Please help - sign my petition to Scottish Parliament for CGM sensors

Stuart K

Member
Messages
16
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Can I please ask if you would take a minute or two to sign this petition. I have just started a petition to have CGM sensors made available in Scotland. My partner (Type 1) and I (Type 2) already signed a similar petition but we realised that one would go to Westminster and apply to England & Wales. I then decided to petition up here and my petition will be presented to Holyrood in just over 4 weeks. Please, please take a moment to sign this. There is a similar petition circulating south of the border (which my partner and I signed) but we need to urge the Scottish Parliament to act for those of us in the north. Did I say please?
If you can sign it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

http://www.parliament.scot/gettinginvolved/petitions/diabetes
 

Deespee23

Well-Known Member
Messages
280
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Is this for Scots only? I would be happy to sign but live South of the Border so not sure if I can! Good luck anyway!
 

Stuart K

Member
Messages
16
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Is this for Scots only? I would be happy to sign but live South of the Border so not sure if I can! Good luck anyway!
Is this for Scots only? I would be happy to sign but live South of the Border so not sure if I can! Good luck anyway!
It's to make the sensors available on prescription in Scotland but anyone can sign. I've had a few from England a couple from N Ireland to date. There is also a petition going on covering England & Wales (that's what kick started this petition). Thank you
 

Stuart K

Member
Messages
16
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
It's early days yet but I'm only 4 short of 100. I'm determined to have this well into the thousands before it's presented to Holyrood. Firstly, can I ask you all to share the petition link on your social media and encourage others to sign and share? Many of them may not have diabetes but most of them will know of someone who has. Second, I have the names of the people who signed but don't know where they saw the link. Some I know from Facebook, some I know from Freestyle Libre FB page and a few on here. I try to post a thank you to each individual who signs (whether I'll manage that when the flood gates open (he says with confidence) is a different matter) however I can only assume a lot of signatures have come from the people here because the number has doubled since I posted it yesterday. If you signed and are reading this, thank you sincerely, both my Type 1 partner, Pauline and myself really appreciate it.
 
S

Shar67

Guest
I've signed, I actually said on a thread on here that Scotland had a better chance of getting CGM.
Even if you are in England or Wales please sign, it could open the door for it to happen south of the border as well
 

TorqPenderloin

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,599
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
A bit of constructive criticism as a CGM wearer and someone who would like to see greater availability of CGM access:

I think you did a good job explaining how this has helped improve your partner's blood glucose levels and I liked how you quantified that hypos are costing the NHS £13 million (I think that's the static). However, I would take it a bit further:

-How much better is your partners a1c before and after the CGM? Mine went from 13.2 (diagnosis) down to 5.4 in six months.
-How much additional money will this save the healthcare system? Emergency visits (I'm in the USA and we call them something different) cost billions each year.
-How is this saving on prescription costs? In my case, my Dexcom has saved my insurance company over $5000/year (fewer test strips, lancets, doctor visits, insulin, etc)
-How does this increase transparency and cut down the time of Doctor/patient appointments? My doctor downloads my Dexcom date, reviews it, and gives me feedback which easily saves 15-20 minutes on every visit.
-I'd also consider spell checking the content of the petition. For example, you misspelled "Sensor" as "Senor" which may mean your petition is taken less seriously.

Bottom line: healthcare costs are burdening the entire world and I believe there is a clear path to getting CGM technology covered, but only after people can quantify the potential cost savings and benefits CGMs offer.
 

Stuart K

Member
Messages
16
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I've signed, I actually said on a thread on here that Scotland had a better chance of getting CGM.
Even if you are in England or Wales please sign, it could open the door for it to happen south of the border as well

Thank you for signing. I agree that we should be pushing for this UK wide. My partner and I have both signed the petition for south of the border which I've included below. We are getting quite a few non Scots (or non Scottish based) signatures and it's all much appreciated.

England & Wales https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/151064
 

tim2000s

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Retired Moderator
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8,934
Type of diabetes
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-How much better is your partners a1c before and after the CGM? Mine went from 13.2 (diagnosis) down to 5.4 in six months.
-How much additional money will this save the healthcare system? Emergency visits (I'm in the USA and we call them something different) cost billions each year.
-How is this saving on prescription costs? In my case, my Dexcom has saved my insurance company over $5000/year (fewer test strips, lancets, doctor visits, insulin, etc)
-How does this increase transparency and cut down the time of Doctor/patient appointments? My doctor downloads my Dexcom date, reviews it, and gives me feedback which easily saves 15-20 minutes on every visit.
Some interesting questions. I answered the ones about healthcare savings here: http://www.diabettech.com/cgm/the-cost-of-diabetic-emergency-care-is-it-really-so-expensive-gbdoc/

There was also an interesting presentation on the prevalence of funded CGM at EASD2016 last week. The US has the highest prevalence because the insurance companies can justify it. US costs are 10x the UKs for a hospital stay or A&E visit. That alone means that if costs in the UK were comparable to those in the US, it would be an easy call on the NHS.

In terms of prescription costs, in the UK CGM increases them, but then our over the counter costs for medication and some monitoring items are a lot lower than the US (in some cases a 10x multiple), again!

In terms of transparency, I think it makes a huge difference, and for some that will make a difference, for others not. Difficult to tell what the answer will be with that one.

The bottom line is that if you were to give a sensor augmented pump and consumables to all T1Ds in the UK, on current prices it would cost about £1.1bn a year. If you were to give just CGM, it would be about £550mn. If you were to reduce hypo hospitalisation and ambulance call outs to zero, you'd save about £55mn.

The question then becomes where should you take the money from to fund this? A question that has been asked multiple times by Partha Kar.

I'd like to see CGM on the NHS. I think it would be a great step forward, but I think we need to demand change to what the NHS funds as the first port of call!
 

Stuart K

Member
Messages
16
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
A bit of constructive criticism as a CGM wearer and someone who would like to see greater availability of CGM access:

I think you did a good job explaining how this has helped improve your partner's blood glucose levels and I liked how you quantified that hypos are costing the NHS £13 million (I think that's the static). However, I would take it a bit further:

-How much better is your partners a1c before and after the CGM? Mine went from 13.2 (diagnosis) down to 5.4 in six months.
-How much additional money will this save the healthcare system? Emergency visits (I'm in the USA and we call them something different) cost billions each year.
-How is this saving on prescription costs? In my case, my Dexcom has saved my insurance company over $5000/year (fewer test strips, lancets, doctor visits, insulin, etc)
-How does this increase transparency and cut down the time of Doctor/patient appointments? My doctor downloads my Dexcom date, reviews it, and gives me feedback which easily saves 15-20 minutes on every visit.
-I'd also consider spell checking the content of the petition. For example, you misspelled "Sensor" as "Senor" which may mean your petition is taken less seriously.

Bottom line: healthcare costs are burdening the entire world and I believe there is a clear path to getting CGM technology covered, but only after people can quantify the potential cost savings and benefits CGMs offer.

Thank you for your comments. Firstly, I noticed the typo on the petition last week and I tried to edit it immediately. Unfortunately it isn't possible to do so.

Diabetes is costing the Health Service in Scotland around £1billion per annum, almost 10% of its total spend. The majority of the spend is not the treatment itself (insulin, metformin, etc) but for the treatment of complications, such as organ failure, heart attack and stroke. I think this is put into perspective when, as mentioned originally, the cost of treating hypos on the NHS UK wide is £13m (I can only estimate the cost in Scotland to be around 1/5 of this figure). It's surely within this area of complications where the greatest benefit to Health Service funds would be, if people have more control of their blood glucose levels. Of course, it would follow that if people are successful in improving their health through improved monitoring, then the need for medication (insulin, metformin, statins etc) reduces, thereby further reducing NHS costs.

There is also the other costs to the Government services, namely the social services costs of diabetes. The costs of nursing services, residential services and home help would, in the longer term, reduce. At present, the social services cost is around £19m annually in Scotland. There is also the issue of unemployment. absence from work and early retirement due to diabetes.

My partner was advised her a1c was 'off the scale' three months ago. She is now awaiting results from her recent test but I would say her CGM readings have averaged out around 8 compared to the 20+ readings in the first few weeks of using it. It has given her the kick she needed. She was diagnosed over 40 years ago and recently (the last 12 months or so) she's been down, even to the point she stopped finger pricking. Since getting the meter, she's been scanning frequently and her focus is back. She's carb counting more than I've ever known her to previously. For me, that more than justifies us spending £100 per month on sensors.
 

tim2000s

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I think this is put into perspective when, as mentioned originally, the cost of treating hypos on the NHS UK wide is £13m
It's a great deal more - the data I quoted comes from here: http://www.diabetologists-abcd.org.uk/JBDS/JBDS_IP_Admissions_Avoidance_Diabetes.pdf and gives you all the data you need to arrive at about £55mn for the UK, not £13mn.

As I've said on here before, don't try and amortise the cost of complications into the budget for paying for something there is currently no money for. It doesn't work and NHS budgets don't work like that. Yes, we spend billions a year on diabetes, of which, on T1 is about £1bn. The majority of the complications the NHS treats are in the majority of diabetic patients the NHS treats, basically T2s. So however you look at the numbers, using the cash value of reducing complications in T1 CGM doesn't generate enough cash to make it work in the NICE QALY calculation. I really hope that the NHS sees the value in using tools like the Libre, but there isn't sufficient evidence for it, given the approach they use, to currently go ahead. That's what Abbott has been working on with the NHSBSA. We are unlikely to see CGM on the NHS because at this time, Abbott's Flash monitoring (Libre) is the only game working with the BSA.

I'd rather see us have a much bigger conversation about NHS funding and what's important. What we need to address is how the NHS deals with modern treatment in a system built around the 1940s. This means changing the way funding works, either with what is funded or in how much of our tax goes towards it. That's the real issue.
 

Stuart K

Member
Messages
16
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Fair point Tim, the £13m was the figure used by the English MP who started the petition south of the border and if an MP feels it's worth the effort then I'm certainly going to try up here. If you feel that changing the way funding works then why don't you create a petition yourself in an effort to improve the use of our taxes?
 

tim2000s

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@Stuart K because that's not going to make any difference. I prefer to lobby my MP and the Health Minister directly and I encourage everyone else to do the same. There is more power in that!