Moderation on diabetes.co.uk

[Osidge]

In a recent thread on the need for a new Type1 Forum, the issue of moderation was raised. Perhaps it is germane in this period of review of forum arrangements to have a discussion on moderation. Till now, unpaid moderators have responded to reported comments, have intervened when threads are being derailed, have been the eyes and ears of the board looking for those who abuse it, including those of another forum who relish in having multiple accounts and causing trouble, have dealt with spam posters, have dealt with bullies and have generally ensured that the rules and ethos of the Forum are followed. Of course, infringers of the rules, or of common courtesy, do not like moderation - unless it becomes useful to them. My feeling is that the forum membership generally appreciates the work of the moderators and the fact that the forum is not a free-for-all. If I am wrong in my feeling and the work of moderators is not valued or wanted, then it would be good to know that. I have never been a fan of being in a place in which my contribution is not valued or wanted. That is a waste of a moderators time and, for me personally, time I could spend on my national advisory roles around clinical research and healthcare commissioning. Over to you to make your views known.

Regards

Doug

 

[andcol]

Doug I have also started a thread http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/what-would-you-expect-moderators-to-do.89476/

Maybe they should be merged

 

[andcol]

To answer your question is very hard. We as normal members do not see the work you put in as a moderator nor do we see how much rubbish goes on as normally moderation is kept to behind closed doors.

I expect you get a lot of reports from squabbles, adults are just aged children, which consumes mush of your time and I would be inclined to have a moan at both parties privately and then publicly. I also expect that staying impartial is extremely difficult.

 

[phil1966]

I think the problem is that, human nature being what it is, no-one likes being moderated but that doesn't mean it's wrong to do it!

I had a bit of a strop earlier in the year over what I felt at the time was unreasonable moderation.

However, that didn't reflect badly on the moderation team but rather it reflected badly on me and my inability to be mature enough to see the bigger picture. I avoided the forum for a while due to being embarrassed by my strop but came back with my tail between my legs and a more enlightened view of things

I guess what I'm saying is that the forum wouldn't work without moderation and you guys do a great job (even if it's not always openly appreciated) and as long as the rules are applied when moderating (which they are as far as I can see), then no-one should complain and if they do, they can borrow my mirror to have a look in

 

[zand]

Well I would expect moderators to be fair and even handed and unbiased.

Doug you say " Of course, infringers of the rules, or of common courtesy, do not like moderation - unless it becomes useful to them." Then why are some abusers who post nasty replies allowed to get away with it time after time whilst others are banned? I think I can see a pattern in those bans. It's the LCHF rule breakers who have been banned and the rest are tolerated more. Is this the right thing to do? Maybe the mods views are coloured by the history of the forum? Is it fair to judge new members by what happened in the past? And those that were banned way back then were right after all weren't they? LCHF really does work and none of them have got scurvy yet.

I want my posts to help people. It doesn't help when someone tells me I am wrong (about something I know about myself) and then I am banned from the thread and can't reply. Everyone's views should be heard. I have become childish myself at times out of sheer frustration that I have not been allowed to reply to a poster who was wrong about me. The standard "PM the other person" doesn't tell everyone else the facts, especially newbies.

 

[Bluetit1802]

There are good moderators and bad moderators. It may help matters if the moderators were moderated by an independent group, and brought to task if necessary. If this already happens, there isn't much evidence of it.

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[Bluetit1802]

I would also like to point out that the label "moderator" under the user name has disappeared and been replaced by "type". ( I have mentioned this to administrator) but as things stand, things could get extremely confusing.

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[Brunneria]

You asked for a frank response. I am about to give it.
I sincerely hope that there will not be any penalties from speaking frankly (as I have seen happen in the past)

I have, at times deeply appreciated the moderation here. These have been occasions where trolling, provocative, trouble making posts have been removed. Also sales posts. And posts where the poster is obviousy just poking people with a pointy stick. We have some malicious posters, and moderation sometimes keep them in line.

At other times, I have deeply resented the moderation here. I don't see what is said behind the scenes, but I have seen good, helpful, considerate posters gagged, banned, barred from threads and eventually driven off in what has looked sometimes like personal vendettas by particular mods. The current system seems to enable this. Over the 2+ years I have been posting I have seen this happen several times, and suspect it has happened a lot more often than I have witnessed. We have also lost some excellent mods. A couple of them openly posted how uncomfortable they found the current mod setup, and left because of it. Their threads were removed immediately, so very few people were able to see these comments.

Doug, you have mentioned your charity work previously, always with the implication that your time is fully occupied there and that moderating here is an add on, and at times an inconvenience. If that is how you truly feel, I am sure that none of us would like you to stay when you have better, more rewarding things that you enjoy. Basically, if your heart is not in it, then go somewhere which gives you what you are looking for.

The same, of course, applies to people who post here, some of whom put in a great deal of time and effort, answering questions, helping people, and spreading knowledge. Such posters are doing voluntary work too, some of it incredibly helpful and generous.

 

[Osidge]

@zand you are quite right. In my time we have never moderated unfairly about LCHF. We have taken the view that dietary needs and medication are different for all of us. We have tried to keep that as a basic premise for the forum but it has often been disregarded by "the only way is my way" members who can make life very difficult for other members. LCHF is one of the many choices we currently have in our diabetes toolbox. Two points; the vast majority of our members contributions are never moderated and a number of our new members are actually old members with new names!! Members of another forum have often caused trouble on this forum. My only visit to that other forum had me looking at a claim to fame of a member of that forum for having multiple accounts on this forum and causing trouble!! It really takes all sorts and such activity will ever be accompanied by explanation or apology.

@Bluetit1802 I would be interested in hearing what you view as good moderation and what as bad. The administrators of the forum are, of course, keeping an eye on moderation.

Regards

Doug

 

[Osidge]

@Brunneria Many thanks for your frank reply. At this time I would only like to say that I view being a moderator here as an extremely important part of what I do. You would be surprised at the number of times this forum has had a positive mention from me at clinical research meetings under the National Institute of Health Research. Knowing what people are involved with outside this forum can be helpful to other members.

Regards

Doug

 

[dannyw]

I think on the whole, the moderation team are appreciated but as members, we see a lot of inconsistency and petty edits, deletions and bans. I myself have received warnings, edits, deletions many times. OK, some I probably deserved but many were out of pure frustration and unfairness. There is no right of appeal for a member. The rule "A moderators decision is final" is archaic. This place should be a democracy. You admit yourself you've had no training yet feel qualified enough to ban someone for life ? You think that's fair ?
I also note how busy you are elsewhere which is admirable. However, members see you here so infrequently, it's difficult to understand how you can possibly keep tabs on such an active forum. You make moderating sound like you are doing it as a favour but in reality, it should be a privilege.
You did ask for honest responses which I have given. It is not my intention to upset anyone, my guess is that the role of a mod is probably a thankless task. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Consistency and fairness is key though.

 

[Hiitsme]

I think on the whole the moderation is good. I did find it very hard a few months back when the original fasting thread was locked. I wondered what I had done wrong. A thread about that disappeared - I know you (@Osidge ) had replied to me and I went looking for your reply so I could ask you a question and it wasn't there. As I couldn't remember your exact user name I couldn't contact you. I'm not in any way criticising the moderation but just saying some of us found it hard to understand what was happening. It took me a while to calm down and start using the forum again.
I am pleased that the forum is moderated and that abusive comments are dealt with. I think it is a very difficult job and impossible to please all.

 

[zand]

@zand you are quite right. In my time we have never moderated unfairly about LCHF. We have taken the view that dietary needs and medication are different for all of us. We have tried to keep that as a basic premise for the forum but it has often been disregarded by "the only way is my way" members who can make life very difficult for other members. LCHF is one of the many choices we currently have in our diabetes toolbox. Two points; the vast majority of our members contributions are never moderated and a number of our new members are actually old members with new names!! Members of another forum have often caused trouble on this forum. My only visit to that other forum had me looking at a claim to fame of a member of that forum for having multiple accounts on this forum and causing trouble!! It really takes all sorts and such activity will ever be accompanied by explanation or apology.

Regards

Doug

"The only way is my way" is said by a lot of people though , not just those who follow LCHF. I had a T1 telling me to lose weight by cutting calories. D'uh, like I hadn't thought of that in my 35+ years of trying to diet. There's a well known poster who states 'fat makes you fat' and he isn't even a standard T2, so what he says is unlikely to work for me and many other obese T2s. These comments seem to escape moderation though.

I was never moderated until I became a more prolific poster and people who didn't like LCHF started to argue with me about it. I had one other identity here myself, because everyone seemed to be doing it at the time. When I read the new rules which said "We prefer people only to have one ID" I pm'd Giverny and asked her to delete the second one. I like to abide by the rules, but I also like everyone to do so too. Again it's not just people from that 'other forum' who come back with new identities. There's a couple of people I can think of who have stirred up trouble on threads for LCHF followers and got them banned and then come back with a new ID only to try to get more people banned. Interesting that you don't mention those.

And that taboo subject... the other forum, if those people hadn't been banned for spreading the good news about LCHF there would never have been another forum. Yes it got nasty back then, posts were deleted. I know how I have felt when I have had posts deleted. The fact is that they were right, LCHF is a good safe way to manage diabetes, what a pity there was so much resistance to it back then. I only knew one of that person's extra ID's that you speak of, and I have to say the posts were excellent. That sock puppet was one of the reasons I stayed here. HIs posts put me on the right track, isn't that what really matters, the quality of the posts, not that he had been banned in another life? The other reason I started posting here was 3 friends....who since then have been banned too.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Bluetit1802 I would be interested in hearing what you view as good moderation and what as bad. The administrators of the forum are, of course, keeping an eye on moderation.

Regards

Doug[/USER]

My reasons are the same as those put forward by @Brunneria
It does seem there are some personal vendettas from time to time, and also there are some that take exception to any challenge to an answer to a poster's question (not a challenge to any moderation duties) by deleting/editing the challenge. I have seen this happen a few times. It's all rather petty and petulant.

EDIT. The red font is not of my doing and I can't get rid of it! Sorry.

 

[Brunneria]

@Brunneria Many thanks for your frank reply. At this time I would only like to say that I view being a moderator here as an extremely important part of what I do. You would be surprised at the number of times this forum has had a positive mention from me at clinical research meetings under the National Institute of Health Research. Knowing what people are involved with outside this forum can be helpful to other members.

Regards

Doug

But you don't need to be a moderator here to mention this forum in meetings.

You could be a member like the rest of us, without the moderator duties that you portray as burdensome.

 

[Robinredbreast]

In a recent thread on the need for a new Type1 Forum, the issue of moderation was raised. Perhaps it is germane in this period of review of forum arrangements to have a discussion on moderation. Till now, unpaid moderators have responded to reported comments, have intervened when threads are being derailed, have been the eyes and ears of the board looking for those who abuse it, including those of another forum who relish in having multiple accounts and causing trouble, have dealt with spam posters, have dealt with bullies and have generally ensured that the rules and ethos of the Forum are followed. Of course, infringers of the rules, or of common courtesy, do not like moderation - unless it becomes useful to them. My feeling is that the forum membership generally appreciates the work of the moderators and the fact that the forum is not a free-for-all. If I am wrong in my feeling and the work of moderators is not valued or wanted, then it would be good to know that. I have never been a fan of being in a place in which my contribution is not valued or wanted. That is a waste of a moderators time and, for me personally, time I could spend on my national advisory roles around clinical research and healthcare commissioning. Over to you to make your views known.

Regards

Doug

then there are anti lchf members who like to wind up others and because some of the mods agree, the two I'm thinking of get a free run.

Best to pm the Admin regarding your feelings.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Best to pm the Admin regarding your feelings.

Why?

 

[AndBreathe]

@Osidge - I have observed and managed many, many people in my lifetime and I will offer this feedback, which I hope will be taken in the spirit in which it is given.

To me, your opening post says much about you and your feelings about your role here and how you feel you are viewed or perceived by others. You and I have had a couple of PM interchanges where I have disagreed with something you have done or said, and each time you are keen to point out what important work you do, tirelessly, without fiscal reward, both here and elsewhere. Whilst that is extremely worthy, and I admire those who can find the time to give to others in so many ways, but sometimes you come across, to me, as almost martyred in spreading yourself so thinly.

Moderation is a thankless task. It's almost impossible to get it right for everyone (You can please some of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time).

In organisations where I have (professionally) run feedback groups, fora, and support services (for business critical IT systems), I would always advocate, encourage and if necessary enforce a rotational system to ensure burnout didn't happen and that my front line support staff could retain some balance perspective.

If you are feeling unappreciated, then it could be a wise time to take a break, whether by stepping back for a while, or indeed, if it feels better, stepping away, from that which is wearing you out. Perhaps, right now, that which is wearing you out is here? I can have no way of knowing that, and could be adding 2+2 to make a deeply flawed total. But, I will say, you are sounding battle weary, which is unhelpful on some may levels to you and the others you are trying to help or please.

Edit: Only to swap a couple of words around to make more sense.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I think this thread is an excellent example of why the moderators are doing a good, necessary job.
Within a few posts it's become a lchf issue.
.
There are other ways apart from lchf, they moderate equally on these threads as well.

(The forum isn't a democracy, as far as I know, someone owns it, sets the rules, appoints the management, and let's us post. If it didn't work, it wouldn't be as popular as it is now, the fact we're all here shows the majority of us seem to find the model is working ok)

 

[Robinredbreast]

But you don't need to be a moderator here to mention this forum in meetings.

You could be a member like the rest of us, without the moderator duties that you portray as burdensome.

There are moderators who are on here quite a lot and do a good job and are 'on the ball' meaning pro active, some are here less frequent. Yes it can feel like a thankless task at times.
The whole point of being a moderator, is too moderate, but also to be there, visible if a problem arises or a niggly question that needs answering. It's unpaid and if moderation takes up too much of a person valuable time, then resign as a mod, it's as simple as that.
Also, I believe all moderators should be visible when online, as I know not all are, they do need to be seen.