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Low Carbs and Fibre

Discussion in 'Low Calorie Diets' started by juliao, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. juliao

    juliao · Member

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    Dear All

    This is one of the main concerns for me.
    We are told we should be aiming at 30g, (GDA is lower at 24g) of non digestable carbs a day, otherwise known as fibre, or non starch polysaccharide(NSP) below 20g is considered to be dangerous for extended periods of time; This amount of fibre(30g) has been shown to reduce the risk of heart disease; and i read elsewhere diabetes also!!!

    Frequently NSP and digestible carbs are linked in a food and it is only our digestive system that seperates them.

    for example 100g of white bread would come in at about 70g carbohydrate whereas wholemeal/seeded breads come in as low as 37g carbs per 100g; the difference is a combination of other nutrients including fibre and fats. Also the GI of wholemeal/seeded bread is lower.

    So it is healthier to change from white bread to wholemeal/seeded bread as yes you are reducing your carb intake but also adding fibre-which is essential to a healthy gut, and reducing GI also.
    Many people have been converted to wholemeal bread/seeded bread without or before being diabetic so if bread is cut out completely(in an attempt to lower carb intake) and sufficient care is not taken about eating other foods then fibre is also greatly reduced.

    very low non digestable carbohydrate(fibre) diets are dangerous for more than a short period of time because they upset the digestive system, people either become constipated putting great pressure of the movement of faeces through the intestines or they get diarrhoea and possible pain as the intestines pump fluid or nothing through. One possible result, diverticulitis, a very painful disease and on sufficient increase for my local GP to have a dedicated nurse specialist for it as well as diabetes!

    Although I have used bread as an example it also applies to other starch foods such as rice, pasta (a wheat product), potatoes-(best eaten with their skins), etc. as so many of these have had fibre removed before they are packaged and sold for consumption.

    Any extreme diet can be effective for a short period of time to reach a desired effect, but should not be sustained, it is nearly always important to aim for a healthy balanced maintenance diet, Coping with diabetes is hard enough without increasing the risks of other diet related illnesses.

    So yes I do have a suitably sized jacket potato with a low fat, carb free topping. I do have a sandwich with similar type of filling I do have a small portion of new potatoes with their skin on but I rarely eat white rice or pasta; and seem to tolerate noodles better than pasta, not worked out why yet.

    We know we need to get our Blood Glucose levels under control, because of the long term side effects uncontrolled diabetes has, however this should not be at the risk of increasing our chances of developing other equally devastating illnesses.

    I hope this goes some way to explaining why I do not 'Low Carb' and do not recommend it for extended periods of time. I want to take care of 'ALL OF ME' . Currently I am aiming at 120g of digestible carbs a day- though some days it probably comes in at 150g. Although not considered 'LOW' as advocated by 'Low Carbers' it is between 80g and 110g lower than GDA of 230g

    I have written this to aid understanding of ME, as it is what I know best, some of it may be useful to others but is by now ways meant as prescriptive.

    Julia
     
  2. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    Good posting, I agree totally about the need for fibre and it can be quite actually quite difficult to get sufficient even when you do eat wholegrains and lots of fruit and veg. Pulses are excellent sources though.
    An 180g Jacket potato has almost 5 g of fibre, predominantly soluble. ( for comparison 90g of spinach has 1.9) My only quibble (from a diabetic point of view) is that jacket potatoes are surprisingly high gi so work quite quickly, I would add some sort of fat to 'slow' it down.

    Its clear that many people do eat very low fibre diets. A little while ago there was a snapshot nutritional analysis of a days diet from various people on the forum. Nobody got to the 25g level some were extremely low (results: 4.1, 3.3, 11.0, 7.56, 4.8, 16.2, 23; 15; 14; 16; 17; 12). It worries me that levels as low as this may be storing up problems for the future.
    I 've been looking for a good, simple list of fibre content, the one in this pamphlet divides them into pedominantly soluble/ predominantly insoluble.
    http://www.gloshospitals.org.uk/ppi/leaflets/pdf/ghpi0811.pdf
     
  3. cugila

    cugila · Master

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    Hi Folks.

    Just to clarify this, the Topic has been duplicated so that both low carbers and non low carbers can put their comments on in the relevant area. This is then visible to all.

    If you are a low carber, read, but do not post here.

    Ken.
     
  4. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    sorry, probably not a sensible thing to do, but for clarification to another poster. 90gms cooked weight of spinach is the same as 180gm of raw spinach.( half the initial weight is water). Perhaps I should have pointed this out originally. The comparison is valid, though actually my point is that you need fibre from a variety of sources in order to get enough and some veg actually has very little... spinach hass moderate amounts, some things such as iceberg lettuce are negligible
    But why not weigh and work out how much you take in and then if necessary work out the best way for you to include more fibre in your diet ? Having diabetes is a problem in itself, why add to it?
    I thought I was eating sufficient, lots of veg, a couple of portions of fruit, some wholegrain bread, porrridge and new potaotes but my analysis still came out as 23gms from this average day , not much below recommended, but I knew that on some days I probably ate less. I've now added more pulses to my diet in order to keep the average up.

    edited to add : (I had to stop for lunch) whiting,new potaotes, green beans, asparagus, cauliflower and strawberries!
     
  5. jopar

    jopar · Well-Known Member

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    I’ve read the comments in the low carb forum,

    To a certain extent they are right in when they say, that you can over-come the fibre intake issue with increasing the amount of permissible vegetables and fruits…

    Putting aside phoenix comments concerning the hassle of calculating this into a daily regime of calculations we already face (more so for those of us who have to calculate our carb content to adjust insulin dose) I’ve got a couple more questions to ask..

    Vegetables and Fruits that are permissible in the extreme low carb diet are those that on an average portion of that particular vegetable/fruit is very low in carb content so has minimum effect on blood glucose but at these average size portions lack fibre content.

    But by increasing the portions size to take into account the fibre intake, this would also increase the carb content alongside it… So this would surely have an increased effect on the blood sugar? So you’ve gained on one hand, but lost on the other you’ve increased the carb count…

    Also there is another problem, even though an increase of several items would be involved, as in theory no-one going to increase just the cabbage to cover fibre, but increase all the selection of permissible vegetables and fruits… This would mean an increase of quantity on the plate/bowl or food consumed in one day… Which is fine if you have a large appetite? But how ever if you are like me who has a small appetite this actually poses major problems indeed, as I already struggle with balancing it all within my appetite to ensure that nutrient intake is covered…
     
  6. Thirsty

    Thirsty · Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick question. My wife adds bran to a number of foods to increase her fibre intake. Is there any reason why diabetics shouldn't do the same?
     
  7. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    I can't think of any, I have added it to bread. I think some people add it to poridge and of course all bran is often suggested as a 'good' cereal .
    There is evidence that the soluble fibre in oat bran( beta glucan) is benficial to people with diabetes may help lower lipids and reduce glycemic response.
     
  8. inwales

    inwales · Well-Known Member

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    I add wheat and oat bran to my diet.

    Seems to work well
     
  9. juliao

    juliao · Member

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    Hiya
    Even on a regular carb diet, there is a limit.

    Oatbran is very nearly 50% carbohydrate-perhaps there are other ways!!!

    As with most things its 'WHole Foods' that contain the fibre. If green leafed veggies are counted towards fibre intake then the stalks must be included as it is where most of the fibre is.

    just a couple of thoughts
    regards
    julia
     
  10. cugila

    cugila · Master

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    Re: Low Carbs and Fibre
    by juliao on 18 minutes ago

    Hiya low carbers
    Was quite surprised to see my post duplicated, though I see it did get a bit sticky there for a while.

    I am very interested in the fibre issue, and hopefully some more positive ideas and practices will come forward over time.

    Was looking at raw ingredients in tesco's today, could only find 'allisons' whoemeal self raising flour which came in at 61g carbs/100g flour only a few grams under white- I just wanted to have a wee bit of sponge at a family party, but decided against it-so many of the other flours are too heavy. Because there little kids involved as well did not want to use a ground nut fatless roulade,

    The whisking fatless sponge method works well with groud nuts, and buckwheat, but tends to be a bit grown up! (sweetners/sugar subs are another challenge)

    regards
    juliaojuliao


    Post moved to correct area - non low carb forum. cugila.
     
  11. sugarless sue

    sugarless sue · Master

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