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Newbie looking for support to follow "Blood Sugar Diet"

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Megan84, Apr 20, 2022.

  1. Megan84

    Megan84 · Member

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    Hello, my partner has been diagnosed with Type 2, (HbA1C 79). I read the book by Michael Mossley "the 8 week blood sugar diet" and in our appointment with the nurse we told her we would love to work with a dietitian that would support us and advice us following the diet and trying to reverse the diabetes. She referred us to a local diabetic info group and to the community dietitian. A month later, going for the 2nd appointment (with a different nurse) we informed her that no one has contacted us. She was alarmed by the "high level of the blood results" and we were advised to go on Metformin while we were waiting to be contacted so we could get down the sugar blood level. We were given appointment for 8weeks later with the idea we would be contacted and we would follow the diet so we could see by then the results. It's over a month from that second appointment and we are not in any better position, we haven't been contacted by the local group or any dietitian. We are full of questions we don't have nobody to ask about and with no support at all, motivation is now running thin. I have been told by someone that has gone to one of these local groups (I think DESMOND, but I cannot be sure) that the importance of diet was hardly touched upon and some other people I heard from have been told that carbs are just fine, when clearly the information on the book I have read is completely the opposite. So I have started to wonder if actually the wait will be worth it or we will find a complete opposite advice. I am starting to think, that, to avoid all sorts of confusions, I would really like to find a local group that follows the research done by Dr. Roy Taylor and Michael Mossley (preferably physical meetings, otherwise online) and I would really love to find a health professional that would support us following that diet, someone we could ask for advise and consultation (probably a dietitian?). My partner has also high blood pressure and cholesterol which, we think, it would go down once we manage to get the blood sugar down.

    Could someone please advise me how I could find a local group and also a dietitian or health professional were we could find the support we need to follow this diet? We are in Lewisham (South East London)
     
  2. finzi1966

    finzi1966 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Megan - I honestly think just by having a look around this forum you will learn loads (look especially at the Testimonial and Success Stories section, the Low Carb diet section and the Type 2 what did you eat today? Section).

    Honest I would steer clear of NHS run groups, simply because they are liable to champion the “EatWell” plate which suggests something like 40% of your intake should be carbs!

    Also your partner should get themselves a blood glucose monitor if they don’t already have one (as a type 2 they!are not likely to get one funded by the NHS). One of our members has a list of good value meters/strips (it’s the testing strips you need to factor for cost really) and I’m sure she will post it as soon as she sees your post. Please don’t skimp on this part, if you possibly can. You really will be working blind without it. It doesn’t have to be for ever, just for a couple of months initially while they sort their diet out and hopefully get numbers lowered.

    Don’t expect miracles from the metformin. It’s not a glucose lowering drug in the way that, say, insulin is. That doesn’t mean don’t take it, it’s got lots of benefits, but what will hopefully reduce their blood sugar significantly is cutting carbs down (and that’s all carbs, not just sugar. Bread, flour, pasta, rice, potatoes).

    Hopefully some other members will be along soon with more advice.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
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  3. Grant_Vicat

    Grant_Vicat Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Megan84 @finzi1966 is absolutely right. I shall tag @JoKalsbeek and @Rachox for the info mentiooned in Finzi's post
     
  4. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    Thanks for the tag @Grant_Vicat ! Hi @Megan84 and welcome to forum, it’s great you are supporting your partner in this.
    I second the purchase of a meter to monitor blood sugar level, which is both informing and encouraging. As others have said the NHS do usually recommend the Eatwell plate which is too high carb for us type 2s. Your Drs and nurses may also try to tell you not to test but it is a brilliant tool for monitoring how you react to different foods.

    So with that in mind here’s some info on UK meters, and to be clear I have no commercial connections with any of the companies mentioned.


    HOME HEALTH have the Gluco Navii, which is a fairly new model and seems to be getting good reviews if you use this link and select the meter plus 5 packs of strips and then add the code dcuk (all lower case) at check-out, you’ll get the meter free. So total cost for meter + 5 x 50 strips will be £31.76.

    https://homehealth-uk.com/all-produ...ose-meter-test-strips-choose-mmol-l-or-mg-dl/

    Links to the strips and the meter for future orders:

    https://homehealth-uk.com/all-produ...ose-meter-test-strips-choose-mmol-l-or-mg-dl/

    There are also discount codes for when you come to buy more strips - "navii5" and "navii10" will give you 20% off purchases of 5 packs of strips and 25% off 10 packs of strips respectively.


    Then they sell the older SD Code Free, details to be found here!

    https://homehealth-uk.com/all-products/codefree-blood-glucose-monitoring-system-mmoll-or-mgdl/

    Discount codes for the Code Free strips

    5 packs 264086

    10 packs 975833


    SPIRIT HEALTHCARE have a meter called the Tee2 + found here:

    https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/co...e2-blood-glucose-meter?variant=19264017268793

    with the strips found here:

    https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/co...py-of-tee2-test-strips?variant=19264017367097

    Some members have got a free Tee2+ by phoning up to order, with a large order of strips they often throw the meter in for free:

    Phone number 0800 8815423


    With more expensive strips is their Caresens Dual, this one has the advantage of glucose and ketone testing in one machine, it’s to be found here:

    https://shop.spirit-health.co.uk/collections/caresens-dual



    If there is a choice of units of measurement then ‘mmol/L’ are the standard units in the UK, ‘mg/dl’ in the US, other countries may vary.


    Don’t forget to check the box if you have pre diabetes or diabetes so you can buy VAT free. (for all meters and strips)
     
  5. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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  6. Grant_Vicat

    Grant_Vicat Don't have diabetes · Well-Known Member

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    • Agree Agree x 4
  7. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Pre covid I was referred to a dietician withing weeks of diagnosis - I'd already switched to low carb and my blood sugar had dropped quickly. In spite of that, she criticised my new diet (supported by the lowcarbprogram) and nagged me to eat bread, root veg, etc. And yes, she forced a copy of the eatwell plate on me.
    I declined a follow up appointment.
    If you are struggling then the lowcarbprogram will provide videos, menus, advice etc, and you can get an NHS voucher code from your diabetic team in most areas.
     
  8. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    Hi. Having carbohydrates I'm afraid isn't 'just fine' when you have diabetes; it's a dated NHS view and not based on good science. You need to keep these down. I'm not a great fan of Prof Taylor or Dr Mosely. Although their diet approach will help I would say it can be sub-optimal as it is based on Calorie intake. Calories are not a food and calorie intake can be any mix of Fats or Carbs. Carbs are a larger cause of BS and weight gain than Fats so it is much better in my opinion to forget Calories and focus on Carb intake.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  9. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I am in Epsom running a support group but that's a bit far for you. Sorry!
    I concur with the suggestions to avoid Desmond/Eatwell plate solutions which don't seem available in any case.
    I think the Mosley Blood Sugar or the 800kcal Keto (his latest) are good options and have a good friend who has found the recipes really good and wasn't hungry after a week or so.
    It will be useful to check and record the following at the beginning, middle and end:
    Hba1c when he starts (he will have been diagnosed so should be on record) and fasting blood sugar.
    As suggested you will find it useful to check blood sugars during the day to see how he responds to different foods. Fasting, 2 hours and 4 hours after meals will be interesting for him to see how he is doing on the 'before' diet versus what happens 'during'.
    Waist circumference (he is trying to shift the fat around his liver and pancreas to help reduce his insulin resistance and hence resolve his diabetes)
    Blood pressure
    Note that if he is taking any blood pressure meds he may need to get some advice on reducing those although hopefully that will be a very good thing over the long term.
    If you're the chef in residence it will be helpful if you can shop and cook for both of you to eat this (you may need to supplement with extra portions if you are not trying to lose weight/lower blood sugar) but may find it also benefits your health. Plus it is hard to cook different meals.
    Planning and clearing out any tempting sugary/starchy options will be useful.

    As other people have said there is a less drastic way to reverse type 2 which is a low carb diet (generally 120g carbs and under) where starchy foods and processed foods in general are reduced.
    If you have a look at this web site and their app it provides great advice, shopping lists etc. and an 8 week course run by a GP surgery in Essex called Freshwell. There is also Aspen Medical (another GP surgery who promote low carb/Real Food.
    https://lowcarbfreshwell.co.uk/
    https://www.aspenmedicalpractice.nh...nation-of-the-low-carb-diet-Daivd-Unwin-1.pdf


    I hope this is useful and I am sorry that the NHS hasn't been able to get you and your husband the support you need but there's a whole bunch of people out there doing it by themselves with a little help from their online friends so why not give it a go!
     
  10. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    There is no great secret to controlling an ordinary simple type 2's blood glucose. No need for books of advice on eating nor harsh measures. Just stop the high carb foods. Use a blood glucose meter which is not too expensive to run and measure before a meal and 2 hours later.
    Take out the starchy and sugary foods bit by bit and see the levels fall.
    I found that once I was seeing 8mmol/l after meals I continued to go lower even though I was eating the same meals. My metabolism was recovering.
    Personally I'd far rather eat a dish of mashed swede with eggs and cheese or vegetables than use mashed potato. I make cauliflower cheese, cauliflower, cream cheese, herbs or spice, grated hard cheese, baked - delicious. I can't understand a longing for pasta.
     
  11. Megan84

    Megan84 · Member

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    Thank you so much to everyone for all the amazing advice and links (I have read loads from yesterday). We are quite overwhelmed with information and in fact my husband finds it hard to keep up with the different clashing information we have been having; from what I research and from "health professionals" advice, that is why I would have liked to have the chance to sit down with a health professional that supports the Blood Sugar Diet so he could ask questions and could be taken by the hand at least at the beginning of the journey. I can see he is really struggling with the shock of the diagnose, the confusion of advice and feeling overwhelmed with emotions and information.
    @TriciaWs what do you mean we can get voucher codes?
    Is there anyway we could be referred (or ask to be referred) to any low carb group or dietitian??
    @NicoleC1971 His Hba1c is 79 we were told it is "very high" so we needed to get the metformin to get it down (I have no clue what is the meaning of "79" whether it is too high or not that high, we just went with "professional" advice), he is not having "yet" any medication for high blood pressure, although she was ready to "prescribe" some as well. I just said that for what I read it seems to be linked so if we could get the Blood sugar down then the Blood pressure and cholesterol would go down. She was reticent so she just went with "ok, take the metformin for now and next appointment we will discuss the medication for blood pressure".
    We got a call today from the surgery, they want to fix the next appointment for the 5th of may, it just made me feel raging and completely frustrated. We haven't managed to get in contact with any of the referrals to get a diet into place and therefore lower the blood sugar level so now I am wondering, "surely they MUST know that, so what is the point of the appointment?"
     
  12. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I don't understand why you are waiting to start to lower blood glucose levels when all that is necessary for an ordinary type two is to stop the carbs.
    There is no magic in it, and no one else knows how much carbohydrate is in your diets, so if you are intent on reducing blood glucose - just do it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  13. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    That is where the glucose meter comes in handy!
    It's not biased to any particular diet, and if you test before first bite and about two hours after you can simply see how the body has dealt with that particular meal.
    A good start is aiming for not more than a 2 mmol/l rise. If it's much more, simply try again the next day with fewer carbs and see if it makes a difference.
     
  14. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @Megan84 . Getting frustrated and angry is something that most of us diabetics in the UK can relate to.
    Most GP practices are set up to prescribe pills rather than to help people with diseases caused by lifestyle (such as many with T2 Diabetes, obesity or high blood pressure). Some don't even know that simple lifestyle changes can reverse these problems.

    There are both Low Carb and Low Calorie 'Diet' forums on this site as well as one for Success Stories and Testimonials. These contain slight variations on the two themes of Carbs and Calories.
    Unfortunately there isn't something which is guaranteed to work for everybody since we all have different genes, micro biome and food culture. For example I can google the GI of bread and see a value, but that is just the GI of that particular bread for those people it was tested on at that time of day. - Yes, a GI of a food is different in different people and even sometimes at different time of day.
    So the best advice is to self-fund a Blood Glucose meter and test the effect of foods for yourself.
     
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  15. Megan84

    Megan84 · Member

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    Here comes one of the first confusion battles we had "8 week blood sugar diet" says "no carbs & 800 Cal x day" so, after making it clear to the nurse that it was our intention to follow that diet (and she was the one actually saying "oh, that is the 800 Cal. diet isn't it?") She said: "it is fine, you can take metformin and do the diet at the same time" we were given 2 tablets of 500mg twice a day. When we picked up the tablets from the pharmacy the next day, we checked the leaflet and 2 things came to our attention. "you cannot have metformin with diets with less than 1000 Cal" and "you are supposed to have CARBOHIDRATES throughout the day to avoid developing ulcer (?)". So we thought, exactly the principles of the diet is exactly what we CAN NOT do. Of course we didn't have at that time or even later anybody to ask, so now what do we do?

    Another thing I found straight away frustrating is that we asked if we could have a follow up with the GP once a month or every few weeks (that is what the book said "Talk to your GP so he can support you and follow with regular checks"). Well, she just said that "no, the normal checks is one after 3 months of the original diagnoses and then every 6 months", (so " that you know, we are not gonna waste time with you" sort of...sounded to me).
    Of course the idea of having an initial scan to see the amount of fat in the liver and pancreas and see the result in a few months time to see how much fat reduction there was, well, that idea, definitely got not a chance to discuss. So although I wanted to do the right thing and have the support of a GP, I couldn't find any encouragment at all.
     
  16. Megan84

    Megan84 · Member

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    Thank you so much, I didn't know there were 2 different Forums, that is really useful. I will be definitely checking them as well as the success stories, I always find them really motivating. If anyone can do it, it is quite likely that "somehow" you also can!

    I will also be checking for the blood glucose meter. He is already hating the idea of pricking his fingers, but I think that it is really needed if you are going to measure any improvement.
     
  17. Outlier

    Outlier · Well-Known Member

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    He might find, as I did, that the reality was really easy compared to how I thought it would be.
     
  18. ajbod

    ajbod · Active Member

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    The trick with finger pricking is DON'T prick on the centre of the finger pad, aim at the side where there are less nerve endings. It amazes me even so called health care professionals fail there.
    buy a lancing device i have 2 an old accu check one, and a truedraw one. with these you can adjust the depth of penetration.
    Along the way you may have the odd failure of insufficient sample size but you will reach the point where you probably won't feel it. i often only know it's successful when a gentle squeeze brings a tiny blood spot.
    the other thing is you don't have to mash it against the finger just gently rest it there and press the trigger.
    my old accu-check device i would liken to a butterflies kiss, literally no pain at all. Also you don't need to change the lancet in the device every time as the instructions tell you, medically that may be sound advice, but you are not sharing the thing with others so the chance of infection is minimal. you only change when it blunts and starts to hurt, you could even carry on with that one but why suffer pain when you can avoid it.
    start reducing carbs straight away and you will see results whether they are amazing or slight it will confirm that you are starting to control things.
    The last bit is don't panic, it took years to reach diabetes, so a few months to get it under some semblance of control will not be a problem. hope things go well, and remember we all here are at some stage through the same journey you are on and the advice given may differ as to what to eat, but you WILL find a bit here works and a bit there works for YOU,
     
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  19. Megan84

    Megan84 · Member

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    I am checking this link to order the meter + strips, do you get with it the lancets, case and lancet device...etc?
    Also the second link for strips AND meter for future orders... I had the idea that once you buy the meter, I only have to replace the strips, How often do you replace the meter?
    I am also thinking do the strips have an expiry date and how much is it usually? I am thinking that 5x50 "might " be too many, but as I am new at this I am not quite sure.
     
  20. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Moderator
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    Hi Megan, you generally get 10 strips and lancets with a meter to get you started. The meter itself will last several years just need to replace the batteries when the warning symbol appears. Spirit Health Care provide batteries free if you add them to an order for strips. The strips do have an expiry date usually well ahead so you’ll have used them by the time they expire. Once opened the pot of strips needs to be used within a set period of time which varies according to brand but is several months up to a year. I think 5 x 50 would be a good start but it depends how often you plan testing. When I was first diagnosed I tested 8 times a day so each pot lasted around 6 days. See how you go and as you learn what foods are ‘safe’ you can change to just testing new foods/meals
     
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