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Oil the enemy?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Jo_the_boat, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I've increrasingly heard and seen mutterings about the adverse effects of vegetable oils.
    I posted an article about chronic diseases recently and the series of articles linked below starts with the premis that problems are increasing.
    What this guy does is look pretty closely at what is driving the problem.
    This is in America, just about the most unhealthy place in the world.
    Here is the first article, there are links to the others at the foot of each one.

    Incidentally, I have also watched two videos recently about vegetable oils.
    One said that our cumulative weight problems are not down to carbs as oils. I realize that diabetics have to control carbs to keep their glucose in check, but one example the guy gave was a south sea tribe whose diet was 90% carbs but they had almost zero heart disease or other chronic illness. The reason he said was that they ate no refined food or vegetable oils.

    I'll link both here if I can. The first one is about 2 hours long! The second a 'lunch hour' watch. But I think they are both worth very much worth a watch.

    ONE
    TWO
     
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  2. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    I have not used refined vegetable oils for cooking for over two yesrs.

    Though I do use coconut oil,cold pressed extra virgin olive oil,cold pressed rape seed and avocado oil on occation.
     
  3. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have only had time to read the main article but I did notice this....
    contributing 699 calories per day to our diets, or about 20% of everything we eat.
    That would seem to imply that an average US diet was about 3,500 calories which is a problem irrespective of where they come from.
     
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  4. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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  5. Bubbleblower

    Bubbleblower LADA · Well-Known Member

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  6. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thousand Island dressing normally has tomato and is thickened with cornflower.
     
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  7. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Are you sure you want to put this stuff in your body>
    Ingredients: tomato puree (water, tomato paste), soybean oil, vinegar, sugar, chopped pickles, water, egg yolks, salt, contains less than 2% of lemon juice concentrate, xanthan gum, lactic acid, dried onions, propylene glycol alginate, spice, mustard flour, natural flavor, oleoresin turmeric, sorbic acid and calcium"

    Typically it is about 15% carbs of which most is sugar.
     
  8. StewM

    StewM Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    A purely anecdotal bit of evidence here but my wife has some (as yet unidentified) stomach issues. We found the episodes have both decreased in frequency and intensity since I stopped using cooking oil to make our meals.
     
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  9. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    We have used processed rapeseed oil for frying for years but it is hard to say how much is actually being consumed, certainly most of it stays in the pan. Mayonnaise is made with rapeseed oil but I probably only eat a tablespoon of mayonnaise a week. We very rarely have any ready meals and I don't eat baked goods. If there is going to be any demonizing of vegetable oils I think it need to take into account which oil and importantly the quantity consumed.
     
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  10. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Sorry mate, but as you probably know, I have to be really careful what I put in my gob.
    I will demonise vegetable oils. My endocrinologist told me in 2015, that cooking with most oils especially cheap and nasty oils, would have an effect on my results. And of course my control. Having banished these oils, not only myself but having passed the information onto family and friends, using saturated fats to cook has seen an overall increase in health, and because, part of the underlying causes of endocrine conditions is inflammation. And cholesterol results do improve when not using vegetable oils.
    I can see the vegan members lining up, ah well! Helmet on!

    In my working life, I used to ensure that all the oils used in a kitchen could never be put down the sink, because it would cause coagulation in the pipes that ran under my workplace. It had to be collected in the same barrels as they arrived and taken away to a special recycling company.
    Didn't have to do that with beef dripping!
     
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  11. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The original articles appear factual. For example I remember seeing a demonstration on TV of aldehydes produced by frying what in the UK are called chips (french fries to Americans) using Coconut Oil and other major Seed Oils. It's a shame the author didn't include grass fed ruminants and their fats in his comparison tables for CO2 emission , nutrient density and land use comparisons.

    While indigenous populations appear to thrive on traditional diets at both extremes of the Carb/Fat spectrum, this may well be due to genetic factors - those who didn't died out.

    There is evidence (from scans on mummy's) that grain based diets contributed to widespread Cardio Vascular disease going back to ancient Egyptian times. It's also interesting that it's now thought that the 'civilisation' of the builders of Stonehenge in the UK had reverted from a primarily grain based diet to a mix of gathering (nuts/berries/tubers) plus farmed animals. Something must have made them think it was better, though it was certainly not as easy to maintain a large population.
     
  12. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that too. :) The proportion stand though I guess?
     
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  13. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but you're one of the informed.
    I am beginning to realize what a problem it really is.
     
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  14. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    Other than Olive oil or occasionally avocado oil, I haven’t used vegetable oils in my home for 20 years. I don’t enjoy the the taste of it.
    I have noticed over the years feeling very unwell and flushed face after eating out in restaurants.
    Canola oil is the choice of most restaurants here. It’s inexpensive and easy to use.
    Only in the past few months have we eaten out a few times and every time I was unwell again.
     
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    #14 Hotpepper20000, Oct 20, 2021 at 7:32 PM
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
  15. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    I have hellemans mayo a couple of times a week, but mainly cold pressed good quality olive oil, and butter.

    I am under the impression that olive oil is vegan?
     
  16. Riva_Roxaban

    Riva_Roxaban Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I have used canola spray, and normal olive oil for cooking for years, but I do use beef dripping for deep frying etc.

    I cannot see what harm it has done me using them, it certainly did not through me over the borderline into T2 territory.

    I know what caused that, just plain old rice, pasta, and bananas.
     
  17. Bubbleblower

    Bubbleblower LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Well, that is recommended by the foodguidelines diabetes 2015 and also by the diabetes team. Fortunately I had a glucosemonitor, so it didn’t take long untill I no longer took these guidelines or that team seriously.

    By now I learned to not only look at the nutrients, but especially at the ingredients so I threw out my yoghurt dressing as well. Looking at the ingredients the biggest difference between the dressing that spiked me and the one that didn’t was the rapeseed oil, they were pretty simular otherwise.

    It turns out the ingredients are very different in the UK version compared to the Dutch version of the same brand (Remia), which for example has no tomato paste or high fructose corn syrup. Marketeers must have found out in the UK they like the dressings even sweeter.
     
  18. KennyA

    KennyA Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I think that "olive oil" is just that - oil pressed out of olives, nothing added. I use this.

    There's also non-cold pressed, where hot water is used to boil out oil from the olive pulp. And there are abominations where a little olive oil is bulked out with all sorts of ****.
     
  19. EllieM

    EllieM Type 1 · Moderator
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    I admit to being lazy and using bought mayonaise, but the homemade is just olive oil, egg yolks, mustard, lemon juice/vinegar and flavourings of your choice (eg garlic,yum).. Easy if you have electric beaters, a little work if you don't.
     
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  20. LaoDan

    LaoDan Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I personally don’t believe all seed oils are bad.
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34417277/

    I think it’s more of an issue of over consuming high carb + high fat at the same time. I also don’t have an issue with palm or coconut oils.
     
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