No longer have Type 2 diabetes - Official!

[EllisB]

I have just got home from my last diabetes clinic (for a while)

Blood tests indicate that I am no longer diabetic and the doctor has removed the diabetes code from my medical record.

Cured? Not quite. I have lost nearly 25% body weight and made significant lifestyle changes. Reverse those and it will come back. With age it may also return, but for now I'm free of the condition.

It can be done!

 

[CollieBoy]

What tests have they done re beta cell activity or are you just in reality extremely well controlled?

 

[Karen.G.]

I bet that was the best news you've ever received.

Well done - you are an inspiration and give hope to so many.

 

[Yorksman]

What tests have they done re beta cell activity or are you just in reality extremely well controlled?

I have always found it strange that they diagnose you on the basis of blood sugar levels only but tend to be reluctant to declare you cured on the basis of blood tests only, but won't actually measure your insulin levels either, which is the definitive test. I guess it's seen as just too expensive. A 25% weight loss though is likely to have had a major metabolic impact.

I did extensive testing over the christmas period with christmas cake, christmas pudding, mince pies, thorntons chocolates and some spicy biscuits. Never a reading above 6.5 so, as far as I am concerned, some insulin is getting produced and doing its work. I hasten to add the experiment was controlled and limited in scale and I am now continuing on my earlier regime. There is no point in reversing diabetes so you can go back to the lifestyle which gave you diabetes in the first place.

 

[Yorksman]

Cured? Not quite. I have lost nearly 25% body weight and made significant lifestyle changes. Reverse those and it will come back. With age it may also return, but for now I'm free of the condition.

If you have found a diet which you enjoy, there is no reason why you shouldn't keep it up. It is a relief that the so called inevitable progression of the disease can be avoided but the NHS targets for Type 2 patients were always too high. Why aim for above normal? Why not aim for normal? Keep it up and good luck.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Over the last 5 years I have lost over 27% of my body weight and have never had an HbA1c outside the 5%'s mostly low 5's but I'm not cured, I'm just well controlled.

Sorry to have to say this but if you were a T2 diabetic then you will still be a T2 diabetic, there is no cure so either you were wrongly diagnosed to start with or your doctor is ill informed in saying you are cured.

Take a look at this if you think I am wrong http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/What-is-diabetes/Is-there-a-cure/

 

[Yorksman]

Take a look at this if you think I am wrong http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/What-is-diabetes/Is-there-a-cure/

He does say (2:15) that the 2011 study, (the Newcastle Counterpoint Study) showed that Type 2 diabetes could be put into remission.

The research looks at more than just blood glucose levels. A reduction is quickly achieved but it is the restoration of the insulin function to normal levels that defines the study. This is achieved by weight loss.

However, whilst the improved insulin levels can be measured, we have currently no way of telling what the state of the beta cell mass is in so we don't know how stable it is.

The aim of the Mag Res Centre at Newcastle, as far as I understand it, is to develop techniques which will quantify the amount of beta cell damage at the time of diagnosis. At the moment you are either diabetic or non diabetic based purely on a single symptom, blood glucose levels. The reason, damage to the beta cell mass, is not investigated because of the technical difficulties but soon, it should be possible to quantify it in terms of 20%, 25%, 40%, 50%, 60%. The future prognosis will depend on how much damage has been done by the time of diagnosis.

The other aspect of the research is the state of some beta cells. The current approach, that a beta cell is either dead or active is likely not the whole story and it is probable that some are simply metabolically inhibited before they actually die. The study suggests that some of these beta cells can become active again, as evidenced by the increase in insulin production which correlates with the decrease of pancreatic triaglycerides, ie the islets have become unblocked.

But, at the moment, you never know the state of your beta cell mass.

 

[EllisB]

@Sid Bonkers The technical term is "In Remission". I have been below the diagnostic thresholds for over 12 months.

I was obese when diagnosed that increased my insulin resistance to diabetic levels. All I have done is reduced my weight until I have reached the point that I so not need to watch my carbs any more than the next person to have BG levels at the high end of 'normal'.

If it is good enough for my GP to ask me if I am happy for him to remove the diagnostic code from my medical records and monitor me with an annual Fasting BG and lipids it is good enough for me.

The GP said it was the first time he had seen a patient for whom it was an appropriate action.

 

[izzzi]

This is good news.
ElisB, has proved that for many people with diabetes type 2 who believe they can eventually be told by their Doctor " I have removed the diabetes code from your medical record."
Well done ElisB in everything you have achieved.
This control you have with your body has worked.
Sid Bonkers I my view is correct, however I have been proved wrong many times so I would not like to disagree with your Doctor.
My only concern is ElisB leaving this Forum, as we all may lose some welcome advice.

 

[Unbeliever]

It is fairly obvious that there have always been those who had a pre -disposition towards diabetes. Probably genetic.
T2 was always thought of as a disease of the elderly because it didn't manifest itself until later in life Exceptions to this were diabetes as a reslt of rauma disease drugs stress etc.
Nowadays when we see younger and younger people diagnosed with T2 we can only conclude that this is due to something causing the pancreasto wear out more quckly..Those individuals wih a pre-disposition to diabetes are , of course, more likely to succumb .first.
If we look for reasons t he obvious conclusion is that it is due to lifestyle - diet being a major suspect.
So those with a pre-disposition to the condition will develop it at an earlier age if their diet and acivity levels are wrong. That is why only 20% of obese people ever develop diabetes. It explains why slim people who go on to develop T 2 usually do so when they are olderr and also why living longer is also a factor. Eventually all the organs are liable to decline. .It also explains why T2 is regarded as progresive because up to thr
now it has been acceptedt hat once beta cells start to die the process contiues irreversibly
Now new, and potenially very exciting reearch, as quoted by Yorksman above, suggests the possibility that this might not be the case.
Until some measurement of beta cell damage is introduced then I would agree with Sid about being very wary of a "cure'
It is wonderful news for the poster but maybe it would have been wiser for the GP to have continued with the occasional check.
In the general population there is no way of disinguishing those pre-disposed to diabetes so the wisest course would be for all to look to these matters.ad change behaviou re diet and exercise - which of course, is what the government says they promote but appear to be extremely ineffectual in achieving.

Perhaps they need to accept a more radical view? Perhaps they are on the wrong track or badly advised? We all have our own opinion on this point but those who should be leading the way appear to be at a comlete standstill.

 

[fatbird]

Sid Bonkers said

“Sorry to have to say this but if you were a T2 diabetic then you will still be a T2 diabetic, there is no cure so either you were wrongly diagnosed to start with or your doctor is ill informed in saying you are cured.”

If the member was highly insulin resistant due to excess weight but had suffered minor or no beta cell damage, he is cured. Provided the weight remains at the reduced level. Others who have reversed the symptoms of type two diabetes-by whatever means-but suffered major beta cell destruction are not cured, but they have reversed their symptoms although not a cure.

FB

 

[mo1905]

If the doc says OP is cured and no longer has any signs/symptoms, takes meds or has elevated BG levels then that sounds like a cure to me. Well done. OK, if lifestyle drastically changes for the worse then may it may return but that's an if ! Hopefully this will never happen.


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[EllisB]

I was diagnosed young (42) and early (HbA1c 46 at time of OGTT) So I suspect that most of my T2 was due to insulin resistance. In the early stages of T2, the pancreas is actually pumping out far more insulin than in a non-diabetic. Chances are, there was little damage to the beta cells in my pancreas from excess glucose levels.

Reducing my body mass and a substantial increase in exercise levels (I do British Military Fitness 3 times a week and have started ding mud runs including a 10k trail run on New Years Day) have quite probably reduced my insulin resistance to a level where I am producing sufficient insulin to keep my BG within normal levels in a similar, but less extreme way to the Newcastle Trial subjects.

I can only really know to what extent that insulin resistance has been reduced below the threshold of good BG control by having a C-Peptide test, which is usually used to diagnose Type 1 and is not available to my GP (I did ask).. A C-Peptide level higher than normal, would be indicative of the body over-coming insulin resistance, A normal level would indicate complete reversal.

In the absence of such a measure I will continue to balance my carbs and we agreed on annual fasting glucose and lipid blood tests. If my fasting glucose climbs above 6mmol/l I will have another OGTT and be monitored more closely. I will not be getting a phone call from the surgery to make the appointment like this year, it will be up to me to remember to make an appointment.

I will not be leaving the site, with a possible recurrence later in life I still have an interest in T2 DM and how its management progresses.

 

[CollieBoy]

Looks like the OP, like myself, is dwelling in that misty borderland that abuts diabetes!
Once one steps onto that dread island can you ever leave?
I am personally of the opinion that unless they can show evidence that their pancreas operates at a certain level(what level?) , they are not "cured", only in remission or very well controlled.
I salute the OP for getting that control/remission but I am yet unsure if he is truly "cured"
AS to the OP now having to make his appointments, i would never know the diference as I have ALWAYS had to chase up my surgery for my D check up (exept for once when the practice nurse hijacked my appointment for a UTI.

 

[fatbird]

EllisB said.

" In the early stages of T2, the pancreas is actually pumping out far more insulin than in a non-diabetic."

So few including medical professionals seem to realise this. Hence injecting more insulin can be a disaster. Medication is not the answer for most type two diabetics. Medication should be used last-not first.

FB

 

[Incontrol?]

I have just got home from my last diabetes clinic (for a while)

Blood tests indicate that I am no longer diabetic and the doctor has removed the diabetes code from my medical record.

Cured? Not quite. I have lost nearly 25% body weight and made significant lifestyle changes. Reverse those and it will come back. With age it may also return, but for now I'm free of the condition.

It can be done!

That is great news, well done re the changes you have made for yourself, keep up the good work x

 

[Joe Sweatthang]

Well done in getting a handle on your Type2 and achieving exactly what you were supposed to do.

 

[mpe]

I can only really know to what extent that insulin resistance has been reduced below the threshold of good BG control by having a C-Peptide test, which is usually used to diagnose Type 1 and is not available to my GP (I did ask).. A C-Peptide level higher than normal, would be indicative of the body over-coming insulin resistance, A normal level would indicate complete reversal.

They'd only indicate that with a normal blood glucose level. On it's own a high C-Peptide level would indicate (abnormal) insulin resistance. Which even if your body is able to overcome is a potential problem. Since high levels of insulin tend to encourage both insulin resistance and conversion of glucose to fat.

 

[mpe]

EllisB said.

" In the early stages of T2, the pancreas is actually pumping out far more insulin than in a non-diabetic."

So few including medical professionals seem to realise this. Hence injecting more insulin can be a disaster. Medication is not the answer for most type two diabetics. Medication should be used last-not first.

Probably the same applies to drugs which stimulate insulin production.
If someone is highly insulin resistant often the only cells which are still showing much of a response to insulin are fat and liver cells converting glucose to fat.
With newly diagnosed diabetics virtually always told to eat a diet very high in glucose (possibly higher than whatever they were previously eating).

 

[turvell]

I don't see why you can't reverse it really. If your hba1c is low and stays low why are you still t2 I don't get it either all my blood sugar home tests 6 a day all below the level expected of a non diabetic. Weird


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