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Scientists: Avoid fats, not carbs

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Yerusha, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. Yerusha

    Yerusha Type 2 · Member

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    According to scientists we should avoid fats, not carbs, if you want to lose weight... If you want to lose weight, you should cut fat from your diet instead of carbohydrates, a new study claims!!

    These foods are very bad for us so not sure about their advise!!! :(

    Writing in the Cell Metabolism journal, scientists said that cutting fat resulted in more body fat loss than cutting carbohydrates when measured by metabolic balance. Nineteen adults with obesity were put on both a diet that avoided carbohydrates and a diet that avoided fats for six days each. The researchers found that both diets led to body fat loss, though people lost more on the diet that reduced fat intake.

    After six days on each diet, the results showed that those on the diet that reduced carbohydrates had lost an average of 245g of body fat, while those on the reduced fat intake diet had lost 463g. Lead researcher Dr Kevin Hall, from the US National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Disease, said there was no metabolic reason for people to opt for a low-carb diet: "With carb reduction you do lose body fat, but not as much as when you cut out the fat."

    However, Dr Hall concluded that people should still attempt to stick to the diet they feel most comfortable with, as some individuals may lose more weight by reducing their carbohydrate intake. He told BBC News : "If it's easier to stick to one diet than another, and to ideally do it permanently, then you should choose that diet. "But if a low-fat diet is better for you, then you are not going to be at a metabolic disadvantage."

    Professor Susan Jebb, from the University of Oxford, added: "The investigators rightly conclude that the best diet for weight loss is the diet you can stick to. "All diets 'work' if you stick to an eating plan that cuts calories, whether from fat or carbohydrate, but sticking to a diet is easier said than done, especially given the prolonged time it takes to lose weight."


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  2. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    The experiment was not a diet trial per se Kevin Hall, the chief researcher explains here

    What was the purpose of your study?

    A: What I want people to understand is that this is a really basic physiology study. It’s really designed to, under very carefully controlled conditions …. find out what happens to the body metabolically when you make these large changes in diet. In other words, cutting specifically fat or specifically carbs — How does the body adapt to that? At the end of the day, is there any net difference in body fat changes when you make equal calorie cuts?

    And what we found was that indeed, if you cut carbs, insulin goes down, fat burning by the body goes up, and you lose fat. Perhaps the most surprising thing was when you cut fat from the diet, nothing happens to the number of fat calories you’re burning, nothing happens to insulin, and in fact, if you look at the difference between the fat eaten and fat burned, both diets led to fat loss, but the reduced-fat diet led to slightly more fat loss.
    http://blogs.webmd.com/breaking-news/2015/08/low-carb-diets-dont-work-the-way-we-thought.html

    This post by Stephan Guyanet also describes the trial in more detail and places it in context.
    http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.fr/2015/08/a-new-human-trial-seriously-undermines.html
    (by the way, your picture probably wouldn't be considered the best example of the type of less refined carbohydrates normally considered to be a more healthy option)
     
  3. reidpj

    reidpj · Well-Known Member

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    6 day diet? Who embarks on a 6 day weight loss diet? It take up to 3/4 weeks before the body really gets into ketosis.....
     
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  4. reidpj

    reidpj · Well-Known Member

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    From Stephan Guyanet's blog:

    " .... the difference in fat loss may depend on the fact that the composition of the low-fat diet was much more extreme than that of the low-carbohydrate diet. If both diets were equally extreme, Hall's model predicts that fat loss would have been similar"
     
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  5. reidpj

    reidpj · Well-Known Member

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    The 'comments' on Sephan Guyanet's blog post make for interesting reading....
     
  6. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    Halls answer to this criticism

    Another complaint is that the study only lasted for 6 days and therefore was not long enough for subjects to become “fat adapted”. However, it actually takes less than a week to reach a plateau in mobilizing fat from adipose tissue to provide the fuel required to support the increased fat oxidation which also reaches a plateau within 1 week. Many previous studies have observed this rapid transition to increase fat metabolism and it was also observed in our study with the RC diet. There is no evidence that fat oxidation increases after the first several days of cutting carbohydrates. However, this does not negate the fact that longer time periods, perhaps weeks, may be required to optimize exercise performance or improve general feelings of well-being on low carbohydrate diets. This is what most people mean when they say “fat adapted”, but exercise performance and cognitive function were not important for our study results.

    http://www.weightymatters.ca/2015/08/guest-post-dr-kevin-hall-asks-is.html
    (This is the post I actually wanted to link to rather than the interview above, I couldn't find it earlier)
     
  7. reidpj

    reidpj · Well-Known Member

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    ''Total energy expenditure decreased significantly in the low-carbohydrate group, but not in the low-fat group''. Could this (obviously attributable to 'Carb Flu') account for the stated difference in fat loss?

    Out of curiosity, do you know who commissioned the study?
     
  8. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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  9. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    I have tried both low carb and low fat diets. I am a T2 with insulin resistance. The 5 day high fat diet was incredible for weight loss for me. I can only say what works for me. The low fat 600 cals mostly carbs diet (7 weeks) was nowhere near as good as the high fat one.

    Details of both are here:-

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

    I did not cut calories during the fat fast, in fact I almost doubled my normal calorie intake. In short, I'm not bothered by what scientists or studies say, in my case seeing is believing, that's enough metabolic reason for me to reduce carbs and increase fat. Then there's all the extra energy and the feel good factor.

    edit: Fats are necessary for good health, carbs are not, it makes sense to cut the carbs and keep the fats.
     
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    #9 zand, Sep 13, 2015 at 11:40 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2015
  10. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    You're one of the lucky ones.
    It doesn't matter what it is, if I eat even too much fat, I'll still gain weight.
     
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  11. Oedett

    Oedett HCP · Member

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    Hi zand see Dr Jason Fung on You Tube re weight loss and fasting for reversal of type 2 diabetes he is a kidney doctor in Canada. Great information with input from his patients in some of his talks.
     
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  12. viviennem

    viviennem Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Did the study say whether any of the participants had insulin resistance? Insulin resistance stops the glucose getting into your muscle cells for energy, and instead stores it as fat - triglycerides, the worst type!

    I know it doesn't work for everyone, but low carb suits me best - and believe me, in more than 50 years of dieting I've tried 'em all! One size does not fit all, when it comes to diet. I wish the scientists would just admit it and chill a bit.

    Viv13 ;)
     
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  13. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Very true, I find exercise is the main way I improve my insulin resistance, and lose weight.
     
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  14. reidpj

    reidpj · Well-Known Member

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    Hi

    I haven't had sight of the original paper, but the following was posted by someone who obviously has:

    "One thing that jumps out is from a sample of 19 obese men and women, they seem to have zeroed in on people who are extremely healthy metabolically. These people weighed over 100kg on average, both men and women. Yet at baseline their TC was only 179 and their TG was 101. I don't know many obese people around 100kg who sport those numbers. The same with fasting CP (1.4) and fasting insulin (12.6). Again, these are extremely healthy but obese people who were primed for fat loss. But since they were already healthy, the fat loss may or may not have benefited their biomarkers significantly. Actually, if you see, their TC/HDL ratio worsens from 4.0 to about 4.2, mainly because HDL falls more than TC for both RC and RF diets.

    The results themselves with regard to biomarkers are not surprising and actually confirm prior LC studies (even though this was moderate RC). The lower TG, leptin, FI and higher CRP, cortisol. The only surprise is the ghrelin, which I would have expected to decrease more with RC than RF. But then I've also seen extreme RF drop FBG impressively.

    So given that these were obese but extremely healthy people, should they have even gone through with a dietary regimen. Most people who do RC or RF diets with similar BMI are usually prediabetics with significantly worse lipid and inflammatory markers. In such a case, RC might seem to yield better results simply because the reduction in TG/FI would be magnified and the drop in TC might even rival the drop from RF for such people."
     
  15. uart

    uart Type 1.5 · Well-Known Member

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    "Insulin goes down" is the key thing here in my opinion, and that makes the low carb diet overwhelmingly preferable for the insulin resistant and the diabetic.

    For someone with a 100% perfect metabolism on the other hand, then I'm sure the low fat diet can work just fine also. Well as long as your metabolism stays 100% healthy that is. The risk as I see it is that longer term someone on a low fat diet is not going to just reduce fats and go hypo caloric, they are going to increase carbs to compensate. So longer term there is going to be greater insulin demand and consequent greater risk of becoming insulin resistant or T2 on a low fat diet.
     
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    #15 uart, Sep 13, 2015 at 5:32 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2015
  16. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Lucky?!!! I think not. I have been trying to lose weight for 25 years! Only in the last few years have I realised that reducing carbs was the answer.
     
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  17. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Well, if I don't continually count the calories, even if it's just fat, I know where my weight is heading!
     
  18. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    I suppose the one good thing is that I've learnt to stop eating when I have had enough and only count calories nowadays to make sure I have had enough; I spent so many years cutting down that there's always the urge to not bother eating, and that's not good for the metabolism. The only calorie rule I have is that I have at least 1200 a day, no maximum, though I don't think I would ever go much above 2200 anyway.
     
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  19. SunnyExpat

    SunnyExpat Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Very low calorie, to about subsistence for me with those figures, so we're probably talking the same diet by another name. :)
     
  20. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Fat good. Carbs bad.
     
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