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Redefining diabetes ?

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by TerryinDorset, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My first thought when I saw the latest newsletter & the weight loss of a Christopher Biggins being trumpeted as the main item was, who is this person to have such praise heaped upon him? I'd not heard of him before but it appears he developed Type 2 & went to Germany to loose weight.

    My second thought was why trumpet this trip & why go to Germany ? It doesn't say much about Mr.Biggin's faith in the facilities or services here in the UK. With UK health care taking the beating it is from the Tory government it would be a boost if the publicity had been aimed at the work carried out here rather than at presumably, expensive German operations.

    I'm a retired SRN & reversed my T2 by loosing 3 stones in 3 months using the Newcastle Diet. It was simple & easy demanding only application & perseverance. T2 reversal by weight loss has been known about for very many years & Professor Taylor at Newcastle University has done much in this regard. There are many many success stories here in this forum to choose from, after all.

    Perhaps the editorial people at Diabetes UK should look closer to home to publish the efforts & success in this country rather than give free advertising to German health farms.
     
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    #1 TerryinDorset, Jun 11, 2019 at 11:45 AM
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2019
  2. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Never heard of him?? He's one of the worlds finest Twankys you know!
     
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  3. zand

    zand Type 2 · Master

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    Well done on reversing your T2. :)

    I wish it was that 'easy' for all of us. Me, I'm still struggling 8 years on.

    I do agree that there's no need to travel abroad to lose weight.
     
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  4. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    I've heard of him and seen him on TV. Stupid to go abroad for that; all he needed to do was read this forum for advice!
     
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  5. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    May I ask what this has to do with "Redefining Diabetes"?
     
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  6. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/christopher-biggins-cut-out-sugar-fighting-type-2-diabetes/

    A misconception within diabetes circles is that type 2 diabetes is a chronic, progressive disease, but modern research is disproving this theory. Eating a healthy, real-food diet and getting regular exercise can help people lose weight, improve their blood glucose levels and, most impressively, even come off medication and put the condition into remission.

    Christopher went to Germany because he is a rich celeb and can afford to go to a sugar free spa for a while, however I suspect if he doesn't learn how to eat lower carb in the real world the weight and the diabetes could creep back in.
    And yes this is just one method of putting t2d into remissions. Other known methods are bariatric sugery and extreme caloric restriction (fasting and The Newcastle diet) but with neither being as yet readily available via the NHS nor any lCHF options perhaps it is understandable that Christopoher Biggins went elsewhere.
     
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  7. kitedoc

    kitedoc Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think it is about redefining diabetes to include all persons with this condition who do not need expensive ways and publicity to prove that they can succeed in making the best of their health options whatever they are.
     
  8. britishpub

    britishpub Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Any publicity that "redefines" T2D as a condition that can easily be controlled or reversed without resorting to expensive medication, must be welcomed.

    Whilst we all know this as fact, the vast majority of people do not yet.
     
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  9. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    for some. Just for some. Creating the idea that its easy to control and reverse can be as damaging for those for whom this is not true as the opposite idea that it is always progressive and uncontrollable.

    moderation and avoiding sweeping generalizations is good. Swapping one damaging and inaccurate definition for another is not good.
     
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  10. Rachox

    Rachox Type 2 (in remission!) · Master
    Retired Moderator

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    Like this perhaps, assuming you actually mean this website diabetes.co.uk rather than the other lot at Diabetes UK?
    Myself and other members here (none of us celebrities) were videoed at a publicity event last year and our photos and videos are used regularly.
    https://www.diabetes.co.uk/reversing-diabetes.html
     
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  11. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I agree in principle with what you have said but where my misgivings lie are in the medicalised approach (be it in Germany or here in the UK) to those with Pre Diabetes or Type 2 Diabetes not treated with hypoglycaemics or insulin. I have been struggling with the idea that people may get the impression that only a HCP could prescribe a particular diet as a treatment for IR when many of us have improved our prognoses without ever seeing anyone specially trained in Diabetes or metabolic health.

    It may be my nasty, suspicious mind at work again but I get the impression that *they* would like to suggest that it is far too difficult for a layperson to go it alone wrt reversing or achieving remission of T2 and 'best leave all the decisions to us, eh Dear'.
     
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  12. Member496333

    Member496333 · Guest

    And many more still have improved their prognoses by actively doing the exact opposite of the advice they were given.
     
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  13. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    Christopher Biggins, from I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here!
     
  14. lovinglife

    lovinglife Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes - where if I remember rightly he lived on rice and beans lost a shed load of weight and Doctor Bob (the medic on the show) said he had reduced his blood sugars to non diabetic levels - move forward a few months and he's on Celebrity Come Dine With Me - 5 days of eating humongous amount of carbs and loads of sugar laden desserts - also in Big Brother he seemed to be very partial to all things carbs and sugar - not that I watch a lot of reality TV you understand ;)
     
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  15. TerryinDorset

    TerryinDorset Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I will post this reply & no more.
    jo the boat = I've not heard of him before & I don't know what a twankey is.

    zand = I just followed the diet to the letter & kept going until my BS was normal again.

    nicolec1971 = the Newcastle diet doesn't need to be on the nhs & it's free. vegetables & replacement meals are cheap & affordable. You're right about learning.

    rachox = of course I meant diabetes.co.uk.

    listlad = I have never heard of him before now & I don't watch mind-numbing tv programs.

    I will say that these diabetic sites are bad at clear teaching which is why so many people still have weird ideas about diabetes. I find these promotions of certain people are very shallow & reek of cheap publicity stunts.
    If you have one, treasure your practice Diabetic Nurse.
     
  16. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    Christopher Biggins played 'Lukewarm' in the Brit comedy, Porridge :hilarious:
     
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  17. wiflib

    wiflib Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I’ve not met one nurse who specialises in diabetes that actually knows much about diabetes at all.
    One was just about to call 999 after dipping my wee and finding the stick going purple. I had to explain to her the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis and the almost impossible chance of DKA in a T2 not taking insulin.
     
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  18. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Master
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Terry, this is my personal comment, as opposed to expressing the views of this or any other site, but my only comment would be that, in reality, there are very few practises out there who have nurses specialising, or having a serious interest in diabetes. There are many, many practises where there is a nurse who is accountable for conducting post-diagnostic consultations for diabetes and diabetes reviews, however, their specialist expertise can often be scant.

    So very often a Practise Diabetes Nurse will also be the Asthma, Stress, Cholesterol, Blood Pressure Nurse.

    If you have found differently at your own practise, I am delighted for you.
     
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  19. ShortStuff

    ShortStuff · Well-Known Member

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    *If you have one, treasure your practice Diabetic Nurse*

    :banghead:

    My first Diabetic Nurse was DIRE and the subsequent ones haven’t been much better. It’s no wonder we have a crisis with the information they hand out.

    Fortunately, when I was diagnosed I had enough sense to research and make up *my* own mind about how to deal with *my* health.

    I’ll take low carbing over eating lots of carbs at every meal and taking medication, thanks all the same.
     
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  20. alienskin

    alienskin · Active Member

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    It's certainly not a fact that T2D can be easily controlled or reversed.

    It's precisely to answer this question why studies such as the Direct Remission Clinical Trial are carried out. Roy Taylor's research into how a VLC can put T2D into remission for some patients is very promising. But bear in mind that his initial study showed that certain subjects were discovered to be 'non-responders' (18 out 30), and didn't achieve remission. Other people achieved remission but reverted after the trial ended. Furthermore, remission was defined as not having diabetic numbers, so many subjects were still getting high numbers in the 75ml glucose test.

    We don't fully understand what happens over the long term to people who go on such a diet, maintain their weight, and eat a low-carb diet or a keto-diet. Do such diet arrest beta-cell decline, reverse it somewhat, slow it down? Do long term keto diets cause other low-term issues? These are hard questions which the medical community doesn't fully know the answer to. We can't actually look into people's pancreas to see the state of their beta-cells, so good control today doesn't necessarily mean there is no progression going on.

    However, such interventions show real promise. We know the anecdotal evidence on these forums shows that people are able to achieve amazing results through lifestyle and diet change. And Professor Taylor's research seems to be making its way into the advice the medical community are giving. This is a good thing.

    Personally, I think that the answer lies in between. I think for most patients T2D will tend to be progressive. However, for many lifestyle changes can slow this progression down so much that it's essentially permanent remission. There's a big difference between needing to go on insulin in 10 years, and needing to go on metformin in 50 years. The latter is a sign of progression but for most people is essentially permanent remission. Roy Taylor's research demonstrated a strong correlation between the duration of the condition and the response. Non-responders tended to have been diagnosed more than 8 years ago.

    For people who have been very recently diagnosed and take prompt radical action, non-progression seems to be a real possibility, and I think the medical community is finally waking up to this fact.

    Professor Taylor puts it best himself:
    "The study population represents a group of individuals motivated to regain their health, and this is an important point. The crucial factor which differentiates this dietary intervention from previous attempts is the clearly identified goal of becoming free of Type 2 diabetes. The distinction between the treatment of a potentially curable disease and that of a chronic progressive condition was made eloquently by one individual, who contrasted the often reported battle to ‘beat’ a life-threatening disease such as cancer with the learned helplessness induced by advice that diabetes was inevitably progressive. The responses clearly show that this minority of health-motivated people strongly resent being told that there is nothing that can be done to escape from Type 2 diabetes and that they must take medication. The overwhelming impression gained by doctors from their routine clinical practice is that people with Type 2 diabetes rarely succeed in losing weight, and the critical point that there is a subgroup who are strongly motivated by desire to regain health has not been widely recognized. Some doctors do know that occasionally people do reverse their diabetes, but this is not acknowledged by clinical guidelines."
     
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