.

The lipid numbers I got before going on LCHF are from May:
HDL: 1.19
LDL: 3.00
Trig: 1.23
HbA1c: 38

So, between May and August there is a slight decrease in triglycerides but quite a surge in LDL. Most probably, going LCHF has increased my LDL cholesterol. I suppose it could have been the change in my diet or ketosis itself, or both.

Before going LCHF, I would eat very few foods with high saturated fat content. I would also not eat foods high in cholesterol, such as eggs. After adopting LCHF, I would start eating more cheese, butter and I would eat an egg per day or so. So, the change in the diet would be the first candidate to blame or the increase.

However, I also found a few opinions saying that it could also be the metabolic changes brought about by nutritional ketosis itself that contribute to the increase in LDL cholesterol.

So far, I have done just a little bit of reading, found a few interesting cases of people who experienced something similar like this one. I also bought a book on the topic "What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers?", have not finished it yet but find it a little too optimistic about having high LDL numbers (e.g. relying on the hope that I would have low LDL particle numbers and that this would make all the difference).

So, my goal is to decrease my LDL and stay on LCHF if possible. The most obvious changes that I could do to my diet I suppose is to decrease the saturated fat content in my food as well as the foods high in cholesterol and do another blood test in two months.

The challenge that I face is that it seems my body already struggles with highish LDL cholesterol values and so the changes to my diet may be a bit limited. I have already been eating a lot of foods that supposedly lower LDL cholesterol, such as: avocado, nuts, etc. My main source of fat has always been extra virgin olive oil.

This is what I ate yesterday:
Breakfast:
- Plain yogurt (3% fat), a cup of home-made chicken broth, almonds (40g)

Lunch:
- Sardines fried in olive oil, half avocado with cherry tomatoes, green leaf salad with olive oil and lemon dressing, some hazelnuts (30g)

Dinner:
- Grilled turkey breast with olive oil, half avocado, green leaf salad with olive oil and lemon dressing, cucumber, macadamia nuts (30g)

This is my diet after having dropped the morning boiled egg with a few slices of butter and some cheese for lunch. I have also decided to experiment with slightly raising my daily intake of carbs to about 70g, proteins to 100g which should leave fat at about 170g for a daily calorie intake of 2,200. My BMI is just fine, so I want to maintain my weight.

So, the main question I have is: How can I lower my LDL cholesterol while staying on LCHF?

Everyone's advice much appreciated (@Spiker, @tim2000s, @LucySW and others...)


Clearly it's up to you how you tackle this, but it's very worthwhile watching this, if you haven't already:


It explains up to date thinking on lipids in conjunction with an LCHF lifestyle. There are several other, similar presentations on YouTube by LCHFers.

Three moths is a relatively short period in terms of lipids, and it isn't unusual for some to show an apparent degradation of their results before an improvement or better understanding.

Good luck with it all.
 

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,796
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
When I was starting LCHF, I wondered what it would do to my cholesterol (my numbers were always borderline at best) but I decided I would not worry about it until I get some numbers from the lab. So, now I have them and they are really not that great really.

HDL: 1.21
LDL: 4.60
Trig: 0.96
HbA1c: 39

I started LCHF and have been in ketosis (ketones typically in the optimum ketone level for nutritional ketosis) for about 40 days now (since end of July) and I was low carbing even before.

The lipid numbers I got before going on LCHF are from May:
HDL: 1.19
LDL: 3.00
Trig: 1.23
HbA1c: 38

So, between May and August there is a slight decrease in triglycerides but quite a surge in LDL. Most probably, going LCHF has increased my LDL cholesterol. I suppose it could have been the change in my diet or ketosis itself, or both.

Before going LCHF, I would eat very few foods with high saturated fat content. I would also not eat foods high in cholesterol, such as eggs. After adopting LCHF, I would start eating more cheese, butter and I would eat an egg per day or so. So, the change in the diet would be the first candidate to blame or the increase.

However, I also found a few opinions saying that it could also be the metabolic changes brought about by nutritional ketosis itself that contribute to the increase in LDL cholesterol.

So far, I have done just a little bit of reading, watched the interesting video with Ken Sikaris, found a few interesting cases of people who experienced something similar like this one. I also bought a book on the topic "What The HDL Is Wrong With My Numbers?", have not finished it yet but find it a little too optimistic about having high LDL numbers (e.g. relying on the hope that I would have low LDL particle numbers and that this would make all the difference).

So, my goal is to decrease my LDL and stay on LCHF if possible. The most obvious changes that I could do to my diet I suppose is to decrease the saturated fat content in my food as well as the foods high in cholesterol and do another blood test in two months.

The challenge that I face is that it seems my body already struggles with highish LDL cholesterol values and so the changes to my diet may be a bit limited. I have already been eating a lot of foods that supposedly lower LDL cholesterol, such as: avocado, nuts, etc. My main source of fat has always been extra virgin olive oil.

This is what I ate yesterday:
Breakfast:
- Plain yogurt (3% fat), a cup of home-made chicken broth, almonds (40g)

Lunch:
- Sardines fried in olive oil, half avocado with cherry tomatoes, green leaf salad with olive oil and lemon dressing, some hazelnuts (30g)

Dinner:
- Grilled turkey breast with olive oil, half avocado, green leaf salad with olive oil and lemon dressing, cucumber, macadamia nuts (30g)

This is my diet after having dropped the morning boiled egg with a few slices of butter and some cheese for lunch. I have also decided to experiment with slightly raising my daily intake of carbs to about 70g, proteins to 100g which should leave fat at about 170g for a daily calorie intake of 2,200. My BMI is just fine, so I want to maintain my weight.

So, the main question I have is: How can I lower my LDL cholesterol while staying on LCHF?

Everyone's advice much appreciated (@Spiker, @tim2000s, @LucySW and others...)

Hi Dave, I'm no expert, as much as the ones you've tagged, but in my experience and I had high cholesterol due to eating too many carbs, not enough full fat and overproduction of insulin. I have been in and around ketosis for over two years and my latest cholesterol figures are not perfect but getting there, total 4.8 LDL 3.0. So you see I'm not far off.
It's a marathon not a sprint. Don't stop doing something that is working and by figures you've posted you too are getting there but slowly.
Don't fall into the trap of trying something for the reason that it's not as fast as you wish it to be! Keep low carbing, keep eating the full fat! It works
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

tim2000s

Expert
Retired Moderator
Messages
8,934
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Other
That's practically a 25% drop in trigs, which is a great result. LDL may increase but it isn't just amount, it's also type that's important.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 people

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Yes, but Sikaris also says he doesn't know about very high LDL. *Probability* of fluffy and harmless LDL isn't really enough in my view.

If you want to actually *know* if it's worrying, you'll have to get a private Apolipoprotein B test to show your LDL particle numbers, not size. Ain't no other way.

Otherwise you can either hope for the best à la Sikaris, or as you're doing, up the monounsats in relation to the satfats.

Dayspring (linked in the article you posted) and Attia are a lot tougher about this.

Dayspring: http://www.lecturepad.org/index.php...mous-case-291-can-losing-weight-worsen-lipids

Attia (the second part of the post, from "And contrary to what some of you might think ..."):

http://eatingacademy.com/cholesterol-2/random-finding-plus-pi

Though, having said that, low Trigs are very very important.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I would be celebrating the low Trigs, and letting things settle down several months after my body adjusted to the lchf.

You say you are happy with your weight and are increasing fats to maintain. Does that mean you have been losing? If so, your cholesterol wont settle and reflect your new status until weeks after your weight stabilises.

40 days is imho far too short a time to draw any conclusions other than to do a Trig Reduction Happy Dance
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Yes actually you're totally right Brunneria. It takes up to a year for lipids to settle down after weight loss. Let it go, and do that dance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

Ian DP

Well-Known Member
Messages
712
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Chips
In my opinion (and I am no expert), your diet is not high fat, just low carb. Turkey breast is low fat, your yoghurt is low fat. Any idea what your percentage fat content is? My fat content is 80% (5% carb, 15% protein) and my HDL is higher than my LDL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people

donnellysdogs

Master
Messages
13,233
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
My levels and hubbys went in wrong direct after adding in full fat cream, cheese, eggs and butter. He not diabetic, I'm type 1. He was put on 40mg atoravastatin. After cutting the heavy saturates and going more to the avocados etc he got it agreed with GP from his last results to go to 10mg. He has just had test done again after 3 months (total 6 months now) of med diet to see if he can totally withdraw from statins. Statins really lowered his HDL worringly so and did next to nothing for lipids. He does now want to take statins and prefers the med food with oily fish. We now only eat 2 or 3 boiled eggs a week. Only cheese is scrapings of goat or sheep feta on salads. Lots of avocado and olives.
Today bought 10 half price (slabs of salmon) at Morrisons for £7/kg.. Amazingly cheap.. Cut them up into 30 sluces and froze them. Makes a really cheap salad meal with big pueces of salmon at the equivalent £1 each slice!. Cleared the shelves totally. We both put through 5 packs each incase we were limited by Morrisons.

We did what you did.. We changed totally to med foods. Worked a little within 3 months.. Got to wait till Tues for results of his latest tests. Mine not due yet.
 

donnellysdogs

Master
Messages
13,233
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
People that can't listen to other people's opinions.
People that can't say sorry.
My levels and hubbys went in wrong direct after adding in full fat cream, cheese, eggs and butter. He not diabetic, I'm type 1. He was put on 40mg atoravastatin. After cutting the heavy saturates and going more to the avocados etc he got it agreed with GP from his last results to go to 10mg. He has just had test done again after 3 months (total 6 months now) of med diet to see if he can totally withdraw from statins. Statins really lowered his HDL worringly so and did next to nothing for lipids. He does now want to take statins and prefers the med food with oily fish. We now only eat 2 or 3 boiled eggs a week. Only cheese is scrapings of goat or sheep feta on salads. Lots of avocado and olives.
Today bought 10 half price (slabs of salmon) at Morrisons for £7/kg.. Amazingly cheap.. Cut them up into 30 sluces and froze them. Makes a really cheap salad meal with big pueces of salmon at the equivalent £1 each slice!. Cleared the shelves totally. We both put through 5 packs each incase we were limited by Morrisons.

We did what you did.. We changed totally to med foods. Worked a little within 3 months.. Got to wait till Tues for results of his latest tests. Mine not due yet.

Do literally pour olive oil dressing all over my salads. Hubby uses the herbs from the olive dishes and mixes with olive oil (about 1/3rd less than me).
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

cz_dave

Well-Known Member
Messages
448
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
In my opinion (and I am no expert), your diet is not high fat, just low carb. Turkey breast is low fat, your yoghurt is low fat. Any idea what your percentage fat content is? My fat content is 80% (5% carb, 15% protein) and my HDL is higher than my LDL.

Ok, I forgot to mention that I poured a few spoons of olive oil over the turkey breast :) My fat content is similar to yours.
 

cz_dave

Well-Known Member
Messages
448
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
If you want to actually *know* if it's worrying, you'll have to get a private Apolipoprotein B test to show your LDL particle numbers, not size. Ain't no other way.

Lucy, did you have the test done and if so, did you find it helpful?
 

cz_dave

Well-Known Member
Messages
448
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Thanks so much to everyone for their comments and advice. I will now follow the Mediterranean diet (without the pasta :( ), cut most saturated fat and will provide an update on how it goes once I do new tests.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tim2000s

Expert
Retired Moderator
Messages
8,934
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Other
I started with something much more akin to the metabolic diet. That cut dairy almost completely and split fat and protein 50:50. The effect was to hugely increase HDL, hugely reduce trigs and ldl.

Having said that, the reason for increasing HDL is because it aids the removal of LDL from the blood. In diabetics there is significant evidence that this mechanism doesn't work. I'll have to find the research for it.

EDIT: This is what I'd read: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Lucy, did you have the test done and if so, did you find it helpful?
No, I haven't done it. At some future point will try to do in the UK (I live in Denmark, don't think its available here). You'd have to do it several times though, or would be meaningless.

Would also be nice to see CRP, a useful inflammation marker. Or even high sensitivity CRP. But money/time are *not* no object.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

LucySW

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,945
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Thanks so much to everyone for their comments and advice. I will now follow the Mediterranean diet (without the pasta :( ), cut most saturated fat and will provide an update on how it goes once I do new tests.
Yes, but as Brunneria says, losing weight in itself shocks the whole system and it takes quite a time before lipids can be judged representational.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
If you change your diet too rapidly, you will never find out if your recent diet was a winning combo, once things settle down.

I would be very loathe to abandon the delights of cheese and cream for endless oily fish and salads if (over the long term) both gave me excellent blood scores.

Although I agree that most of us would benefit from more HDL.

(I eat both fish, and salads, but seem to do excellently on cream, cheese, steak, veggies, etc. etc. as well)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

cz_dave

Well-Known Member
Messages
448
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Franziska Spritzler of the Low Carb Dietician blog has written quite extensively about this issue, including her own experiments to solve the issue for herself:

http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com/blo...ts-cardiovascular-disease-risk-and-what-i-eat

.
So, big thanks for sharing this link. I followed the diet recommended by Franziska Spritzler and it looks like it helped. After 2 months on the diet, my LDL dropped to 3.28 from the previous 4.60. Still not within the norm but already a significant improvement. My HDL remained more less constant, at 1.12. Trigs dropped from 0.96 to 0.77 which I suppose is good too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people