Police and hypo and dvla

donnellysdogs

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Hi everyone

Earlier today, I drove on to a grass verge and stopped my car just before a wire and post. Apparently according to the off duty fireman behind me I had been driving erratically. The off duty fireman stopped his car and came over to me in mine. He called an ambulance.
The paramedic came. I was still conscious, but had had a hypo.

The paramedic dealt with me and gave me two glocose gels, by which time the police arrived.

They told me they would inform the dvla, and I was not allowed to drive my car home. They would take me and my dogs home, and I could leave the car parked up where it was for somebody later to collect it.

I am now at home, and I haven't a clue whether I can still drive or not, or whether the police informing the dvla has stopped me from being allowed to drive immediately.

Has anybody else ever been in this position?

Do I notify the dvla that i had a hypo whilst driving, and that I had pulled over to the side of the road on a grass verge, but that somebody else had to help me?

Can I continue to drive, as I am not sure?

Will I lose my licence?

I have been diabetic 25 years type 1 and never had an episode like today ever, and I don't know where I stand. Can anybody help me?
 

cugila

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You must inform DVLA if:
• you suffer more than one episode of disabling hypoglycaemia (low blood sugar) within 12 months, or if you or your carer feels you are at high risk of developing disabling hypoglycaemia.
• you develop impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia. (difficulty in recognising the warning symptoms of low blood sugar)
• you suffer disabling hypoglycaemia while driving.
an existing medical condition gets worse or you develop any other condition that may affect you driving safely.

The above information is from the latest DVLA 'At a Glance Guide' about medical conditions. As you can see you MUST notify DVLA and you may in due course have to undergo a medical to show you are OK to be driving. DVLA are the people who will decide if you can drive any more. All the evidence will be considered and a decision made by them.

The Police will notify DVLA and you must make sure that you comply otherwise you will have only a slim chance of keeping your licence.

You have not been banned from driving, so once your Bg levels are at a safer level you will be able to drive again.


The DVLA link:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/ataglance.aspx

Ken (Retired Traffic Cop)
 

donnellysdogs

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Hi Ken

Thanks for your answer to my post.

I couldn't get through to DVLA today, but have asked them by email to send me a medical questionnaire for diabetics.

I am seeing my consultant tomorrow for my annual check up, so I guess I had better try and get him on my side, as I guess the DVLA will write to him.

Will they revoke my licence before writing to my gp and consultant?

Will dvla allow me to write an explanation with the questionnaire as to what happened and why the ambulance and police was called? SHould I try to give my explanation to them?

This is the first time I have ever had a disabling hypo at the wheel of a car in 25 years, and despite driving erratically, I had stopped the car myself and was getting sweets out the glove box when the off duty fireman intervened. Would it be worth trying to tell the dvla this when I send in the questionnaire?

I have always had a 3 year licence for past 25 years, do you know what my chances are of losing/keeping my licence?
Many thanks
Sharon
 

cugila

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Hi Sharon.
I wouldn't get too worried just yet....a long way to go before they think about revoking your licence.

What I suggest you do is notify them about the disabling hypo and the circumstances and then await any developments. Don't get too far ahead of yourself. There is a procedure which will be followed. It used to be that they send out a questionnaire which you fill in. You could just put all the circumstances as you remember them in your letter when you tell them about it. Then wait and see.

I cannot tell you what exactly will happen as I have never worked at the DVLA, just with them in my previous life...... :wink: They don't always hit you straight away and it does seem from what you say that it was a 'one off' which you were about to deal with correctly. That will go in your favour.

Let us know how you get on.

Ken
 

donnellysdogs

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Thank you Ken, so very much.

I have printed off the DVLA form and also written a letter to accompany it, stating that I was trying to help myself but the off duty fireman took over and that was that basically, but laying weight to that I had pulled over off the road and was trying to eat sweets. I have an ambulance number and paperwork which states I was coherent and able to answer questions etc. It does say that the fireman noticed I was driving erratically, but I had pulled over and stopped. I now need to get the consultant on my side tomorrow, I'm not much good at doing this, but will just have to explain.

I just hope and keep[ my fingers crossed, but thank you so much for your advice Ken.
It is very much appreciated. Thanks Sharon
 

Lucie75

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Hi Sharon,

Just wanted to wish you luck, I think the majority of people on here will be 'on your side'. This is something that strikes the fear of God into all diabetics, as potentially this could happen to any of us.

Please keep us updated

:D

Lucie
 

donnellysdogs

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Update:

Consultant said that they will take my licence away, probably for a year.
He said my readings are too low, and I had to see the nurse and dietitian before he would do anything about backing me up to get it back. I saw the nurse who told me privately that she knew of one gentleman that got his licence back within 6 weeks, after the consultant said he was ok. However, she said that at the moment they couldn't say my levels are ok.

She asked why I knew about carb counting, and I told her I had been brought up on exchanges, so I knew about carbs etc. She went back through it with me again, and gave me a weeks plan to do with food and injections and bg's etc, and I have to go back to her in one week.

The consultant was pretty useless, I have chronic pain in my legs from statin damage, and he said he wouldn't do anything about that until I sorted out my levels. He said to go really high on my readings, so I would get symptoms back, and this made me very argumentative, as I said to him, I recognise the symptoms, I had stopped, and I had given him a copy of the letter what I had written ready to go to DVLA. He said I had to notify DVLA. He also said he had at least 1 diabetic every 2 months that would lose their licence due to hypo's and accidents. Consultant just didn't listen to the fact that I do recognise hypo's and I told him how I recognise highs/lows, but he just really did not listen to me, and just said he would review it all at a later date. I didn't

I have sent my letter to the dvla with the questionnaire this afternoon when I come back, as the consultant said the police would do it, and it would be revoked immediately. The letter is a real begging one, but one that states all the facts, as was.

I haven't stopped crying since it happened. My blood pressure is normally 110 over 60 and today it was 160 over 88....not good, but I can't stop feeling so angry with myself.

At the end of the day I was hypo, despite helping myself before other persons took over, and it isn't the fact that I was helping myself or that I stopped, it is the mere fact I had /was been hypo.

Thanks for the comments and help...
Sharon
 

cugila

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Hi Sharon.
When I worked and dealt with this the Police just sent a notice to the DVLA who then decided what was going to happen. ? I have known drivers in similar circumstances who did not have their licences revoked but had it reduced to a 1 yr licence instead. There were also one or two who did lose their licences.

We have no way of knowing what the levels are that the DVLA now use and also what your Consultant has stated are low levels....he may be right, and it may be that you do need a period to get things back on track. You really do have to try and wait and see just what is going to happen. You will make yourself ill worrying, and yes I do sympathise with you and understand what you must be feeling at this time.

I hope it all goes the way you want, but you have to face up to the fact that you may get your licence revoked or reduced in term. Might be an idea to ask for a second opinion from another Consultant if you think it might help your case.

Ken.
 

donnellysdogs

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Thank you Ken for your help and the good advice. I will if you don't mind send you a copy by PM of the letter I sent to the DVLA today. It also gives more details of exactly what happened.

Luck hasn't been on my side for the last few weeks, this is the horrible thing to hapen to me, so I am expecting a huge whammy to hit me for the 3rd thing!!

I know I have to stay positive, but I am also a realist, so I am just trying to get by minute by minute at the moment, but I do appreciate your advice very much.

Thank you Sharon
 

cugila

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Hi Sharon.
I have sent you a pm.......

Ken.
 

ljwilson

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Lucie75 said:
Hi Sharon,

Just wanted to wish you luck, I think the majority of people on here will be 'on your side'. This is something that strikes the fear of God into all diabetics, as potentially this could happen to any of us.

Please keep us updated

:D

Lucie

Sorry if I sound really harsh but I am not on Sharons' side. As someone who totally relies on her car for work it makes me furious that Type 1 diabetics do not always ensure they are in a fit state to drive. It could have ended horribly. We all have to be responsible for our own selfs but I imagine that if DVLA get more and more reports about people having potentially very dangerous hypos whilst driving then it will become harder and harder for all of us to get our licences renewed.

Lorna
 

donnellysdogs

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Just wanted to say, that I was actually aware that I was hypo, I knew that I had driven past my house where I needed to go and I knew I wasn't driving right, and I had pulled up and stopped and had started to eat my sweets in the car.

I had done my sugar levels before I went for my walk with my dogs ( I have to drive to the walk, as they and me cannot manage to walk to the walk and walk the walk itself due to all of us having leg problems). The mistake I made, was that that 1 hour later before I drove back the 1/2 mile back home, I did not do another blood test, as I was not ever aware at any other time of the readings dropping so rapidly.

So I admit in doing wrong on my return journey, but after 1 hour I had not expected to have dropped so rapidly from my reading that was 5.9, and I had ate a piece of tea bread before I went out without any injection.
I have never experience such rapid sugar level drop in my 25 years, my basal units have been pretty much static for quite somewhile and I didn't do anything out of the ordinary at all in the hour I was out. It was a normal day, except I did do the crime of not checking my blood in the car prior to the 1/2 mile drive home.

The nurse has given me a blood machine to keep in the car now, and I will never drive without it. I check my levels a minimum of 5 times a day.

I see that you are expressing quite some anger towards me and what has happened, I accpet this, but I also hope that this posting may help others realise the danger of even a 1/2 mile journey when your reading was 5.9 an hour before.

Your anger is nothing compared to the anger I feel at myself, believe me. I posted this topic for help on what I could expect the outcome to be. I didn't expect to be 'shouted' at, it really isn't very nice when I am really feeling so very bad at myself anyway.

I was not looking for sympathy or anger from people, just some help as to what I could expect from the dvla. Please can you bear this in mind before writing angry remarks to me.
 

donnellysdogs

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Actually, I used to check my levels 5 times a day, currently they are at least 10 times a day, and doing food diary and insulin records etc. All levels since have been spot on.
 

copepod

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As you've mentioned "leg problems", you should be aware that DVLA will take all aspects of your health into consideration, including hypo awareness / management and leg movement / sensation. They can issure restricted licences eg for automatic cars only or for other special equipment in car.
I hope your situation reaches an appropriate outcome. You're right that your situation should be a reminder to all of us who use insulin to test before even the shortest drive.
 

sgtchilco

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Hi Sharon,

In Jan this year I had a serious car accident that was related to a hypo, where I crashed into a stationary car at speed and fractured my sternum. I was very lucky I did not injure anyone else, it could of easily have been the case. I am 41 years old, with type 1 diabetes. I have been a diabetic for 27 years, a motorist for 22 and I had never had a single incident before this. I am well controlled, a Hba1c a few weeks prior to the accident was 6.8.

As you could imagine I was devasted and very confused how such a thing could happen! I can understand how some people take the attitude that "its all your fault - if you looked after yourself this wouldn't of happened" - I am certainly not so quick to judge. Up to my accident I was very well controlled and took a very responsible attitude to driving. I was doing some physical work on a remote site and simply ran out of food - it was a nightmare situation for a diabetic - I didnt become hypo behind the wheel, I was hypo for several hours before I tried to drive - a comma would have been much kinder to me!

Following the accident I was very lucky, my DSN was very helpful and we looked in detail at exactly what happened leading up the accident. We considered food, insulin and excercise and I felt much better when I could understand the circumstances. I can make sure nothing like it ever happens again.

It sounds as if my accident was more serious than yours, I had to be rescued from my car and rushed to hospital. In my accident the police informed the DVLA and my lisence was revoked with immediate effect, although the letter took a few weeks to arrive. I was informed that the earliest I could reapply was 3 months and that was on condition of having a letter of support from my GP / Diabetes specialist. I was also told to allow 8 weeks after reapplication for the DVLA to carry out their own enquiries.

All in all it took me about 5 months before I got my lisence back. Its taking a lot longer to regain the confidence to drive again.

I am not sure that you are looking for advice as such but I think the most important thing is that you understand fully what went wrong and you can demonstrate to all involved GP / consultant / DVLA medical unit that nothing like this can ever happen again. Be prepared to write plenty of letters and keep the DVLA informed - they are not always the easiest organisation to deal with. If I was you, even if you have not been officially informed yet I wouldn't drive - the DVLA will be in touch soon.

Simon
 

donnellysdogs

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HI Simon

Thank you so very much for letting me know what happened to you, and what happened about revoking your licence and especially about not allowed to re apply for 3 months, that gives me a clue as to what to expect. I so wanted to hear from somebody that had been through this experience, and I so appreciate your taking the time to detail it to me. The Registrar that saw me for 2 minutes last Thursday told me to expect a year, and that he saw at least 1 person every 2 months who had their drving licence taken off them, but nobody here prior to yourself has actually experienced it, so I had no idea what to expect.

I went to a GP yesterday and asked which one of the 6 GP's would be completing the form and asked if I could show my daily records to him/her. The GP was very short with me, and said that she didn't need to see the daily records as they meant nothing, all she was interested in was the HbA1C (currently 7.1), and that I was only just within 'normal' levels. I asked what abnormal was and she said normal was 6.5 to 7.5. She said that the HbA1C of 7.1 meant that my daily records could be anywhere between 2 and 20 and she didn't need to see them. I said that I had never been asked by any GP since moving here anything about my diabetes, and that as far as I was aware that they didn't even know if I was 'hypo' aware, so I would like to see the GP who would fill out the form.
She said that with her practive covering 9000 patients and GP's on holidays, it could be anybody that does it and the DVLA are slow at sending out letters, so it was impossible for me to see the GP.

I am currently testing my bloods at least 10 times a day, and seeing the DSN tomorrow with all the results and how what I eat etc. I have got the Head Honcho Registrar to agree that whoever is writing the report will see me before writing it, and they will contact me as soon as they get the letter from the DVLA.

I have to accept what's coming, and Ken has helped me make a lot of sense around this. I really appreciate reading the details of what happened to you, it helps enormously to know 1st hand what happened to somebody else. I have written a pm to you, as there is another question that I would like to ask you, I hope you don't mind.

Thank you so much Simon. Your telling me your experience was just what I needed to read.
 

Tracey167

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Hi

I had my driving licience revoked january 2009 due to completing a medical questionaire in my 3 year check and they asked for 3 months of my blood sugar readings because I told them that i had had 3 hypos in 12 months. They wrote back telling me that they have revoked my licience because of the hypos and low sugars and I can re-apply for it when i have not had any low sugars/Hypos for 3 months which for a type 1 diabetic is a hard to do.

To be honest don't lie to them because if anything did happened it voids your insurance as well especially if it was caused by a hypo.

TRACEY167
 

donnellysdogs

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Thank you for the information Tracey. That too is very helpful, have you managed to get your licence back, did you send the DVLA copies of your blood tests? I have actually asked the DVLA whether I could show them all my readings, foods and bloods, as this GP and this hospital have never looked at them, and yet they are writing the report on me.
Actually the plain truth is, I have only been to this hospital once prior to this incident, and they didn't look at any of my daily levels or records, and sent me away for 12 months. It was only on the day after this incident that I had my 2nd 12 month hospital visit, when the 1st consultant ran to get the chief honcho registrar who came in to the room and said I needed to raise my levels to get my hypo awareness back, this was when I said to them AGAIN, I had hypo awareness and I was sorting myself out. He then had a very quick cursory glance at my levels and said my morning ones were too low. Nobody discussed what I had ate that day, what injections I had had, or whether I had done anything out of the ususal. The nurse said afterwards 'do I carb count? and do I alter my injections?' to which I replied, 'how do you think I have managed for 25 years?'- not really the best thing to say I know.

I used to have an excellent rapport with last GP who would let me email him ref diabetes and medical issues, and I have 4 different excel sheets on with all my blood, food etc on from 3 years ago, that proves how balanced I have been, and they could check these out with my previous GP.

I just feel so very angry with myself and as if I am on a loser here with the support I have had with my diabetes, and even when I saw the GP on Tuesday this week she didn't even want to look at my daily blood levels, she said all she was interested in was my HbA1C. I am going to print off my old record sheets and emails that I used to send my previous GP and take with me today, and leave them with the hospital nurse to go on my file, and going to copy my current daily records to also leave with her to go on my file. I do not know how I can get support from my GP surgery, if the senior practive GP doesn't think my daily BG's are worth while looking at.

I was previously looked after by my GP who was fantastic, but here I had to ask to get referred to the hospital 18 months ago, as the GP's would only let me have 2 strips per day. They increased them when the hospital wrote and told them too. I am going to ask them today to write another letter asking the GP to give me even more strips.

I feel a lot better knowing now, what may happen. Your experience and Simon's have been invaluable to read. I feel stronger from having read your experiences.

Would you be able to let me know Tracey if you got your licence back, and what you did or didn't do to get it back?

Many thanks
Sharon
 

Tracey167

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Hi Sharon

No I haven't got my licience back yet because i was having so many hypos for no apparent reason my levels were just dropping so i thought its not even worth trying. But i got my insulin pump last friday and i have been told once i have got everything under control i have a good chance of re-applying for my licience. The thing is G.P's don't really have a clue about diabetes so how they can say that they don't need to see your blood results amazes me because that is the main thing that shows how your control is each day. I would'nt worry all diabetics are different for what happens to one may not be the same for others, its not your fault.

Let me know how you get on if you want send me a private message

Good luck

Tracey167
 

iHs

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2 things are gravely wrong with all this Sharon :evil:

The most serious is that not only has your gp failed to adhere to their duty of care by not issuing sufficient test strips so that you can test 6 times a day but also by not following you up every 6 months at their surgery so that you can see a visiting DSN. If you had been reviewed by a DSN she/he would have looked at your bg diary and given you some advice regarding both your basal doses and also your bolus and you may well have been able to avoid the hypo incident altogether. You would probably have been able to get yourself transferred over to another basal through the DSN.

As Tracey has just said, your GP seems clueless about bg levels but I think reading between the lines here is that there is going to be a cover up so that they can blame their negligent behaviour onto yourself. That is why she doesn't want to see what yr levels are on a daily basis.

I think what might go in your favour would be for you to mention to the DVLA that if you had been educated properly on calculating your insulin to a carb ratio, then you would have given yourself the correct amount of bolus insulin instead of adding up the amount of carb and using guesswork (which you thought was correct) and coming unstuck.

As per usual with most things, the gate gets closed after the cows have got out :( :twisted: