Not Diagnosed For 5 Years And Are There Risks To V Low Carbs

[Geoffno6]

Hi, I was diagnosed with T2 five years ago and despite popping into the doctors for an itchy mole and food sticking in my throat they didn’t tell me. With weight loss, neuropathy, drinking loads of water it seemed obvious something was wrong. I booked a check up and a doctor phoned me and said ‘your blood tests in 2013 showed high blood sugar’ but they hadn’t told me. I went in for a blood test, made an appointment for a week later but got impatient for results so I bought a meter. After two days of sensible but normal (high good carb) eating it gave me a reading of 18 mmo/l . I was worried and the doctors agreed to get me in quickly and prescribed me Metformin. The nurse advised eating low gi food. I increased my dose to 1500mg/day but my morning reading stayed stubbornly high in the 13s . Over the past few weeks I’ve got pp readings down to 6.5 2 hours after eating by virtually eliminating carbs to less than 30g per day in a few bits of onion and tomato and tomato in salads and tiny amounts of fruit. My morning reading is normally over 8 and as high as 11 if I’ve had say 70g of carbs the day before. My question is has anyone done this and what are the risks? I’m pretty skinny and my weight is still falling despite eating loads of cream, meat, almonds, etc.

 

[EllieM]

Given your low weight is there a reason why you were diagnosed T2 and not LADA?

Plenty of T2s on here control their blood sugars by going very low carb, but there do seem to be issues with weight maintenance for some light ones. In your position, I would ask your doctor whether there is a chance you're LADA, as if you aren't producing insulin then no amount of low carb will help, you'll need insulin eventually.

Good luck.

 

[EllieM]

I’m pretty skinny and my weight is still falling despite eating loads of cream, meat, almonds, etc.

Make sure you mention the weight issue to the doctor if/when you enquire about LADA.

 

[Guzzler]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Tagging @daisy1 for the info pack offered to all newcomers.

 

[Guzzler]

Just as a general FYI, up to 20% of those diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes are not overweight. Weight gain is a symptom of T2 that not everyone experiences.

It is a sweeping generalisation to say or infer that if you are slim you must be T1 or LADA and if you are overweight then you must be T2.

 

[Smallbrit]

I agree with above advice. When diagnosed, my GP immediately tested for type 1/LADA because I'm not what he'd considered to be a normal T2 candidate -'young' (just shy of 40 at the time, but happy to be called young!), not overweight.

I lost 7 lbs when I started a very low carb (less than 20g a day) way of eating, which was quite panicky for me as I've been the same weight for, well, decades. On advice of this forum, I did change the ratios of what I was eating and my weight stabilised - which is good because I'm not a salad kind of person!

 

[EllieM]

It is a sweeping generalisation to say or infer that if you are slim you must be T1 or LADA and if you are overweight then you must be T2.

Agreed, but the fact that @Geoffno6 has highish blood sugars and is losing weight despite the low carb means that LADA should be ruled out....

 

[Guzzler]

Agreed, but the fact that @Geoffno6 has highish blood sugars and is losing weight despite the low carb means that LADA should be ruled out....

I am not saying that there is no possibility of LADA. I was slim on dx with T2. I am now thin and struggling to regain weight lost, my ideal would be to return to my weight at dx but with the bg numbers that I now see on LCHF. It is a work in progress.

To the OP, I can only tell you about my own experience after a year on LCHF which is that it has done me no harm.

 

[Freema]

Hi, I was diagnosed with T2 five years ago and despite popping into the doctors for an itchy mole and food sticking in my throat they didn’t tell me. With weight loss, neuropathy, drinking loads of water it seemed obvious something was wrong. I booked a check up and a doctor phoned me and said ‘your blood tests in 2013 showed high blood sugar’ but they hadn’t told me. I went in for a blood test, made an appointment for a week later but got impatient for results so I bought a meter. After two days of sensible but normal (high good carb) eating it gave me a reading of 18 mmo/l . I was worried and the doctors agreed to get me in quickly and prescribed me Metformin. The nurse advised eating low gi food. I increased my dose to 1500mg/day but my morning reading stayed stubbornly high in the 13s . Over the past few weeks I’ve got pp readings down to 6.5 2 hours after eating by virtually eliminating carbs to less than 30g per day in a few bits of onion and tomato and tomato in salads and tiny amounts of fruit. My morning reading is normally over 8 and as high as 11 if I’ve had say 70g of carbs the day before. My question is has anyone done this and what are the risks? I’m pretty skinny and my weight is still falling despite eating loads of cream, meat, almonds, etc.

No there is not a dangerous risk , I get a bit nauserous the days I exercise a lot if I dont get some carbs like 30-40 grams

I want to congratulate you with your great effort and results lately it really is the low carbs style that helps the most , metformin only help a tiny bit by the way. In my case it brought my numbers down with an average of 1 mmol daily

But yes of cause you need to be totally sure of your diagnosis , insuline affecting medication can get your number too low so keep an eye on that when on metformin

 

[Mr_Pot]

It is a sweeping generalisation to say or infer that if you are slim you must be T1 or LADA and if you are overweight then you must be T2.

At what figure does a sweeping generalisation become a statistical likelihood?

 

[Guzzler]

At what figure does a sweeping generalisation become a statistical likelihood?

That is not something I have ever thought about. I may have to get back to you on that one. Or not.

 

[daisy1]

@Geoffno6

Hello Geoff and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

 

[Alexandra100]

I’m pretty skinny and my weight is still falling despite eating loads of cream, meat, almonds, etc.

@Geoffno6 You do realise, nuts contain carbs? Even cream contains some. It is only flesh, fowl and oily fats that are sure to contain no carbs whatever. Most fish contain no carbs, but some do have a very little (eg sardines). Even some brands of butter have small amounts of carbs. Labels are required reading.

If it turns out that you are not LADA and low carb eating is causing you to lose weight, I suggest you turn what is normally considered healthy eating on its head and eat larger portions of protein, fattier cuts of meat, chicken legs with the skin rather than breasts, double cream rather than milk, fried eggs rather than boiled, full fat Greek yoghurt, grated full fat Cheddar with everything - you get the idea. This is what I am doing, and I think I am at least not losing weight on <20g carbs daily, but it is a struggle.

 

[Geoffno6]

Thanks so much to everybody for all those replies, it’s really appreciated. Next Monday 30th July, I have my first post diagnosis (not the missing one from 5 years ago) but the one from 25th June meet with the doctor, so will definitely ask for tests for LADA.
I’ll carry on with the really low carbs and exercise. I was amazed yesterday evening after probably no more than 10g of carbs at 3pm I was 11 mmo/l at 5.15 , I ran a mile in 11 mins and at 5.30 I was at 7.5!! I thought maybe it was a bad reading but did the same this morning going from 7.5 2 hours after bacon, egg and a big avocado salad followed by light indoor exercise (a few press ups and twenty times up and down the stairs) then a 1.6 mile run, 25 mins later after the run I’d dropped from 7.5 to 5.6. This evening I repeated it again except the heat beat me into only running 0.75 mile but I went from 9.0 down to 8.1 in 15 minutes.
Thanks again for the feedback

 

[Geoffno6]

Thanks so much to everybody for all those replies, it’s really appreciated. Next Monday 30th July, I have my first post diagnosis (not the missing one from 5 years ago) but the one from 25th June meet with the doctor, so will definitely ask for tests for LADA.
I’ll carry on with the really low carbs and exercise. I was amazed yesterday evening after probably no more than 10g of carbs at 3pm I was 11 mmo/l at 5.15 , I ran a mile in 11 mins and at 5.30 I was at 7.5!! I thought maybe it was a bad reading but did the same this morning going from 7.5 2 hours after bacon, egg and a big avocado salad followed by light indoor exercise (a few press ups and twenty times up and down the stairs) then a 1.6 mile run, 25 mins later after the run I’d dropped from 7.5 to 5.6. This evening I repeated it again except the heat beat me into only running 0.75 mile but I went from 9.0 down to 8.1 in 15 minutes.
Thanks again for the feedback

 

[Geoffno6]

And yes I did know there were small amounts of carbs in nuts, veg, etc but I was hoping say 50g of carbs a day might be ok but as you can see by my numbers are still too high.
It looks like I need to follow Alexandra100’s advice and go the whole under 20g of carbs route. I’m still a bit concerned about not getting enough nutrients though?

 

[Guzzler]

And yes I did know there were small amounts of carbs in nuts, veg, etc but I was hoping say 50g of carbs a day might be ok but as you can see by my numbers are still too high.
It looks like I need to follow Alexandra100’s advice and go the whole under 20g of carbs route. I’m still a bit concerned about not getting enough nutrients though?

There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate. Carbs can come alongside essential proteins and essential fatty acids and minerals but the trick is to find those foods that are very low in carbs but nutrient dense. This isn't as hard as it sounds.

 

[Resurgam]

If you can get hold of a copy of Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution it might help with the choices of foods - the Induction phase is 20 gm of carbs a day, and the edition I have from 2003 has lists of foods, meal plans and recipes, as well as some interesting reading. There is also 'Atkins for life', which could help but was published after his death and it doesn't have the same 'writing from experience' feel to it. The books used to be available for pennies, and there are some downloadable ones around.

 

[Alexandra100]

And yes I did know there were small amounts of carbs in nuts, veg, etc but I was hoping say 50g of carbs a day might be ok but as you can see by my numbers are still too high.
It looks like I need to follow Alexandra100’s advice and go the whole under 20g of carbs route. I’m still a bit concerned about not getting enough nutrients though?

@Geoffno6, I was not advising anything, except to make sure you are well-informed. When I began low carb eating, I thought I was consuming fewer carbs than I actually was, due to my ignorance and maybe wishful thinking. I see this pattern repeating itself very often in the posts of people who are fairly new to all this, and no wonder, diabetes is such a big, complicated subject, and going from a high to a low carb diet is painful.

I too am concerned that the diet I am following now is nowhere near as varied as before, and that while I am getting abundant protein and fat, vitamins, minerals etc may be lacking. IMO it's Hobson's Choice. I am already living with several diabetic complications that developed due to my raised bg levels, although as far as I know 41 is the highest A1c I have had. I also think I now understand why my family drop dead, mostly at a relatively early age, from cardio-vascular problems. They were most probably pre-T2-diabetic at a time when this was not able to be diagnosed. Unfortunately carbs are poison to me and I think it best to prioritise avoiding them and sparing my few remaining beta cells. I eat as many low carb vegetables as I can get away with, take magnesium and B supplements, and hope for the best!

 

[Alexandra100]

Thanks so much to everybody for all those replies, it’s really appreciated. Next Monday 30th July, I have my first post diagnosis (not the missing one from 5 years ago) but the one from 25th June meet with the doctor, so will definitely ask for tests for LADA.
I’ll carry on with the really low carbs and exercise. I was amazed yesterday evening after probably no more than 10g of carbs at 3pm I was 11 mmo/l at 5.15 , I ran a mile in 11 mins and at 5.30 I was at 7.5!! I thought maybe it was a bad reading but did the same this morning going from 7.5 2 hours after bacon, egg and a big avocado salad followed by light indoor exercise (a few press ups and twenty times up and down the stairs) then a 1.6 mile run, 25 mins later after the run I’d dropped from 7.5 to 5.6. This evening I repeated it again except the heat beat me into only running 0.75 mile but I went from 9.0 down to 8.1 in 15 minutes.
Thanks again for the feedback

I wish I could match your running times! When you see a rise immediately after running, have you tried testing again 30 minutes and/or one hour later? If it should turn out that exercise causes a rise in bg but it is transient, it would IMO not be a concern. Another thought: a cool-down walk after your run might just bring a raised bg down? Worth experimenting.