New SACN Report for Lower Carb diets for T2

Daibell

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This link was posted on another forum:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...er_carbohydrate_diets_for_type_2_diabetes.pdf

It takes 347 pages to say very little. It says on Page 88 that with long term use of lower or higher carb diets there is no difference between them on HBA1C (really!).

In my opinion the whole report has hints of food industry influence as there is great reluctance to suggest a lower-carb diet is the right way forward which goes against the experience of many on this forum. Perhaps we are all wrong and we should follow the 'experts'
 
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NicoleC1971

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This link was posted on another forum:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...er_carbohydrate_diets_for_type_2_diabetes.pdf

It takes 347 pages to say very little. It says on Page 88 that with long term use of lower or higher carb diets there is no difference between them on HBA1C (really!).

In my opinion the whole report has hints of food industry influence as there is great reluctance to suggest a lower-carb diet is the right way forward which goes against the experience of many on this forum. Perhaps we are all wrong and we should follow the 'experts'
I believe they are trying hard to NOT admit the utility of such diets given their food industry bias by polluting the evidence pool with junk food questionnaire type studies or studies where the low carb diets were actually relatively high carb. The justification for this is the alleged quality of the evidence in favour of low carb and the preponderance given to the epidemiology against trials such as Virta Health (not RCT so either disregarded or downgraded as evidence). The effect is that the public think 'A Calorie Is A Calorie' and the same calorie reducing low fat diet works for all people regardless of their metabolic health.
Public Health Consortium have done an analysis of studies too if anyone wants to see a different perspective. They have a bias in favour of non processed food and are a charity:
https://phcuk.org/healthy-eating-guidelines-weight-loss-advice-for-the-uk/
 
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Oldvatr

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This link was posted on another forum:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...er_carbohydrate_diets_for_type_2_diabetes.pdf

It takes 347 pages to say very little. It says on Page 88 that with long term use of lower or higher carb diets there is no difference between them on HBA1C (really!).

In my opinion the whole report has hints of food industry influence as there is great reluctance to suggest a lower-carb diet is the right way forward which goes against the experience of many on this forum. Perhaps we are all wrong and we should follow the 'experts'
I previously posted a list of SACN members in another thread. Many of them worked for food companies like Tesco and M&S and many of them were actively promoting vegan enterprises as consultants and researchers. Some of them are also on the UK government CCC advisory panel on food and obesity. Professor Susan Jebb also appears in many other membership lists too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-committee-on-nutrition#membership
 

StewM

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I previously posted a list of SACN members in another thread. Many of them worked for food companies like Tesco and M&S and many of them were actively promoting vegan enterprises as consultants and researchers. Some of them are also on the UK government CCC advisory panel on food and obesity. Professor Susan Jebb also appears in many other membership lists too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/scientific-advisory-committee-on-nutrition#membership
What relevance do Vegan Enterprises have to anything? Is there some conflict of interest?
 

zand

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What relevance do Vegan Enterprises have to anything? Is there some conflict of interest?
Yes, most of us following a low carb diet eat plenty of meat, eggs, cheese, fish, cream etc as healthy alternatives to carbs.

My body is intolerant to soya
 

StewM

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This is not something I had any awareness of. So are Vegan bodies quite hostile to Low Carb?
 

zand

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This is not something I had any awareness of. So are Vegan bodies quite hostile to Low Carb?
It is possible for individuals to follow a low carb vegan diet. The problems start when Vegan organisations try to influence others on what to eat. There has to be freedom to choose.
 

bulkbiker

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This is not something I had any awareness of. So are Vegan bodies quite hostile to Low Carb?

In the main yes.

All vegan foods, especially the highly processed "fake" replacements, contain carbs to a degree.

There are a few low carb vegans but their diet must be extraordinarily limited.
Avocado, mushrooms and not much else I guess.
 

Oldvatr

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This is not something I had any awareness of. So are Vegan bodies quite hostile to Low Carb?
SACN is the governing body that defines the UK Eatwell national diet, and who are also involved in the upcoming obesity control diet. The NHS is bound to following their edicts, and so any diet that is not Eatwell compatible is dismissed as Fad and unfit, and lacking in something unspecified that poses a health risk to the general populace. Low Carb and Keto fall into that category, as does eating red meat and animal dairy products.

Vegan on the other hand is where Eatwell started, with a nod in those days to the animal farmers. The latest version of Eatwell is almost fully vegetarian/ pescatarian and other animal products are no longer listed. the categories are whole grain, vegetable, and protein. Fat is under vegetables, and milk is now fortified plant-based milk,

SACN has recently approved Leghaeme as a direct one-for-one replacement for animal heme, even though it has a very different vitamin content. It doe not replace B12 and where it is added it is classed as a flavour enhancer, not nutrition. SACN is currently exploring a vegan source for D3 and K2, and when they announce a winner, then Eatwell can go fully vegan. Susan Jebb was a leader in this activity. She is at Oxford Martin, is a member of PHE Member of NICE, SACN Oxford Martin is closely associated with vegan research. Professor Tim Benton, was chair of SACN, and is also involved with Oxford Martin, and is a declared vegan.

This committee has great power to decide what the nation eats. Their Eatwell plan has been moving away from animal products for many years now, and there is no reason why it should stop when it's on a roll. We are already seeing moves to remove meat and dairy from the shops, and so we must expect a meat tax to be imposed. The UK Environment Plan for the CCC road map to 2030 shows an 80% reduction in animal sources in the UK by 2030. It was supposed to reduce meat consumption by some 15-20% a year starting in 2018, but it is missing the target so far. This roadmap was approved by the Boris government and parliament soon after he took up office. It is now embedded in the three acts of parliament he enacted in the first month of his reign. (Climate Change Bill, Agriculture Bill are the two I remember, but there was another one associated with Brexit that set the tariffs for all meat and dairy imports at 46% in the event of No Deal)
 

lucylocket61

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The latest version of Eatwell is almost fully vegetarian/ pescatarian and other animal products are no longer listed. the categories are whole grain, vegetable, and protein. Fat is under vegetables, and milk is now fortified plant-based milk,
do you have a link to this Eatwell version please?
 
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Oldvatr

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do you have a link to this Eatwell version please?

It's been posted several times on the Forum.
https://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliving/healthydiet/eatwell.html

Apparently, the 2020 one did not make the grade and has not been published yet, but it was very similar to the Canadian one. I no longer have an active link to the plate itself, but here is a link to a Canadian commentary on the proposed changes. I have a similar link to the French equivalent, but it is not easy to understand
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can.../+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

I think NICE guidelines for adult diabetics have changed, and no longer references Eatwell itself, but links to an NHS website that does. That is now controlled by PHE.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-eatwell-guide/

Edit to add: Here is the current Canadian one
https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/
It has lost its milk and dairy section which I saw had proprietary products shown. Presumably too obvious a plug. They were sued for showing bias and possible attempts of bribery from the Nut and seed farmers in Canada, so this may be why it is different now. I have a news article describing this in my archive.
 
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Daibell

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I'm reminded of a cartoon that possibly came from this forum a few years back.
Low-carb cartoon.png
 

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lucylocket61

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It's been posted several times on the Forum.
https://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliving/healthydiet/eatwell.html

Apparently, the 2020 one did not make the grade and has not been published yet, but it was very similar to the Canadian one. I no longer have an active link to the plate itself, but here is a link to a Canadian commentary on the proposed changes. I have a similar link to the French equivalent, but it is not easy to understand
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can.../+Media&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links

I think NICE guidelines for adult diabetics have changed, and no longer references Eatwell itself, but links to an NHS website that does. That is now controlled by PHE.

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/the-eatwell-guide/

Edit to add: Here is the current Canadian one
https://food-guide.canada.ca/en/
It has lost its milk and dairy section which I saw had proprietary products shown. Presumably too obvious a plug. They were sued for showing bias and possible attempts of bribery from the Nut and seed farmers in Canada, so this may be why it is different now. I have a news article describing this in my archive.
ermmm, no. It lists dairy cows milk as well as other types of milks, to cover allergies. Meat is mentioned.
milk is now fortified plant-based milk,
Eatwell is almost fully vegetarian/ pescatarian and other animal products are no longer listed
I am directly quoting the post i replied to.

I am all for highlighting food restrictions, but lets not say what isnt there. The Eatwell plate you linked to was done in 2016 and hasnt changed. The extremism you are saying is happening isnt evidenced by your links about the Eatwell plate.

the link to the recent 2019 Eatwell plate includes dairy, cows milk and meat too.
 
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Oldvatr

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ermmm, no. It lists dairy cows milk as well as other types of milks, to cover allergies. Meat is mentioned.

I am directly quoting the post I replied to.

I am all for highlighting food restrictions, but lets not say what isnt there. The Eatwell plate you linked to was done in 2016 and hasnt changed. The extremism you are saying is happening isnt evidenced by your links about the Eatwell plate.

the link to the recent 2019 Eatwell plate includes dairy, cows milk and meat too.
Yes, the version that was reported in the papers was more radical than the present publication. It seems they have back[pedsalled in light of the furore that the Canadian Eatwell received. The version I saw had a load more packaged items not on the plate, but around the periphery. and had dropped the dairy and cheese quadrant out completely Unfortunately, I had to have my computer wiped, and it's now as clean as a whistle. The picture I so carefully saved and the associated press report are missing now. Eatwell should have been revised in 2020, not 2019. I did post it in a thread, but no idea where. Also missing is my SACN members interests data which I bookmarked and included in a spreadsheet that was also wiped.
 

Oldvatr

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https://www.medscape.com/viewarticl...526_MSCPEDIT&uac=294048SJ&impID=3399943&faf=1

I wonder if this is the same. It’s quite refreshing reading, doctors and nurses recommending low CHO for diabetes.
Yes, it seems to be the same going by the dates. I am not surprised at their meagre findings. Most of us here doing Low Carb diets count grams of carbs per meal or per day, not % of energy intake. Typically I tend to use around 5% i.e. 5 g per 100g portion of a labeled product as a rough guide. A gram of carbs is around 4 calories.

They are also banging the Low fat drum whereas those on LCHF tend to use medium or elevated levels of natural fats to provide satiety and protect against muscle scavenging, so no wonder the report says everybody gave up early. I bet they kept the 3 meals a day with snacks regime going too, and they usually advise using nuts to snack on, Duh! They also seem to be advising the standard 5-a-day fruits and veg and starchy grains as in Eatwell.

So their Low Carb diet is probably deeply flawed from the start, and they obviously have no understanding of what is needed and what the science tells us to do. After all SACN is ALWAYS evidence based on sound science, isn't it?

As a low carber of some 5 or nearly 6 years standing, myself, I have tired legs (LOL). And I am still wanting to use the lifestyle it provides.