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Newcastle Diet 3 years on

Discussion in 'Low Calorie Diets' started by youngmanfrank, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. youngmanfrank

    youngmanfrank · Well-Known Member

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    I think you should be very careful at your weight when considering the Newcastle Diet.There is a lot of research going on at the moment which has not filtered through to the practice level.I myself volunteered for a research project in which blood was taken and then DNA coded.The research was to try and establish whether there was a genetic basis for type 2 diabetes,so a family history was taken to be used in conjuction with the DNA coding.I found out that they were already finding families with a regular history of developing type 2 in middle age.My first thought was that this was poor nutrition and exercise patterns being passed on down the generations,but apparently not.They had also identified subsets with type 2 eg 25% of patients on a particular steroid treatment went on to develop type 2.

    I knew someone who had gastric band surgery and went from 22 stone to 12 stone,losing her diabetic symptoms along the way.Through her I found out about a long running survey of gastric band patients.Apparently approx 75% lost their diabetic symptoms post surgery,however 25% had not,which sort of brings you back to the genetic research.

    The Newcastle Diet quite often normalises fasting bloods by the end of the first week,so if you do try it I doubt you would need the full 8 weeks.
     
  2. trotskyite

    trotskyite · Well-Known Member

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    Have to comment on this even though it is from a while ago.
    The quote "before weight loss occurs" is incorrectly reported. They do lose weight, just not much. The fasting bloods which are used to assess diabetes reversal are controlled by how much fat is in the liver. There is very little weight of this fat in the liver and it is used quickly when fasting, it will be used within a few days also the weight loss seen by loss of muscle glycogen (in water) will be controlled as they will be rehydrated. This coupled with the fact they will be mainly on a milk only diet for a week before the operation (for the very reason to reduce the size (fat) of the liver to access the stomach) Tells you exactly why bariatric surgery works to reverse diabetes.
     
  3. Arab Horse

    Arab Horse Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I realise I am now under weight but I was about 8 stone 10lbs before I cut the carbs which put me bang in the middle of my range (so my ideal weight although I preferred to be a few pounds lighter but wasn't bothered enough to do anything about it)! I have since posting put on about 4lbs but the idea of doing the ND is to try and reverse my diabetes, not to lose weight. I struggle to get my glucose normal but don't want to go on the downward spiral of more drugs increasing amounts if I can help it.

    I realise I am a very untypical T2 and there is a chance the diet will not work for me but I feel it is worth a try as I have nothing to lose: Well, a few more pounds but I can put those back on gradually.
     
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  4. vit90

    vit90 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Does this infer that the basis of the Newcastle Diet is flawed because the stomach is no bypassed and therefore the small intestine, I guess, is not forced tp function a modified manner?
     
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  5. trotskyite

    trotskyite · Well-Known Member

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    I was saying the hypothesis that bariatric surgery,above the calorie restriction/fat loss, alters the body in some way to reverse type2 is unsupported. The main point that was pushed (by bariatric surgeons(i wonder why ££££?)) was that no weight loss had occurred before fasting bloods came down to normal. However we now know that fasting bloods are controlled, (in t2) by the insulin resistance of the liver and this is caused by the levels of intra-hepatic fat. This fat is burned for energy and disappears within days on a fasting diet which corresponds to normalising fasting blood glucose. This normalisation of fasting blood glucose which is the test they were using to establish reversal of diabetes.(even though it is not it is reversal of hepatic insulin resistance further weight loss is needed to truly reverse t2)

    The Newcastle diet replicated this fasting and looked at what happened in the liver and pancreas and showed exactly what was seen in people who had undergone bariatric surgery but without the actual surgery.

    Another point overlooked was the fact that before surgery ,for up to two weeks, you are put on a milk diet that is to "shrink the liver" ie de-fat it which would have gone most if not all the way to "reversal" before surgery.
    See below:

    http://www.dbh.nhs.uk/Library/Patient_Information_Leaflets/WPR32820 Milk Yoghurt Diet.pdf

    MILK AND YOGHURT PRE-OPERATIVE DIET
    "Before your weight loss surgery, it is essential that you follow a special diet for two weeks. This diet is to help shrink the liver so the surgeon can operate more easily."

    Liver fat can go down substantially even in 2 days before you would notice any weight loss:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090824151304.htm
    "If you lose a small amount of weight, you can markedly reduce the fat content in your liver. In fact, even two days of calorie restriction can cause a large reduction in liver fat and improvement in liver insulin sensitivity."
     
    #45 trotskyite, May 5, 2015 at 3:38 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2015
  6. trotskyite

    trotskyite · Well-Known Member

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    You would do well to try and put on an amount of muscle to increase bmi (depending on age/disabilities etc).Unless you have increased your activity/exercise levels that 4lb weight increase may well be mostly fat. The ND is purely about losing fat to reverse type2 using calorie restriction.
    It really doesn't matter what your BMI is as long as you are type2. BMI is not accurate for assessing levels of fat in an individual. eg an average 60kg 20 year old will have double the muscle and less than half the fat of a 60kg 65year old. Much more accurate is waist measurement . Increased risk of health problems start from 80cm and over in a woman of European extraction. However are lower for Asians.
    See here:
    http://www.myhealthywaist.org/evalu...s/waist-circumference-measurement-guidelines/
     
  7. vit90

    vit90 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    OK thanks for the explanation, though it sort of depresses me a little as I have lost a fair bit of weight (11kg) since diagnosis and I wasn't obese to start with and my fasting BGs are still not consistently low 5s or even 4s. Or am I just being impatient?
     
  8. trotskyite

    trotskyite · Well-Known Member

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    You will get there don't stress it.
    To make you feel better/worse your bmi is still over the normal range for health for a south east asian according to WHO

    "In this latter case, the intermediate cut-off point (23 kg/m2 ) was chosen as the public health action point on the basis of the results of the meta-analysis involving results from nine countries in Asia and other published work"
    http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/bmi_asia_strategies.pdf

    "Research shows that fat around the belly of a south Asian person is more risky than the same amount of fat in a white person, putting them at increased risk of heart disease and diabetes," says Dr Justin Zaman of the South Asian Health Foundation and consultant cardiologist at James Paget University Hospital in Norfolk.

    "This means that south Asian people are more likely to develop diabetes than white people."
    http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/SouthAsianhealth/Pages/Waistmatters.aspx

    "A healthy waist size for south Asian men is 90cm (35in) or less"

    Measure just above the hip bones parallel to the ground when you get to 90cm I would then start checking your glucose tolerance. hba1c, fasting etc
     
  9. trotskyite

    trotskyite · Well-Known Member

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    Actually using a S E Asian bmi calculator you were obese at diagnosis as the cut-off is 25
    http://www.pamf.org/southasian/healthy/screening/bodysize.html

    sorry :)
     
  10. vit90

    vit90 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting but I am a little confused in places. Hopefully my Chinese/Malay genes (and 50% Anglo Saxon) mean I have not yet run out of fat adjustment room although I do look at myself and think I am skinny and I certainly did not look obese 6 months ago. Compared to my Asian relatives I do have a taller build and larger bone structure and my build is more akin to my UK relatives.

    Referring to the comment about fat reduction in the liver taking a fairly short time on a fasting diet - this is what I have been doing on and off for the last 6 months but am I looking for the wrong consequential effect? My best fasting BG was 5 and best several day average about 5.2 . It did bounce back to 6s when I had to stop the diet despite continuing on a low-ish carb diet and continuing added activity (walking 10-15 miles per week more than I would have done before diagnosis).

    Anyway, I have been back on a more strict low energy/carb diet regime for the last 10 days while maintaining daily activity and I am seeing my FBGs steadily reducing again in the last few days (6.1, 5.7, 5.5 in the last three days) and I have lost 4-5 lbs in this period (the digital scales are a bit temperamental!).
     
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