Outing 'False Claims' Diabetes Companies

Administrator · Oct 24, 2006

An answer to many diabetics questions comes with the following news article:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2006/Oct ... betes.html

I propose we use this thread to name and shame those companies that may be misleading diabetics with their advertising.

Anyone wanna lead here?

carefix · Jan 17, 2007

I propose we use this thread to name and shame those companies that may be misleading diabetics with their advertising.

Anyone wanna lead here?

OK. I name Bayer HealthCare who recommend the consumption of vegetable oils such as sunflower oil in their leaflet advising on diet for people suffering from Diabetes and Heart Disease. While there is nothing wrong with these oils unless they are hydrogenated I have been unable to find any of their recommended oils in the UK which are not hydrogenated. If you follow the advice of Bayer HealthCare without finding trans fat free oils your diabetes and heart disease will get worse and they will get richer selling you their diabetic and heart disease "Care" products.

For those who do not yet know Type 2 diabetes is a man made disease caused by synthetic non natural trans-fats produced during the hydrogenation of vegetable oils. Diabetes II was discovered in 1933 just 22 years after the commercial introduction of hydrogenation. Since then it has made the drugs companies and medical profession very rich. It can be reversed by removing trans fats from the diet and replacing them by natural cis fats. Anything else is a scam.

STOP THE GENOCIDE

John

Administrator · Jan 17, 2007

Ok John, it would be good to hear other opinions of this? Would you like this view published and do you have medical evidence to support it?

Meanwhile, an update:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2007/Jan ... cures.html

Sarcasmo · Jan 23, 2007

i know very little about drug companys, but i think that any company trying to cash in on other peoples misfortune is a disgrace,they shouldn't make potentialy false claims to get to the money in us diabetics pockets.

carefix · Jan 29, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Ok John, it would be good to hear other opinions of this? Would you like this view published and do you have medical evidence to support it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Ok John, it would be good to hear other opinions of this? Would you like this view published and do you have medical evidence to support it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dear Administrator,

As regards the dietary advice given out by Bayer its not a matter of opinion that they are advising people to consume trans fats because it is in effect written down in their leaflets. They advise people to consume the oils which in practice contain very high concentrations of trans fats and in which the essential oils have been destroyed during the hydrogenation process. Their legal "get outs" are:

1) They warn that trans fats are bad for diabetics.
2) Its not their job to let people know that the oils they are consuming are hydrogenated and cause diabetes, heart disease, Alzheimers, cancer etc. That is the government's job.

I have many domestic problems at the moment which are preventing me from finishing off the soap box stuff I have been writing. I hope to present a series of links which people can follow and which will justify my "opinion".

Perhaps you or others could get a few diabetic dietary advice leaflets and study the advice given on oil consumption? The two I read recently recommended rapeseed and sunflower oil. Both these oils are about 45% synthetic toxic trans fats (when hydrogenated). You can check this out by putting words like "sunflower oil" and "hydrogenated" into your favourite search engine. Anything in a clear plastic/glass bottle is hydrogenated otherwise sunlight would make it go rancid. After digging around for a while you will realise what the diabetes industry is up to: Recommending people with diabetes to eat trans fats. After checking the truth of what I say please report back!

There is nothing to stop people putting words like "diabetes" and "trans fats" into their search engines either. I'll sort out some good links later.

Recently the Scotsman reported that the Food Standards Agency was to advise the government to outlaw trans fats as the food industry has failed to voluntarily remove them from food. This January several supermarkets were supposed to have removed them from their own brand products. In the main this has not happened and the genocide continues.

John

carefix · Jan 29, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Ok John, it would be good to hear other opinions of this? Would you like this view published and do you have medical evidence to support it?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dear Administrator,

Just four brief links, a fuller list later. Note that the last two contain links to scientific papers on trans fats and diabetes. The truth is out there.

http://www.healingmatters.com/index.htm
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/D ... ption.html
http://www.tfx.org.uk/key7.html
http://www.tfx.org.uk/key1.html

John

carefix · Jan 29, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Ok John, it would be good to hear other opinions of this? Would you like this view published and do you have medical evidence to support it?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dear Administrator,

What do you mean by "published". Also when you say ' "medical evidence" to support "it" ' what is the "it" and what constitutes "medical evidence". I'm being "to the point" rather than curt.

regards

John

carefix · Jan 31, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Ok John, it would be good to hear other opinions of this? Would you like this view published and do you have medical evidence to support it?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dear Administrator,

I do hope you and perhaps others at Diabetes.co.uk have found time to read and digest what I and others have been saying. I hope you have found the time to scan the research papers also. This leads me to the question:

"Would Diabetes UK be prepared to assist in an on-line trial in which site contributors remove trans fats from their diets and take cis fats replacements?"

Such a trial is not a medical trial as such, simply a dietary change in line with FDA recommendations and supported indirectly by the British Government in its intention of removing trans fats from the food supply. Even Bayer PharmaCare say that trans fats are bad and their leaflets are supplied by diabetic consultants so this in effect constitutes best medical advice in this country.

The trial I propose would involve volunteers replacing trans fats as suggested and notifying their diabetic care team that they are doing this. They would then report back to this site on a fortnightly basis with their results which would include:

Blood Pressure
Blood Glucose Averages
HbA1c (when available)
Weight
subjective reports on nerve damage, post prandial tingles and state of mind (wellbeing).

The only danger in this dietary change I have found is that blood pressure can collapse from dangerous to normal levels is a matter of weeks. If treated the subject can find himself with very low blood pressure and may need to reduce his or her medication in consultation with his GP. Regular blood pressure monitoring is therefore important.

If anyone on this site would like to take part, please let us know!

Dr. John

Administrator · Jan 31, 2007

Hi John,

Let us give this some thought and we'll get back to you.

Regards,

Diabetes.co.uk admin team

Judith138 · Feb 1, 2007

I want to 'out' Diamoxal and the Diabetes.co.uk website for carrying links to the Diamoxal site

Administrator · Feb 1, 2007

Thanks Judith, for outing us. That is called Google ads, and it is one of the only reasons we can run (and constantly work to provide a good service for diabetics.) If you feel strongly about, start another thread.

Admin

carefix · Feb 5, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Hi John,

Let us give this some thought and we'll get back to you.

Regards,

Diabetes.co.uk admin team

Dear Administrator,

Of course you do realise that I am trying to put you all of a job? In assisting in such a trial diabetes.co.uk runs the risk of alienating their advertisers and losing revenue. If you end up curing people you destroy their customer base.

From the reader's point of view if what I and others are saying is true then diabetes 2 can be erradicated within a couple of years, even existing cases can be cured. In fact if trans fats were banned in this country demand on the NHS would halve within ten years as they cause many of the chronic long term diseases that demand long term expensive care, treatment and medication.

We do have one contributor to this site (Karen, I think it was) who on the old forum told of her treatment for type 2 diabetes which resulted in an effective cure from being on insulin. The Austrian clinic which treated her used the method I and other describe. Its all in line with best medical advice.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

carefix · Feb 21, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Hi John,

Let us give this some thought and we'll get back to you.

Regards,

Diabetes.co.uk admin team
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dear Administrator,

Are you and the rest of the team able to reply in the near future? I have to say I am pleased that you at least have been willing to take me and others seriously (and of course the published research which backs up what we are saying). I am also sufficiently cynical enough to suspect there will be factions at Diabetes UK who are more concerned with their careers than the welfare of their clients. If I am right on this point they are no worse than diabetic consultants and the entire diabetes industry but it doesn't hold out much hope for the human race.

John

pauls · Feb 28, 2007

On the subject of Outing things, Diamaxol has reared it's ugly head again. Has anyone tested their claims in the UK?

There's now a site with a UK-based phone number flogging this stuff.
http://www.nutracura.co.uk/products/diamaxol.php

They seem to be based in Halifax W.Yorkshire.

I made an WHOIS query and got a reply back which has these worrying details for the registrant of the web address:
<hr noshade size="1">
Registrant's address:
The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their address omitted from the WHOIS service.

<hr noshade size="1">

I believe that if they're listed as a "non-trading individual" it normally means they are a private individual.

PaulS
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!

mike150160 · Apr 12, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by administrator
 Ok John, it would be good to hear other opinions of this? Would you like this view published and do you have medical evidence to support it?

Meanwhile, an update:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2007/Jan ... cures.html

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've only done a cursory scan of the litrature but I've not seen anything peer-reviewed that supports trans fats having a specific risk for type 2. this prospective study:
Diabetes Care 25:417-424, 2002 Dietary Fat and Meat Intake in Relation to Risk of Type 2 Diabetes in Men Rob M. van Dam, MSC, Walter C. Willett, MD, Eric B. Rimm, SCD Meir J. Stampfer, MD and Frank B. Hu, MD 

Suggests that total fat intake is associated but it correaltes better with fat intake plus BMI with no special causitive role for trans fats

Administrator · Apr 13, 2007

What do you mean by "published". Also when you say ' "medical evidence" to support "it" ' what is the "it" and what constitutes "medical evidence". I'm being "to the point" rather than curt.

Dear John,

I'm just linking this thread into our newsletter, as at the very least I think it should be read by as many diabetics as possible. When it comes to our jobs and careers, we'll see about that. Diabetes.co.uk is currently not supported by any advertisers who could have a cause of complaint.

I need time to do a proper review of the links you've kindly posted above. By 'it' I mean a concise, intelligible precis of your theory. By 'published', I mean put onto the Diabetes.co.uk website with the aim of assessing whether or not a study is feasible. The actual logistics of us starting a trial of this nature may be impossible.

What do you propose?
How would you like this presented?

I am deadly serious, and if I think this is genuinely true (the eskimo story pushed me in that direction, as do Torres Strait Islanders, Aboriginal Australians, Native American Indians, and many other minority groups who never had diabetes in the past) I'd like to push it into the mainstream.

Look forward to response,

Admin

Administrator · Apr 13, 2007

Diamaxol also seem to be here:

http://www.genuinehealth.co.uk/id9.html

I am amazed that there is not a government body who instantly clamps this kind of thing down...

there should be...

What can we do about it?

Admin

carefix · May 12, 2007

Dear Administrator,

As I mentioned in another thread I have been away so I have not been able to answer. It is pleasing to me that Diabetes UK staff are keen on seeing the end of this disease.

My role in all this stemmed from my personal realisation that I was being mislead if not downright lied to by members of my diabetic care team. I suspect most of the individuals concerned were innocent themselves and were merely regurgitating their training. I resolved to look into the causes of type two and its epidemiology. Much of what I discovered I found very quickly on the internet. I was almost instantly convinced because it explained everything that the doctors would not or could not. It provided a model of diabetes as a metabolic rather than an anabolic disorder and I knew that even some orthodox medical practitioners were trying to change the name of type 2 to “metabolic disorder”. I also knew that some diabetes clinics were called “metabolic disorder” clinics, or run by “metabolic disorder directorates”. Strange then that the explanation of when diabetes “happens” is always explained to the sufferer as though it results from some insulin deficiency, stranger still that a metabolic disorder should be treated as though it were an anabolic disorder, like type 1 diabetes. I then looked at treatment policy as practiced in the UK and compared it with the metabolic disorder model. In every way the treatment of type 2 diabetes will make the condition worse if the metabolic disorder model is correct.

I realised that something was very seriously wrong. I was aghast when I realised every sufferer of type two diabetes in the country was being advised to consume oils laden with trans fats using leaflets like the ones supplied by Bayer Pharmacare. There are some very nasty deceptions worded into their leaflets which I hope to *******yse at some point. This advice is wrong and harmful even if the orthodox model should be correct and manslaughter should the metabolic disorder model be correct.

My intention then became to bring this information to the notice of those people who need to know, the sufferers of type 2 diabetes. I have been perhaps rather blunt and abrasive at times. I may have upset some people, I’m sure I probably have, but I knew if I could get enough thoughtful and or open minded people to the point their suspicions were aroused a few of them might follow my advice and report back.

Again I repeat that I am not the originator of the “treatment” which is merely a shift back to a pre-hydrogenation type diet rich in cis oils and with the synthetic trans fats of partially hydrogenated oils removed. I have done a little useful *******ysis of orthodox treatment policy and shown how this will make worse the condition should the metabolic disorder model be correct. I hope this has been useful in convincing a sufficient number of people it might just be worth trying an alternative which bizarrely is what is being aimed at by the food standards agency and is recommended by the FDA in their statement about trans-fat consumption (i.e. there is no safe level).

As to what I propose:

We need a group of volunteers to start this treatment and report back on a regular basis their results. To keep it simple and inexpensive I suggest the following:

1) A separate DUK thread in which results can be posted as and when and which can also be a forum for discussion so non volunteers can see instantly how it is going.
2) Volunteers feed back their numbers via email to DUK so they can be collated and entered into a spreadsheet. This can be *******ysed and graphs drawn and results updated weekly on a downloadable spreadsheet.

I suggest perhaps thirty volunteers. They can start at any time. We need a few initial facts from them (e.g. years since diagnosis, medication, age, ***, etc.) and then request a weekly report on a few variables I listed in an earlier posting.

If this general method seems OK to DUK then I will refine the details and submit them for your consideration. If this works we don’t need a massive medical trial showing a 0.3% improvement (say) after five years (say). We should see most volunteers 100% cured within a year. That is all we need to do apart from having a big party, but that comes later.

John

marion · Jun 18, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pauls
 On the subject of Outing things, Diamaxol has reared it's ugly head again. Has anyone tested their claims in the UK?

There's now a site with a UK-based phone number flogging this stuff.
http://www.nutracura.co.uk/products/diamaxol.php

They seem to be based in Halifax W.Yorkshire.

I made an WHOIS query and got a reply back which has these worrying details for the registrant of the web address:
<hr noshade size="1">
Registrant's address:
The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their address omitted from the WHOIS service.

<hr noshade size="1">

I believe that if they're listed as a "non-trading individual" it normally means they are a private individual.

PaulS
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

marion · Jun 18, 2007

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pauls
 On the subject of Outing things, Diamaxol has reared it's ugly head again. Has anyone tested their claims in the UK?

There's now a site with a UK-based phone number flogging this stuff.
http://www.nutracura.co.uk/products/diamaxol.php

They seem to be based in Halifax W.Yorkshire.

I made an WHOIS query and got a reply back which has these worrying details for the registrant of the web address:
<hr noshade size="1">
Registrant's address:
The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their address omitted from the WHOIS service.

<hr noshade size="1">

I believe that if they're listed as a "non-trading individual" it normally means they are a private individual.

PaulS
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

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