Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

Max68

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751
@JRT Absolutely agree with everything you say.

In conversation with three colleagues last night (we have a small WhatsApp joke telling group!!) I was informed that a colleague who recently gave birth had her Individual Risk Assessment last week after a wait of two weeks since her request. Why I'm waiting after requesting one in July I have no idea. However on Friday I spoke to the Union and my Rep has now emailed my Head requesting and Individual Risk Assessment. It's not an aggressive letter at my request, but an olive branch as if to say "come on this is getting silly I've waited long enough". Whilst of course the I.R.A will not ease all of my fears as long as the school has considered all Government guidelines and is adhering them, with my Rep getting in contact it might make the school wake up a bit on their responsibility and accepting my responsibility to myself. He quoted quite a good link actually to them with regard to Diabetes and Covid. I have added the Union email below in case others want their Union to come up with something similar.

This week could be problematic as it looks like rain is finally coming in after being dry for a few weeks. Forcing me inside is not an option that I am looking forward to but what else can I do, stand outside a closed classroom door with an umbrella? I'd end up being known as the Wally with the Brolly as a certain football manager was named years ago!

Cases in Australia are down which isn't surprising as their winter is finishing and spring is on it's way. Cases in Europe are up because our summer is finishing. The Government and others seem surprised and yet all that surprises me is that those people are surprised. We still have not learned from The Spanish Flu of 1919 with it's three waves. Deaths are on the up again and will they get to March-May levels? Hope not but who knows and yet we still have a government who are umming and ahhing about what to do to.

One thing to be thankful for is mum's care home closed down again this week. Gutting to not be able to visit her but they shut down in February, earlier than many others and have been proactive again. No cases at all so far and I hope that continues.

PROACTIVE is the keyword. More bosses, heads etc should be braver and look at the evidence on the governments handling of this and say forget the guidance - we are going to protect our own and make our own decisions.

The letter as promised -

I am writing regarding the need for an individual risk assessment to be considered and in place with some urgency, for your staff member *******.

Risk assessments need to be in place for members of staff with underlying health conditions, to enable the member of staff to return to the workplace and ensure employers have fulfilled their responsibility under health and safety legislation.

I would like to draw your attention to the following:

  • Risk assessments are a requirement of Government guidance for The Full Opening of Schools, and (S3) of The Management of Health and Safety in the Workplace Regulations 1999, makes risk assessment a requirement under Health and Safety Legislation.
    • This includes assessing the individual circumstances for each employee before requiring them to attend the workplace. Circumstances also include the individuals own health conditions alongside any additional concerns that would place them at higher risk and must take account of personal or household circumstances and where necessary medical advice.
  • Although Government advice is that employees can return to the workplace, in some circumstances and for some individuals this will not be safe unless additional mitigants to risk are identified and implemented through risk assessment.
    • An individual risk assessment might conclude it is safer for an employee to continue to work from home if medical evidence supported this, an individual be redeployed to different tasks within the workplace to support greater levels of social distancing, or the employee be instructed to adopt different methods of working to minimise identified risks.
  • It is my belief you have been made aware of the following underlying medical conditions; Type 2 Diabetes and Hypertension and that Mr ***** is on medication for both conditions.
  • The following report from the Health Science company ZOE and Kings College London helps explain concerns about individuals with Type 2 Diabetes and the risks from Covid-19 infection. https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/diabetes-covid-risk
    • These underlying conditions are known to put Mr ***** at a higher risk of a serious impact to his health should he contract Covid19 and he understandably remains extremely anxious about the potential risk to his health and safety at ***** School.
    • Mr ***** does not feel fully safe at the school. The absence of an individual risk assessment is a factor in this belief.
    • There is an urgent need to address this situation, in order to reduce the stress and anxiety it is causing our member.

Therefore I would like you to agree that, given these circumstances, and the anxiety this is causing Mr *****; a risk assessment will be put in place taking into account Mr ***** individual circumstances by 25/09/20.

It is my understanding that Mr *****requested an individual risk assessment take place and has mentioned it previously in email to ***** on 14th July 2020 and requested one again on 25th August 2020. He has been informed that ***** is dealing with it and that it had been passed to ***** the Executive Head to manage. There has now been a delay of over 2 months, during which time the school would have been aware of the need for this to be in place for vulnerable staff to be able to return to the workplace.

I would be grateful if you could let me know the reasons why the individual risk assessment is not in place, any issue which is causing a delay and why a staff member with underlying health conditions is expected to attend the workplace, when the requirement to consider individual circumstances and conduct individual risk assessment as a requirement of Health and Safety Legislation, hasn’t been complied with.

I appreciate the workload, school leadership teams have been facing during unprecedented times and do not underestimate the challenge this causes, especially when guidance is changing frequently. I have attached the Joint Union Checklist documents, which might help with this task.

Please don’t hesitate to contact me if I could assist or offer further advice about the individual risk assessment document, in any way.

Yours faithfully.
 
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JRT

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256
@JRT Absolutely agree with everything you say.

In conversation with three colleagues last night (we have a small WhatsApp joke telling group!!) I was informed that a colleague who recently gave birth had her Individual Risk Assessment last week after a wait of two weeks since her request. Why I'm waiting after requesting one in July I have no idea. However on Friday I spoke to the Union and my Rep has now emailed my Head requesting and Individual Risk Assessment. It's not an aggressive letter at my request, but an olive branch as if to say "come on this is getting silly I've waited long enough". Whilst of course the I.R.A will not ease all of my fears as long as the school has considered all Government guidelines and is adhering them, with my Rep getting in contact it might make the school wake up a bit on their responsibility and accepting my responsibility to myself. He quoted quite a good link actually to them with regard to Diabetes and Covid. I have added the Union email below in case others want their Union to come up with something similar.

This week could be problematic as it looks like rain is finally coming in after being dry for a few weeks. Forcing me inside is not an option that I am looking forward to but what else can I do, stand outside a closed classroom door with an umbrella? I'd end up being known as the Wally with the Brolly as a certain football manager was named years ago!

Cases in Australia are down which isn't surprising as their winter is finishing and spring is on it's way. Cases in Europe are up because our summer is finishing. The Government and others seem surprised and yet all that surprises me is that those people are surprised. We still have not learned from The Spanish Flu of 1919 with it's three waves. Deaths are on the up again and will they get to March-May levels? Hope not but who knows and yet we still have a government who are umming and ahhing about what to do to.

One thing to be thankful for is mum's care home closed down again this week. Gutting to not be able to visit her but they shut down in February, earlier than many others and have been proactive again. No cases at all so far and I hope that continues.

PROACTIVE is the keyword. More bosses, heads etc should be braver and look at the evidence on the governments handling of this and say forget the guidance - we are going to protect our own and make our own decisions.

The letter as promised -

I am writing regarding the need for an individual risk assessment to be considered and in place with some urgency, for your staff member *******.

Risk assessments need to be in place for members of staff with underlying health conditions, to enable the member of staff to return to the workplace and ensure employers have fulfilled their responsibility under health and safety legislation.

I would like to draw your attention to the following:

  • Risk assessments are a requirement of Government guidance for The Full Opening of Schools, and (S3) of The Management of Health and Safety in the Workplace Regulations 1999, makes risk assessment a requirement under Health and Safety Legislation.
    • This includes assessing the individual circumstances for each employee before requiring them to attend the workplace. Circumstances also include the individuals own health conditions alongside any additional concerns that would place them at higher risk and must take account of personal or household circumstances and where necessary medical advice.
  • Although Government advice is that employees can return to the workplace, in some circumstances and for some individuals this will not be safe unless additional mitigants to risk are identified and implemented through risk assessment.
    • An individual risk assessment might conclude it is safer for an employee to continue to work from home if medical evidence supported this, an individual be redeployed to different tasks within the workplace to support greater levels of social distancing, or the employee be instructed to adopt different methods of working to minimise identified risks.
  • It is my belief you have been made aware of the following underlying medical conditions; Type 2 Diabetes and Hypertension and that Mr ***** is on medication for both conditions.
  • The following report from the Health Science company ZOE and Kings College London helps explain concerns about individuals with Type 2 Diabetes and the risks from Covid-19 infection. https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/diabetes-covid-risk
    • These underlying conditions are known to put Mr ***** at a higher risk of a serious impact to his health should he contract Covid19 and he understandably remains extremely anxious about the potential risk to his health and safety at ***** School.
    • Mr ***** does not feel fully safe at the school. The absence of an individual risk assessment is a factor in this belief.
    • There is an urgent need to address this situation, in order to reduce the stress and anxiety it is causing our member.

Therefore I would like you to agree that, given these circumstances, and the anxiety this is causing Mr *****; a risk assessment will be put in place taking into account Mr ***** individual circumstances by 25/09/20.

It is my understanding that Mr *****requested an individual risk assessment take place and has mentioned it previously in email to ***** on 14th July 2020 and requested one again on 25th August 2020. He has been informed that ***** is dealing with it and that it had been passed to ***** the Executive Head to manage. There has now been a delay of over 2 months, during which time the school would have been aware of the need for this to be in place for vulnerable staff to be able to return to the workplace.

I would be grateful if you could let me know the reasons why the individual risk assessment is not in place, any issue which is causing a delay and why a staff member with underlying health conditions is expected to attend the workplace, when the requirement to consider individual circumstances and conduct individual risk assessment as a requirement of Health and Safety Legislation, hasn’t been complied with.

I appreciate the workload, school leadership teams have been facing during unprecedented times and do not underestimate the challenge this causes, especially when guidance is changing frequently. I have attached the Joint Union Checklist documents, which might help with this task.

Please don’t hesitate to contact me if I could assist or offer further advice about the individual risk assessment document, in any way.

Yours faithfully.
Thankyou Max, the email is really useful.
The unwillingness to complete IRA is slightly perplexing. In my case I've wondered if it's due to lack of ability by my employers. I certainly dont think that is the case with a school.
With regard to your pregnant colleague it's so frustrating that your pregnant colleague got one so quickly. Of course pregnancy is one of the protected characteristics. However so is diabetes as it counts as a disability. My manager mentioned this when I worked for the council and diabetes uk repeated it again recently. I must admit when manager mentioned it I dismissed the idea, I dont think I felt happy with it. I'm sure a lot of people wouldnt consider it to be,including managers. It may however be one of the few protections we have.

I also wonder if the reluctance to complete the IRA is due to fact once completed it would result in staff having to work from home or in a less risky role and this might affect finances/smooth running of the workplace.
Interestingly the reason I was told I couldnt work from home wasnt that there was nothing I could do but that it wouldn't be fair on other workers and basically times were hard and they couldnt afford it! Unless we are protected by legislation specifically declaring risk it's going to be a bit of a battle.
I havent even got as far as alternative roles with my employer. I dont see them agreeing unless they have absolutely no choice. Staffing levels are the bare minimum they can can get away with I cant imagine them relishing an extra admin assistant that isnt needed when I short on floor.
I know they have their lawyers looking at events of past 6months. I know my Union is waiting for them to do the wrong thing or continue to not comply and then it will be looked at by their lawyer. Really it's a battle of wills!
Good news on your Mums Care home. Hopefully all will be well there.
 
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I have had two weeks back at work, there are 4 children in the vehicle and another one will be joining us tomorrow. I was sent a visor, 4 pairs of gloves and hand gel from the county council, the visor is appalling. It is flimsy, rough around the edges and it came with no protective film on the visor, or in it's own plastic bag, so where it originally came from or how many have handled it, I have no idea. A good friend of mine, who works for the railway, has given me a much more substantial visor, it came with it's own protective bag, with protective film, I have been wearing face masks.
 

ert

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Cases in Australia are down which isn't surprising as their winter is finishing and spring is on it's way.
Yours faithfully.[/QUOTE]
Victoria has been in lockdown for 10 weeks.There's be a national lockdown. Other states have had separate lockdowns. State borders have been closed. Nationals are allowed to leave the country (unless you're a cricket player or cricket commentator.) International arrives are only returning residents, who have to go into managed quarantine for two weeks.
It's not just because of the season change that our cases are down.
 
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lucylocket61

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Victoria has been in lockdown for 10 weeks.There's be a national lockdown. Other states have had separate lockdowns. State borders have been closed. Nationals are allowed to leave the country (unless you're a cricket player or cricket commentator.) International arrives are only returning residents, who have to go into managed quarantine for two weeks.
It's not just because of the season change that our cases are down.
I am not sure why you think you have quoted me, I didnt say that. Not my words.
 

HSSS

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A post I saw earlier (Edit : allegedly attributed to dr Fauci but also refuted as being his words - no matter who said them I think it’s well worth a read)

“Chickenpox is a virus. Lots of people have had it, and probably don't think about it much once the initial illness has passed. But it stays in your body and lives there forever, and maybe when you're older, you have debilitatingly painful outbreaks of shingles. You don't just get over this virus in a few weeks, never to have another health effect. We know this because it's been around for years, and has been studied medically for years.

Herpes is also a virus. And once someone has it, it stays in your body and lives there forever, and anytime they get a little run down or stressed-out they're going to have an outbreak. Maybe every time you have a big event coming up (school pictures, job interview, big date) you're going to get a cold sore. For the rest of your life. You don't just get over it in a few weeks. We know this because it's been around for years, and been studied medically for years.

HIV is a virus. It attacks the immune system and makes the carrier far more vulnerable to other illnesses. It has a list of symptoms and negative health impacts that goes on and on. It was decades before viable treatments were developed that allowed people to live with a reasonable quality of life. Once you have it, it lives in your body forever and there is no cure. Over time, that takes a toll on the body, putting people living with HIV at greater risk for health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, kidney disease, diabetes, bone disease, liver disease, cognitive disorders, and some types of cancer. We know this because it has been around for years, and had been studied medically for years.

Now with COVID-19, we have a novel virus that spreads rapidly and easily. The full spectrum of symptoms and health effects is only just beginning to be cataloged, much less understood.

So far the symptoms may include:
Fever
Fatigue
Coughing
Pneumonia
Chills/Trembling
Acute respiratory distress
Lung damage (potentially permanent)
Loss of taste (a neurological symptom)
Sore throat
Headaches
Difficulty breathing
Mental confusion
Diarrhea
Nausea or vomiting
Loss of appetite
Strokes have also been reported in some people who have COVID-19 (even in the relatively young)
Swollen eyes
Blood clots
Seizures
Liver damage
Kidney damage
Rash
COVID toes (weird, right?)

People testing positive for COVID-19 have been documented to be sick even after 60 days. Many people are sick for weeks, get better, and then experience a rapid and sudden flare up and get sick all over again. A man in Seattle was hospitalized for 62 days, and while well enough to be released, still has a long road of recovery ahead of him. Not to mention a $1.1 million medical bill.

Then there is MIS-C. Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children is a condition where different body parts can become inflamed, including the heart, lungs, kidneys, brain, skin, eyes, or gastrointestinal organs. Children with MIS-C may have a fever and various symptoms, including abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhea, neck pain, rash, bloodshot eyes, or feeling extra tired. While rare, it has caused deaths.

This disease has not been around for years. It has basically been 6 months. No one knows yet the long-term health effects, or how it may present itself years down the road for people who have been exposed. We literally *do not know* what we do not know.

For those in our society who suggest that people being cautious are cowards, for people who refuse to take even the simplest of precautions to protect themselves and those around them, I want to ask, without hyperbole and in all sincerity:
How dare you?

How dare you risk the lives of others so cavalierly. How dare you decide for others that they should welcome exposure as "getting it over with", when literally no one knows who will be the lucky "mild symptoms" case, and who may fall ill and die. Because while we know that some people are more susceptible to suffering a more serious case, we also know that 20 and 30-year-olds have died, marathon runners and fitness nuts have died, children and infants have died.

How dare you behave as though you know more than medical experts, when those same experts acknowledge that there is so much we don't yet know, but with what we DO know, are smart enough to be scared of how easily this is spread, and recommend baseline precautions such as:
Frequent hand-washing
Physical distancing
Reduced social/public contact or interaction
Mask wearing
Covering your cough or sneeze
Avoiding touching your face
Sanitizing frequently touched surfaces

The more things we can all do to mitigate our risk of exposure, the better off we all are, in my opinion. Not only does it flatten the curve and allow health care providers to maintain levels of service that aren't immediately and catastrophically overwhelmed; it also reduces unnecessary suffering and deaths, and buys time for the scientific community to study the virus in order to come to a more full understanding of the breadth of its impacts in both the short and long term.

I reject the notion that it's "just a virus" and we'll all get it eventually. What a careless, lazy, heartless stance.”
 
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Max68

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751
Cases in Australia are down which isn't surprising as their winter is finishing and spring is on it's way.
Yours faithfully.
Victoria has been in lockdown for 10 weeks.There's be a national lockdown. Other states have had separate lockdowns. State borders have been closed. Nationals are allowed to leave the country (unless you're a cricket player or cricket commentator.) International arrives are only returning residents, who have to go into managed quarantine for two weeks.
It's not just because of the season change that our cases are down.[/QUOTE]

Apologies, I should have known that posting something I heard on the news was not a fair portrayal of the reasons why. :banghead:
 

Max68

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@JRT Did you say that you are signed off by your GP? Mind if I ask what they have signed you off with? Hope I'm not being nosey but I'm wondering if this might be my only option at some point. I'm talking to another GP on Tuesday about getting a check up on my Vitamin D levels and they might have a different stance on the Covid situation to the last one I spoke with. I suspect it might mean measly sick pay for a maximum of 28 weeks I think, but 6 months or so will get me through till the spring!!
 

ert

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Apologies, I should have known that posting something I heard on the news was not a fair portrayal of the reasons why. :banghead:[/QUOTE]
I'm Australian. :)
 
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lucylocket61

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Apologies, I should have known that posting something I heard on the news was not a fair portrayal of the reasons why. :banghead:
I'm Australian. :)[/QUOTE]
For some reason I got an alert saying you quoted me, again.

Not sure what is happening, I suspect you quoted a quote of a quote. Either way, they are not my quotes. Neither of them.

I think you are putting quotes into the brackets wrongly.
 
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JRT

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@JRT Did you say that you are signed off by your GP? Mind if I ask what they have signed you off with? Hope I'm not being nosey but I'm wondering if this might be my only option at some point. I'm talking to another GP on Tuesday about getting a check up on my Vitamin D levels and they might have a different stance on the Covid situation to the last one I spoke with. I suspect it might mean measly sick pay for a maximum of 28 weeks I think, but 6 months or so will get me through till the spring!!
Have messaged you.
 
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Fairygodmother

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I saw those words @HSSS, they were attributed to Dr Fauci.
 

DCUKMod

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I have had two weeks back at work, there are 4 children in the vehicle and another one will be joining us tomorrow. I was sent a visor, 4 pairs of gloves and hand gel from the county council, the visor is appalling. It is flimsy, rough around the edges and it came with no protective film on the visor, or in it's own plastic bag, so where it originally came from or how many have handled it, I have no idea. A good friend of mine, who works for the railway, has given me a much more substantial visor, it came with it's own protective bag, with protective film, I have been wearing face masks.

Robin - I posted this link elsewhere on forum a while ago, but your post made me think of it again.

Whilst I don't have these shields (and I have no relationship of any kind with the company), it looked very good and sturdy on the lady I saw wearing in, and the actual visor looked to be a of decent quality, in terms of potential visual distortions etc.

At £5 for 3 shields (OK, only on headband), I also thought it great value for money.

https://lockwood-packaging-ltd.myshopify.com/
 

Max68

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751
Well my Head this evening forwarded me my risk assessment and has invited me to a meeting in the morning. Funny that after the Union emailed him Friday!!

The suggestions (reasonable adjustments are)

Control measures documented in the whole school COVID-19 policy and risk assessment document issued to all staff.

**** can arrive 8:15am and leave at 3:45pm to avoid other staff members and minimise the risk of contracting the virus.

Where possible, any meeting or training session that involves **** will be managed via Zoom or conducted outside. Where not possible, reasonable adjustments will be made to ensure **** is able to maintain social distancing in line with our COVID-19 policy. For example, a reasonable in this scenario could be sitting outside the training room, without sight and within hearing distance.


Nothing they can really do about classroom distancing obviously but I will ask if I can continue to stand outside if weather permits and if the teacher agrees supporting when asked.

I'll also see if I can haggle leaving at 3.15 therefore allowing me to access the emails and form filling from home rather than that crowded computer room.

We had 5 staff off today, two of them live together. Staff have been reminded to self isolate etc if they have symptoms "but" the school email purely lists the symptoms of Covid as -
    • A new persistent cough (coughing fits lasting more than an hour and at least three bouts of this in 24 hours)
    • A high temperature
    • A sudden change/loss of taste and/or smell.
Hardly an exhaustive list but would you believe that is all that's listed on the NHS website.!!
 
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HSSS

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356714C7-F8E1-4D10-9829-FE96A85BB5D1.jpeg
NO official counts being made but taken from media reports and school websites. Many likely missing.