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No guidance

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Josie66, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. togram

    togram Type 2 · Member

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    Hi, I was offered a 3 hour session which was spent telling us to use the 'plate' picture to measure the food groups and eat loads of carbs!! LCHF and I've lost 6st 7lb.
     
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  2. Muddy Cyclist

    Muddy Cyclist Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Josie, I have just been diagnosed Type 2 and although the NHS broke the news to me in a very rushed 10 minute appointment, it did redeem itself after I complained. I was offered a doctors appointment of 20 minutes and a nurse appointment of 30 minutes. Of course the doctor stressed the importance of taking Metformin tablets, which I have not yet done, but did answer my questions and I went with four A4 pages full. Like you I have not been offered a nutrition course and turned to the internet and a niece who in 3 months managed to go from a reading of 52ish to below 35 by diet, my niece also did her own research to achieve this.

    In defence of my Doctor and unlike the experience of far to many on this forum, my doctor did stress low carbs and explained why. I told him I was averaging 75 grams per day he endorsed getting even lower and having more protein.

    One of my concerns is that I Mountain Bike in an aerobic manner for 2 to 3 hours a ride three to four times a week. So far my low carb diet has not effected this, probably burning my fat, I hope, but eventually how will this exercise and my diet work out, I am finding little advice for someone in their 70th year doing such activities with Type 2.

    For those who may wonder why someone doing such activity may have become diabetic, I did enjoy food and wine, obviously far to much. I have lost 12 kilos since the 1st of March but once down to an ideal weight the mysteries of how to maintain this I still have to find out.

    What an adventure, even though it is one I am sure we can all do without.
     
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  3. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    It is a mystery tour adventure. It is a very mysterious condition that doesn't always stick to the rules. Even after over 5 years on this journey, I am still coming across more hidden gems. Stick with this forum, and some of the mysteries will unravel. :)
     
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  4. Muddy Cyclist

    Muddy Cyclist Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bluetit, I notice you are in remission and you suggest you achieved it with diet only. I am kicking against the meds and have not started them, against my Docs advice. I am aiming to get below Diabetes readings by my next blood test in August but do have the occasional nagging doubt and wonder about the meds. Also I'm not very brave and have not started prodding fingers for blood, play guitar, banjo, mandolin and fiddle and worry about sore fingers, actually that's just an excuse to procrastinate.

    Out of interest what level of carbs was/is your daily intake to achieve remission?

    My HbA1c test was 48 second one a week later, I cycled to the doctors was 49. BUT I discovered back in 2014 when I had my 65 year old MOT I also had a reading of 48 and was not told then I was diabetic so probably lived with it 5 years already.
     
  5. AtkinsMo

    AtkinsMo Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    As a keen cyclist, the most useful book for you would be ‘The Art and Science of Low Carb Performance’ by Phinney and Volek. They are two of the people responsible for setting up VIRTA health in America, which aims to help huge numbers of T2 Diabetics to put their diabetes into remission. They are undertaking a clinical trial along with their treatment and so far are achieving excellent results.

    With regard to the ‘sore fingers’ always use the sides of your fingertips, not the pad at the end, and only have your lancet set to the depth of stab that gives you just enough blood. And if you go truly low carb, thinking less than say 40g a day, testing becomes much less necessary as you will not be eating things that spike your BG.
     
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  6. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    There are many members here that have achieved remission without the aid of medication.

    A reading of 48 is very borderline, and with a little effort (and finger pricking) there is no reason why you should not achieve remission by August, but of course that is when the hard work really starts - maintaining it.

    Cycling to your GP for the blood test will not have caused a rise in your HbA1c - this is a test that looks at the last 2 to 3 months and is a sort of average over that period, so what you do prior to the test is irrelevant.

    Personally, I started gradually, reducing my carbs to around 100g a week, and then reducing again over a few months until I was on 30g a week. How many carbs we eat is very individual as we all react differently. Much depends on how insulin resistant we are, other illnesses, the state of our pancreas, and our own unique metabolisms. There is no magic figure, but generally speaking, the lower the better.

    I understand your worries about sore fingers with being a musician - but if you are serious about putting yourself in remission there are 2 choices. You either finger prick or you eliminate all the worst culprit carbs and hope for the best. The worst culprits being bread in all forms, rice, pasta, potatoes, breakfast cereals including porridge, anything at all that contains flour, root vegetables, peas and legumes, and fruit (apart from a very few strawberries or raspberries) in addition to sugar.

    If you finger prick correctly, and rotate the fingers, there is no reason to have sore fingers that would prevent you playing your instruments. Testing will show you instantly what each meal has done to your levels, and used alongside a food diary will enable you to see patterns and eliminate or reduce portion sizes of the carbs. This will tell you whether your metabolism can cope with certain of the culprits. My body can cope with small portions of potatoes and peas. My meter has told me that.
     
  7. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Muddy Cyclist
    Regarding Cycling. I can't remember the Doctor's name, but a video I came across featured a US cardiologist who was a marathon and triathlete who got metabolic Syndrome through 'carb loading' before events. He switched to a Keto (LCHF) diet and after a few (3 I think) months of poorer performance found his performance actually improved when fuelled only by Fats!

    Sorry I have viewed so many videos since I was diagnosed, so can't recall how I found it. Though it may have been through 'the Fat Emperor'

    Another good source for performance athletes is Tim Noakes a retired 'Olympic Sports Nutritionalist' who got T2D, researched New Atkins Diet trying to disprove it, discovered he had been wrong all his professional life, promoted LCHF diet, was prosecuted by his ex friends and colleagues and was finally found not-guilty last year.
     
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  8. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have tried to back trace my viewing of LCHF videos and I think it started with one of Dr Aseem Malhotra who spoke in February (along with Dr Zoe Harcome) in the House of Commons (UK Parliament building).
    Here is the most important dietary slide from Zoe's presentation, she is quoting an official US 'Panel on MacroNutrients':-

    https://gyazo.com/b2bdd97842f2e75d199678d0f103f172

    This is a link to the whole of Zoe's presentation:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQVsHtPUUQI
     
  9. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I have stopped testing now - I have it all sorted (I think) but I am a musician too - on a good day.
    I always used a new lancet every time and only once did I ever feel where I had stabbed was the slightest bit sore - and I think that was a faulty 'pin' - it was gone in an hour or so anyway. Every other time it was impossible to tell which finger I used a minute or so after the test.
     
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  10. PenguinMum

    PenguinMum Type 2 · Expert

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    Hi @Muddy Cyclist someone on here suggested to me in the early days to use the AccuCheck clicker tool instead of the lancets that come in multiples. You buy cartridges containing six lancets which you insert in the pen. You can vary the sharpness by a setting of 1-5 and I reuse each one several times. They are very user friendly and you can be as gentle as you choose.
     
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  11. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    Not really. It’s only those that know little about the realities of diabetes that think this. Active and slim people still get type 2 because there’s a genetic element to it too. Sheer bad luck. Plenty of obese and inactive people don’t get it. Perhaps without your active life style it would have got you years ago and you successfully delayed it much longer than a sedentary life would have?

    The weight is gained because of insulin resistance, the added weight then makes the insulin resistance worse etc etc. Inability to convert and use glucose for energy makes us tired and lethargic making exercise harder for many but not everyone suffers this tiredness or responds to it the same way. Sometimes it depends how long you’ve had it building up silently and undiagnosed. Or maybe how badly you stress a vulnerable system with carbs. Lots of factors beyond what the press report.
     
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  12. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    Yes, we don't get T2 diabetes because we are fat. We get fat because we have diabetes or the pre-runner to diabetes, which is insulin resistance. Insulin is a fat carrying hormone. Too much insulin and the fat gets deposited round the body, and we have too much insulin circulating because we are insulin resistant in the cells. It is something the medics and the press haven't discovered yet - but scientists have. Insulin resistance starts many decades before our glucose levels become significant enough for a diagnosis.
     
  13. Muddy Cyclist

    Muddy Cyclist Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you all for your many suggestions, links, advise and taking the time to reply. I will be considering and following up on all these points. It's good to hear how others cope and tips that will help a newbie like myself.

    I think I will start taking my blood readings it may help with my effort to drop below a reading of 39, I will leave off the meds for now, however just read Metformin helps Fibromyalgia from which I have suffered a good few years, tempting to take them and see. One of the reasons I try to be aerobic on my Mountain Bike is because it really helps my Fibromyalgia so maybe just do more Mountain Biking and dump the meds.

    Going to be a rough and bumpy ride but all the support found here should help smooth it out.
     
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  14. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    Keep posting, asking questions, and let us know how you go on with your testing.
     
  15. Siouxe

    Siouxe · Newbie

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    Hi Josie, I also wasn't given any advice so have had to ring surgery to ask to speak to a diabetic nurse. Waiting for them to get back to me. I see I should be monitoring my own glucose levels but which machine as there's hundreds to choose from - I wonder if anyone knows which is the best & most reasonable to go for?
     
  16. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Expert

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    The advice given by diabetic nurses varies widely from individual to individual. The advice on this forum is given with many person hours days and years of trial error and experience. Many members have done phd levels of personal research and investigations into the latest research and reports out there. Have a really good read around the forums and the parent site as a whole (click HOME” top left of the screen) and you’ll be well informed and able,to go to the appointment with relevant questions and understand the advice given much better. Ask lots of questions here too. No question is too silly if the answer helps you.

    As to meters the expense is in the strips (or cassettes) not the machine itself. You only need one meter and some will even send you a free one if you call there customer service line. The strips can vary from £7 for 50 to about £30. In the early days you’ll need a lot but this will reduce as you get to understand what different foods do to your body.
     
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  17. Sarah69

    Sarah69 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It’s not stupid to forget your diabetic, I’ve been type 2 20+ years and I forget it or I don’t let it consume my daily life thinking about it 24/7 like some do.
     
  18. ngoat

    ngoat Other · Member

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    Hi Josie,
    I was within a whisker of being diagnosed with T2D last Feb. As someone who knows exactly how sure that condition can be, it scared the living daylights out of me. My GP sent me for another blood test, but I went home and googled "Reversing T2D and NAFLD.
    This is what I found and what I started following in the week before my blood test: Dr Mark Hyman's Blood Sugar Solution - 10 Day Detox.
    He explains how it is not just about sugar, but how carbohydrates turn to sugar. He explains how starchy veg like carrots, parsnips and legumes spike your blood sugar.
    When I had my blood test my numbers had gone into prediabetic. My doctor was shocked - so was I! Anyway, as you can imagine, I was determined to keep going. Because I was so keen, she asked if I would attend a course out on by an organisation called Xpert Health. A sixteen week educational programme that explains why low carb eating can successfully treat diabetes. It reinforces everything that I had read in Dr Hyman's book. It was also very good at explaining how our bodies work in a very easy to understand way. I had my next blood test in June last year. Less than 5 months after that initial scare. My numbers were normal. I never had to take any medication.
    Ask your GP of they are offering anything.
    Oh, and eating low carb high fat means you are not hungry. Sugar/glucose turns on your brain's hunger switch. Good fat
    s like extra virgin olive oil, cold pressed canola/rapeseed oil; organic pasture raised butter, organic coconut oils are really beneficial and turn off your hunger switch. Seriously. You don't have to go full keto to get the benefits. My cholesterol is fine.

     
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  19. ngoat

    ngoat Other · Member

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    There are courses, but some services haven't bought in or they are for prediabeties. Ask your GP about it.
     
  20. enb54

    enb54 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My advice is get a decent blood glucose monitor, learn how and when to use it, and then believe it. As many others would say, "eat to the meter"...
     
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