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New diagnosis as type 2 Hba1c test 104 and in shock

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Andy_J, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. Andy_J

    Andy_J · Member

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    Hello ,

    I am in a bit of a shock, about 2 years ago I was advised by a Dr I was borderline with a Hba1c result of 50. Past 6 months I have not felt well, some weird changes but I noticed in past 2-3 months I was drinking like a fish, I could get up and drink a tea, 1 litre plus of water in on session, and again and again. I was peeing for england up 3 -5 times a night and still thirsty. My recyle bin one day was full of bottled water and juice over 2 weeks I drank so much,

    Getting into to my Dr's was impossible until I spoke to the nurse and she advised me I was diabetic not borderline, and that with the symptoms as is I need testing. This was all done last thursday, Dr rings me up and says I have to go on 500MG metaformin for a week once a day then twice a day after first week. He confirmed I am very much a diabetic but still did not give my actual tests results, a few days later as my Dr's had pone line issues the nurse rang me and she explained my result is 104. I knew this was bad accroidng to the net and I felt rather sad over it if honest. I was advised not get a blood pressure monitor which I have done and keep a daily record, I also got myself a Accucheck to start taking a test in the morning before food and medication. Not sure if this was a good idea as 1st day result was 13.7mmol/l which reading the scales is high, today its 14.5 wich I dont understand why its up if no sugar or carbs. I have cut out anything sugar, so no fruit juice( I will miss my orange juice) no sugar in tea, no fizzy drinks. I was surprised I cant eat grapes as I do love them but only once a month if that. My weight is coming off me , not sure of that's an effect of diabetes or not. I saw on one post heavy exercise can bring up the levels, over a gentle walk is that true as I was moving an american fridge freezer before I tested today, and carrying in a new fridge. Then showered and sat down and tested BP and tested. Had my pill and wheetabix with milk only. Would love something on top ( cant stand honey).

    My brain is on overload, food labeling of zero added gets me now when I look at sugar levels.

    I trying my hardest to absorb it all, but decided first thing I will miss is a bit of sugar on my wheetabix, so are there any substitutes ?

    Also if my levels are high then why do I feel so **** now I am reducing. I will miss my roast potatoes on Sunday , may have 1 instead of the volume I had as reducing everything I can quickly.

    I would love some advice or pointers of a good book if anyone can recommend one that's not too daunting/scary
     
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  2. EllieM

    EllieM Type 1 · Moderator
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    Welcome to the forums, packed full with info on all aspects of diabetes.

    Honestly, most of the T2s on here don't eat wheetabix, it's got many too many carbs. How do you feel about bacon and egg, or maybe unsweetened greek yoghurt with berries? The issue here is not really the added sugar, but the total carbohydrate. (But congrats, cutting out the fruit juice should make quite a difference).

    But firstly, most important question, specially given your weight loss, has your doctor done a test to identify whether you have T2 or T1 diabetes? T1s have an autoimmune reaction which destroys their insulin producing cells, so their issue is not inability to process carbs, but lack of insulin to do that processing. T2s have insulin resistance, and need more and more insulin to process those carbs - eventually their bodies max out on the insulin production and their blood sugar goes up. At your age your doctor may have assumed T2 without testing (GAD and c-peptide) and you need to know as though the symptoms are the same (high blood sugars, leading to extreme thirst) the causes and treatments are different. Ask your nurse what tests have been done.

    T2 diabetics have a genetic inability to process high quantities of carbs, and modern "healthy" low fat high carb diets are packed with them. (Manufacturers reduce the fat in foods by adding sugar to make them more palatable.) That 104 is high, but plenty of folk on here have started with levels that high and gone back to normal by reducing their carbs. Your blood sugar meter is your friend. Test before a meal and two hours after. If the rise is more than 2mmol/L then you know that your body can't cope with the carbs in the meal.

    Your morning blood sugar will be high because of something called the dawn phenomena - your liver pumps out sugar to help you face the day but if you are having trouble metabolising that sugar then your levels go up. It's the bane of many a diabetic (T1 and T2) and is one reason why T2s tend to find that their fasting morning reading is the last one to come down when they use diet to control their levels.
     
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  3. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Welcome. I can only echo a lot of what Ellie has said.
    Take a look at these links and all the stuff in them.

    Intro to T2 and low carb. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/
    All the things I wish I’d been told earlier https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...ish-i’d-been-told-at-type-2-diagnosis.173817/

    You’ll be better informed than many a type 2 that hasn’t found these or similar forums afterwards.

    You were diabetic 2 yrs ago at 50. (48 and over is diabetic). Quite frankly this level of blasé and negligence I personally think is outrageous but sadly it’s not uncommon. Too many drs think it’ll only get worse anyway so why bother til it’s really bad :(

    you say you’ve lost weight? Since when and how much? Did you have plenty to lose or will this leave you gaunt? Whilst not definitive being overweight (a symptom btw not just a cause) makes type 2 more likely. Being slim and losing lots of weight really does mean you should get checked for type 1 as that then is also a possibility (though a few type 1 will also be overweight so no hard and fast rules). Cutting out the sugars could be the simple reason for the weight loss too.

    As well as the links above the diabetes code by Dr Jason fung is a good starter.

    as to why you feel rubbish your body is used to swimming in sugar. You are in the process of withdrawing that and your body is having tantrums over it, trying to get you to feed it sugar again. Treat it like a toddler and ignore it and it will shut up and get used to the improving new normals. Also as you cut carbs be aware you will need to maintain fluids and electrolytes, more details in the links above. And make sure you get plenty of protein and fats. Hunger is not the goal.
     
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  4. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The book that did it for me was Blood Sugar 101 by Jenny Ruhl (still available on Amazon). She gives an easy to understand description of how our food interacts with us, and introduces the Low Carb approach to eating.

    5 years ago I too was up in the same stratosphere as you. and my meter was regularly going off scale I was that bad, and my HbA1c came in at 99. I was on large dose of diabetic meds, and being threatened with insulin regimes. I found this forum, started LCHF and within a month or so I was getting regularly below 8 mmol/l on the meter. Nowadays I am in control, and rarely see anything above 7.4 or below 4 and I have dropped most of my medication.

    We are all different, and the advice from others about Type 1 is still a possibility, but you are evidently producing some insulin judging by the midrange post meal readings. especially after Weetabix or potatoes. It may just be a honeymoon period, but cutting carbs should help you take back some control.
     
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  5. MarkMunday

    MarkMunday Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    It is not just sugar that increase blood glucose. Nearly all carbohydrate is converted to glucose soon after you eat it. So when looking at food labels, look at the amount of carbohydrate it contains. Essentially all the white foods increase blood glucose (bread, pasta, biscuits, cereals, rice, potatoes etc). Most processed food contains lots of carbs. Fruit also contains lots of carbs, especially juice.
     
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  6. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Expert

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    You've already been given the link to The Nutritional Thingy, so I'm hoping that'll clear some things up for you. You'll have to learn to read nutritional information, I'm afraid. Only one bit on the packaging matters though, so it's relatively simple: Total carbs. That's what you're looking for. The rest you can pretty much ignore. (Be especially weary when something has "no added sugar"!). Weetabix is out, and woth your current levels I'd be avoiding spuds etc too. Maybe add a small amount back in when your levels are under control? Does that sound alright?

    Your diet is very rich in carbs, you'll really want to examine it and look for workable alternatives. Meaning stuff your blood sugars won't go bonkers over and will keep you both healthy and happy. You'll get there. We all basically started out where you are right now. And @HSSS makes a good point; changes you're making have your body in a tizzy. It will demand carbs, while you're kicking the habit. (Not overstating it, carbs are actually addictive. Trigger the same bits in the brain that hard drugs do!). It feels horrid for a bit, but I promise you, you'll be healthier and more energetic on the other side of this.

    Good luck,
    Jo
     
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  7. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    One of the most important things you did so far (apart from ditching the juice) was getting that blood glucose meter. The advice not to get one is detrimental advice. And do check out that nutrional thingy link by @JoKalsbeek it's a great starters guide. It's also posted in my sig line.
     
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  8. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    Hi. It sounds like you may be late onset T1 (LADA) and not T2. Unexpected weight loss together with high BS that comes from nowhere very quickly. The Metformin will not do much I'm afraid and it may be increased to 2000mg over the coming weeks. There are further tablets that could be added. You may need to ask the GP for the two T1 tests i.e. GAD and C-Peptide to try to determine your type if you are slim and the high BS continues. Yes, the Weetabix is best avoided and replace with egg & bacon etc. If you stay with one Weetabix then berries such as blueberries are very good and not too carby.
     
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  9. Andy_J

    Andy_J · Member

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    Firstly thank you for replying as I admit I am a bit upset.

    I never realised if I finger prick first thing its not necessarily the best time to do so another mistake on my part.

    I was overweight( 9 months ago) and had made an active reduction in what I basically call **** food, I did that about 4-5 months ago, but I noticed it had increased weight loss along with the thirst and peeing. I not what you can call skinny but my diet change is making a weight difference big time.

    I am shocked at Wheetabix, another mistake on my part as been having them for breakfast with mill and no sugar. Woke up today and did my finger test and its 16 today so feel like I have made more mistakes. All I had yesterday - water ,tea with no sugar, 4 wheetabix( mistake) , more water, lunch was roast beef and and carrots , onions and peppers no potatoes. A greek yoghurt and some nuts on it for pudding. I did have 2 apples during the day and lots of water. I need to find something I can flavout the water without the sugars etc.

    Thats why I just feel I am messing up as I thought wheetabix was good, I can move to Bacon and egg if needed but I do need breakfast as I get washed out without something in the morning.

    So if I am being honest my sugar in take has reduced to a very low level in comparison to 6 months ago it dropped about 3 months ago to less than 10-20% , I never realised the reduction can make me feel like **** is the best way to put it.

    I was a milk gluger ( full fat) , as in I can drink a pint easy in one go, but can see sugars in that so going to see if I can tolerate almond milk. If thats bad please shout.

    I never eat packet food, as I cook everything myself from scratch but rice, pasta is out now, need to check in bulgar but getting good and bad for it so need to read about so much that I east in a day, worse case I could live on salad and meet/fish as I can happily eat that.

    I need to sit down and read everything I can to see what mistakes I am making. Next Wednesday I start to double the Metformin to twice a day before breakfast and evening meal so I hope things start to come out of the red levels I see on all the charts.

    It is appreciated , and I hope its ok if I ask more questions .

    AJ
     
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  10. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    One thing you should be made aware of: Metformin is not there for glucose reduction. Its effect is very limited and even at 2 gram dose it will only drop a spike by a couple of points. Cutting carbs really is the best and quickest way to reduce blood sugars for those of us not needing insulin.

    Metformin is there because it helps with other problems that diabetic suffer from and is primarily there as protection for your heart and cardiovascular system. It is the go-to starting med that GPs are instructed to add in at diagnosis according to the NICE streetplan, as are the weekly increments up to full strength.

    Metformin is renowned for causing gastric distress, and is often mentioned in the forum. These effects are usually temporary and should clear up after a bedding in period. I have been on it for nearly 30 years now, and about once a month I still get a 'perfect storm' that keeps me regular.
     
  11. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Expert

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    It's not just okay if you ask more questions, it's actually quite good. So far you've learned weetabix isn't the best choice, neither is milk, apples etc... You're making progress. You can't learn all this stuff overnight and don't expect yourself to never stumble. lord knows I've made plenty of mistakes, but you learn from them and move on. You have a blood sugar spike, it goes away, and the next day you have another chance to get it right. No-one's going to flick a ruler at your fingers when you estimate something wrong. Also, can you begin to imagine just how many carbs you were putting away before you started cutting out sugars? If the stuff you eat now is still carb-heavy, how much worse was it before? You're gaining ground here.

    Couple of comments that might help: Forget sugar. Cutting down to 10 to 20% isn't going to do much good. Depending on what you use the stuff for, you might want to switch to stevia, an erythritol/stevia mix or some other sweetener. Stevia is plant-based, erythritol is a sugar alcohol, and those are safe to use. (Maltitol and sorbitol can have some gastro-intestilan consequences, but in moderation, they're fine). Xylitol comes closest to sugar, but is poison to fur babies, alas. I don't have it in the house. Artificial sweeteners are poisonous to your own gut bacteria, and you need those to function, so only use those sparingly. (They're in diet soda's and the like too.) If you could wean yourself off, that'd be even better. But that's the sugar covered.

    Metformin doesn't do anything about what you eat, besides a little hunger reduction... It just tells your liver to knock it off with the glucose dumps in the morning. (Up to 75% decrease). It's not a medication you want to depend on to cover your meals, because that's basically not what it's for, and it won't. That'd be either diet, or medication like gliclazide or insulin.

    Milk contains milk sugars, but if you went for full fat, that was the best choice you could make. If you can switch to cream (unsweetened) for your tea/coffee for instance, or double cream, that'd be good.

    Carbs you want to avoid: All cereal, bread-related products (anything made with grain/wheat/oats/corn flours), pasta, rice, corn, and such... And yeah, that does include bulgur and couscous, sorry. Maybe cauliflower rice can do the trick? Celeriac? Also, ditch the fruit save for berries. If you go for strawberries, -which you can incidentally toss into water for flavour- have them with some nice, decadent cream. Or even clotted cream. (Manna from heaven, that!). The fat in the cream will flatten the curve a bit when it comes to the slight amount of sugars in the strawberries, or any berry really, so you don't spike hard. As for breakfast, eggs and bacon are a good plan. You can add some variety by having high meat content sausages (Hecks I think is a suitable brand out there?) , have a tomato, mushrooms... I often have a chunk of deep frozen salmon and make a scrambled egg with it (keeps my vitamin d up to par), or same, but with a can of tuna. Tuna'll also do well as a leafy green's salad with capers, olives, mayo, pepper and salt. Remember, if you have a salad, check the dressing (a lot of them are sugary or contain honey. In a restaurant, just ask for olive oil or mayo, at home, mayo, olive oil or apple cider vinegar will work well), and also make sure there's something fatty in it, because just leafy greens will leave you hungry.. A warmed goat's cheese salad, salade nicoise, tuna, salmon, or instead of fats, protein in the form of carpaccio.... Just make sure there's something in there that'll fill you up. And no croutons! ;)

    Going over your meals yesterday: Water and tea are fine. Coffee with cream would be too.The weetabix obviously wasn't, and you had some underground veggies with your lunch, which isn't preferable... The beef was perfection, but carrots and onions weren't. The greek yoghurt, was it full fat? Because that'd be best, if it's low fat it's carbier. Nuts are mostly fine, though cashews, almonds and peanuts are a bit high. Pecans, walnuts and brazil nuts are best. And no apples... That right there was about 45 grams of sugar.

    Eggs, meat, fish, poultry, above ground veggies/leafy greens, cheeses, full fat greek yoghurt, cream/double cream/clotted cream, mushrooms, olives, tea, coffee, water etc are all good... I'm probably forgetting a few but I always refer people to the Nutritional Thingy nowadays so I don't have the routine in typing it all out anymore, haha. Oh, the almond milk might be okay, might not be.... I find that milk replacements are often sweetened, and if they're not, they're about the same amount of carbs as proper milk would have, so a bit of a let-down, that.

    Hope that helped.
    Jo
     
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  12. Andy_J

    Andy_J · Member

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    It did ...

    I admit when I started to read everything and food labels and complex carbs etc its popped my head.

    Today not so good as I admit I could kill for a bowl of cerials right now as that was my supper, and breakfast if not toast. So having cut all that out , fruit etc its amazing how much your body craves them

    Stevia I am trying now, I did try another sugar replacement but it kind of left a horrid taste to me, not hitting it off with almond milk, would love to keep my full fat milk if I can based on how much I have cut out in the past few days doing the counts of everything has shocked me.

    Labeling on food is still driving me nuts, I checked on the low fat foods and sure enough packed with carbs or sugar or both, so weird having to look at full fat yogurts for instance feels odd.

    The amount of fruit juice I could drink in a day was out of control, but finding an alternative to plain water is hard. Been in the herbs today trying different options. Any suggestions would help.

    AJ
     
  13. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Cream, watered down, might be an option. What about some of the different teas to drink? I like a lot of the herbal ones, not so keen on the fruity ones. My tastebuds don’t expect either milk or sugar with those as a bonus. They can be chilled too. Or water with mint, cucumber, berries, lemon, lime in there for flavour. You might be ok with the sugar free squashes but personally I don’t like the artificial sweeteners and my blood glucose reacts to some of them too.

    Don’t forget it’s the “carbohydrates” bit of the label you need to pay attention to not the “of which sugars” bit. The only time it needs amending is if there is a sugar alcohol you are happy using that can be deducted. Many times that is maltitol and I don’t deduct that as it still raises my bgl. Others do ok on it. Be careful of “digestive disruptions “ if you eat a lot of that one though. If it’s Erythritol or xylitol I do deduct those carbs as they don’t effect me.
     
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  14. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    My Dad used to make his own tonic water and soda water using a Soda Syphon dispenser. You added tap water, a couple of drops of quinine or bicarb, and screwed in a Sparklet gas cartridge. a quick shake up, and it turned the water into fizzy, Just did a quick google and it is still available but the company making it is ISI and no longer BOC. Still called Sparklets.

    I remember another company took this concept and 'Got busy with the Fizzy' by marketing their own dispensers and a range of flavourings and colourings to make all sorts of fizzy drinks. Called SodaStream, and I believe it is still available too. Think their additives were syrup based, so will have more sugars and carbs than soda water. But you could squeeze your own lemons and oranges fresh.

    You can of course make your own yoghurts and shakes, or smoothies, just invest in a blender, We get packs of berrries that we keep in the freezer and whizz up with apple juice or cider, and add cream or ice cram as a naughty bit.
     
  15. KateA

    KateA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I find blueberries spike my BS. Always test.
     
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  16. KateA

    KateA Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Andy, I don't want to swamp you with too much info and you have had good advice so far. The low fat regime was a big lie. You want to eat plenty good fats. Olive oil, butter, cream and lard. (I am veggie so don't do the lard).
    As a carnivore, you can eat plenty meat and fish, but beware of added cereals, batters and breadcrumbs. You said you cooked from scratch so that is good, you can control your ingredients. Your favourite word will be 'substitute'.
    You said you will miss your roasties, I use celariac on special occasions, they make the best roasties. I now prefer them to potatoes because they have a lovely nutty flavour.
    I use cauliflower rice at home at it is perfect to soak up my vegetable jalfrezi, again, I prefer it to rice now. If I am at my local Indian restaurant, I ask for a side salad. There is a keto nan bread recipe kicking about, yet to try it.
    I do have grapes, but they are fermented.
    I like the taste of water, but a glass with lemon juice in before a meal helps the digestion.
    I do hope this helps and keep on asking questions. I was where you are six years ago, I remember spending almost every waking hour scanning this website and others. It does get easier.
    There is a sticky somewhere on these forum titled, 'Don't play the blame game', I would recommend that for your reading.
    You are where you are, but you can change your life, take back control.
     
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  17. Gleny

    Gleny · Active Member

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    I have read many posts on this site with interest.some of the info is a little contradictory and confusing.saying that the general thread seems to have a lot of continuity which is reassuring.
     
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  18. IanHendra

    IanHendra · Newbie

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    The best help I can give you is to recommend you read and take note of the advice in The Obesity Code by Dr Jason Fung and Wheat Belly Dr William Davis. You'll get all the answers you need, probably.

    Why that advice? Personal experience. You see, I am in week 100 of applying the information in both books to treat an HbA1c of 57 Type 2 diabetes diagnosis in July 2018. I had read Dr Jason's TOC in 2016 not long after it was published. And did a lot of research into LCHF, keto and intermittent facing. I was "given" metformin and more of the statins I'd been on for about a year. I didn't take the metformin, and my research showed that statins are about the biggest pharmaceutical industry con-trick the world has ever seen, so I stopped them too!

    Ok, HbA1c tests need "at least" 12-week intervals, as you probably know. At week 12 my HbA1c was 43, at week 25 it was 38, and at week 37 it was 35. It's been the same at weeks 48, 66 and 86, so I reckon I've nailed T2D! BTW, my GP was disinterested in this except to consent to my requests for HbA1c and lipids blood tests, and write me funded prescriptions for BG strips for my blood glucometer (BK strips are not funded here in NZ). While he is impressed with my results, it's obvious he still thinks he's doing the right thing by peddling metformin (etc.) and insulin injections. Looks like the old adage that if all you've got is a hammer, all problems look like a nail, so if all you've got is a prescription pad, etc...

    As for the results of the lipid tests, they're even more impressive; for example, my triglycerides to HDL ratio is 0.27. Also, for the first time in my life, my BMI is "healthy", down from "obese" or "morbidly obese" since I was a teenager; I'm 73. As for insulin resistance, according to the calculated method on Dr Georgia Ede's website, I haven't been insulin resistant since week 58.

    And the cherry on top is that much to the relief of "'er indoors", I stopped snoring almost as soon as I started the regime. I hope this helps. Good luck.
     
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    #18 IanHendra, Jun 24, 2020 at 1:01 AM
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  19. JoKalsbeek

    JoKalsbeek I reversed my Type 2 · Expert

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    There's a bunch of flavoured sparkling waters out there, and squash'd be alright, if that's your thing. Dunno brand names as I'm Dutch. You can also just toss some berries, slice of lemon or some mint in for flavour, that wouldn't hurt. Tea'd be fine too, hot or cold. (Iced tea sound alright? With the current weather...).

    I know it's a gear shift to suddenly embrace fats and avoid carbs, and yeah... Your body's demanding them right now because you're cutting back. Probably said it before, but carbs are addictive and you'll need to give your system a little time to adjust. The carb cravings will abate, no worries... It won't stay this way. ;)
     
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  20. Bodewhin

    Bodewhin Type 2 · Member

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    There are some cold brew tea/tea-free infusions at the supermarkets now. I have struggled to find ones that don't use plastic brew bags - I think it was the Twinings ones that were ok but you would need to read the box.
     
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