Resistant starches.

[catherinecherub]

Would you expect a difference in blood glucose results when you eat pasta depending on the way it was cooked and presented?

This clip is worth watching and shows the different readings you will get depending as to whether the pasta is freshly cooked, chilled or reheated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0287yzj

 

[Hooked]

Interesting. I knew the way things were prepared could alter their effects on our levels slightly; but not that cooling and reheating did this. If I'm organised enough, I'll be doing this when I can from now on!

 

[phoenix]

Hi Catherine,
It was quite a good demonstration of the effects in 'real life'
Hooked there is a reasonably simple explanation on the Montignac diet site (scroll down to How retrogradation inverses gelatinization)
There are also quite a few threads on here about it. This one has lots of links.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/potato-starch.54940/
I wonder how @Wurst got on with his potato starch experiment.

If you search then you'll find quite a lot on the internet about it. if you search diabetes, potatoes and resistant starch diabetes forums you'll quite find quite a few n=1 experiments on a couple of the US forums with people retrograding potatoes/rice/beans and reheating them Here's one of the originals
http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/topic/48951-mashed-potatoes/
( I noticed that he used vinegar which does seems to help the process of retrograding but he also added fats before the cooling time and that's that's supposed to retard the process)

 

[Hooked]

Hi Catherine,
It was quite a good demonstration of the effects in 'real life'
Hooked there is a reasonably simple explanation on the Montignac diet site (scroll down to How retrogradation inverses gelatinization)
There are also quite a few threads on here about it. This one has lots of links.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/potato-starch.54940/
I wonder how @Wurst got on with his potato starch experiment.

If you search then you'll find quite a lot on the internet about it. if you search diabetes, potatoes and resistant starch diabetes forums you'll quite find quite a few n=1 experiments on a couple of the US forums with people retrograding potatoes/rice/beans and reheating them Here's one of the originals
http://www.diabetesforums.com/forum/topic/48951-mashed-potatoes/
( I noticed that he used vinegar which does seems to help the process of retrograding but he also added fats before the cooling time and that's that's supposed to retard the process)

Very interesting, thanks for the links!

 

[douglas99]

The experiment is under way.

A 'shepherds pie type, but topped with a mixture of a reasonably sized potato, equal of amount of cauli, mashed with a bit of cider vinegar, some butter, and topped with cheese.
The shepherds pie base is the leftover from a mince stew, so a fair amount of veg in there, but it didn't spike me last time I ate it. It's also frozen, so it'll certainly cool the mash.

Update to follow.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I wonder if it works on bread? Fresh sliced bread, frozen at home, defrosted/toasted?

 

[Hooked]

The experiment is under way.

A 'shepherds pie type, but topped with a mixture of a reasonably sized potato, equal of amount of cauli, mashed with a bit of cider vinegar, some butter, and topped with cheese.
The shepherds pie base is the leftover from a mince stew, so a fair amount of veg in there, but it didn't spike me last time I ate it. It's also frozen, so it'll certainly cool the mash.

Update to follow.

I'll be interested to hear how you get on. Funnily enough I had leftover homemade shepherds pie for lunch today. Increased my levels by 2mmol/ls..... but I'm unsure how much normal shepherds pie increases it as it's so long since I ate it.

 

[douglas99]

I'll be interested to hear how you get on. Funnily enough I had leftover homemade shepherds pie for lunch today. Increased my levels by 2mmol/ls..... but I'm unsure how much normal shepherds pie increases it as it's so long since I ate it.

Depending on time and temperature, I'll be posting back today or tomorrow hopefully, with results, good or bad.

 

[phoenix]

I wonder if it works on bread? Fresh sliced bread, frozen at home, defrosted/toasted?

Apparently yes, according to the Montignac link I forgot to include in my last post http://www.montignac.com/en/the-factors-that-modify-glycemic-indexes/
There are of course foods that have larger amounts of naturall occurring resistant starch . Green bananas have a huge amount but beans and other pulses also have significant amounts.
(I have to sit on my hands every time someone else writes that 'all starch turns to glucose', because it doesn't, only the starch that is absorbed Resistant starch resists absorption and then along with other types of fibre 'feeds' the microbial community in our gut and that may be very important.

A bit off topic but I've just started learning more about this.
How important are our microbes? We don't really know yet but it's being thought to play a much bigger part in our health than anyone ever used to think.
Here's one big and fascinating project that is trying to find out more about our other selves, including the effect of diet on the type of microbes we harbour and the effect of the different types of microbes on health
Trivia : We have about 10 trillion human cells in our body but about 100 trillion microbial cells. And we are all very different , whereas you share 99.9% of your genome with your neighbour you might only share 10% of your biome (the DNA in your microbes )
http://humanfoodproject.com/

 

[jack412]

@phoenix for trivia, diabetics have an altered gut microbes than their peer population

 

[douglas99]

Probably more a combination of the pitta

http://www.waitrose.com/shop/Produc...e+Food+Doctor+multi+seed+&+cereal+pitta+bread

the fact I had sausage and mushrooms on it, and maybe because the pitta had been kept in the fridge before I re-heated it, but still worked for me.

6.7 after 1 hour
5.4 after 2 hours

No exercise.

 

[noblehead]

Very interesting and Dr Robertson explains the process very well (as do you Phoenix). Do love pasta in moderation so it's reheated chilled pasta from here on

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Do love pasta in moderation so it's reheated chilled pasta from here on

Perhaps the chicken and broccoli pasta bake I used to love could be back on the menu, it will need investigating

 

[phoenix]

Perhaps the chicken and broccoli pasta bake I used to love could be back on the menu, it will need investigating

The big problem is that if you are cooking the pasta for a long time then a lot of the starch will become readily available. Then you cool it and a portion will become resistant starch.... but how much, enough to counter the un retrograded portion which might on recooking become more gelatinised . If there are fats in your pasta bake it adds another variable because it will retard retrogration. Not only that, If you re cook the broccoli it's also likely to turn it khaki coloured !
Perhaps you should cook the pasta al dente, allow to cool and refrigerate and then make the pasta bake with par cooked pasta.

 

[douglas99]

Made it
Ate it.

4.6 pre meal

5.8 after 30 minutes.

 

[andcol]

I wonder if it works on bread? Fresh sliced bread, frozen at home, defrosted/toasted?

Doesnt make any difference with crumpets - they are large contributers either fresh or frozen/defrosted/toasted

 

[douglas99]

4.6 pre meal

5.8 after 30 minutes

5.7 after 60 minutes

 

[douglas99]

4.6 pre meal

5.8 after 30 minutes

5.7 after 60 minutes

5.5 after 2 hours.

So a resounding success

I may up the ante, as it wasn't a huge amount of potato.
I also put a couple of baked potatoes in, which are now in the fridge.

I may try one of those re-heated tomorrow.

 

[Lamont D]

Are you sure you are diabetic? Most non diabetics don't get them numbers with the amount of carbs you have eaten no matter how you have prepared it?

 

[douglas99]

Are you sure you are diabetic? Most non diabetics don't get them numbers with the amount of carbs you have eaten no matter how you have prepared it?

I have to be honest, I am surprised at how low my numbers are today.

I do find if I eat more carbs, my numbers briefly go up, but then my tolerance seems to go up, if I eat less, my tolerance goes down.
I find eating low GI carbs normally keeps me reasonable with a few more carbs occasionally.
Part of my reluctance to go LC, but then I don't like HF either.

Based on my figures, if they carry on, I'm dropping the sitagliptin at the end of this month, and I also intend to give the Newcastle diet a shot for 4 weeks to see it I can improve a bit more.
I did initially go low calorie, but only about 800 to 1200 calorie, which seems to have mimicked some aspects of the Newcastle diet, but I think there may still be room for improvement.
It does seem a bit pointless pushing it if I'm still on drugs, but I have a program with my doctor in place, and the timing suits me for other reasons as well, so I'm sticking with it at the moment.