Sir Muir Gray grrrr

AM1874

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Hi @carol43
I sort of agree with you .. at a knee-jerk level .. but I think that his "headline-grab" that T2 is not a real disease can be considered in a number of ways ..
# an overly simplistic recognition that an unhealthy lifestyle is a key contributor to T2
# a pretty dramatic analysis and summary of what's happening in society today
# a somewhat crude attempt to open up a re-assessment and re-evaluation of the causes, prognosis and treatment of T2
Some would say that this is also ..
# a tool that he is using to sell his new book

My question is .. "Since a lot of T2s are already given information on diet and testing etc, that is, at best, debatable and at worst, useless .. and furthermore, are already stigmatised, will Muir Gray's claim actually make any difference.

I disagree with him and his claim but, for me, this is another case of listen(read), nod, smile, ignore ..
 
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walnut_face

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I wouldn't wish this on anyone, he has a point, but either he has been clumsy,or the Daily Wail has sensationalised it (as they do)
What I will accuse him of, he being someone who has held Senior positions in the NHS (according to the article) is being a part of that lifestyle problem by peddling that Fad-of-a-diet called the eatwell plate. Because of his seniority he has much to answer for.
 

bulkbiker

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I wouldn't wish this on anyone, he has a point, but either he has been clumsy,or the Daily Wail has sensationalised it (as they do)
What I will accuse him of, he being someone who has held Senior positions in the NHS (according to the article) is being a part of that lifestyle problem by peddling that Fad-of-a-diet called the eatwell plate. Because of his seniority he has much to answer for.
Well said.. I was just about to say exactly the same thing.
 

Brunneria

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I certainly feel sorry for any T2 patients unfortunate enough to fall into his grasp.

He comes over in the article as the sort of bullying, pretend-avuncular idiot that has a dismissive answer to everything, and very little understanding of the subject on which he is spouting forth.

Hopefully, he isn't like that in real life, or I pity everyone around him, as well as his patients!

How sad that this kind of attitude and opinionated bigotry is tolerated by the system, and even allowed to progress to a position where he gets interviewed on it.
 

Oldvatr

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Chook

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People who think they know everything.
Unfortunately there are many T2 who are in total denial, and ignore their condition till it bites them in the derriere, There is also the honeymoon period to get through which seems to reduce any feelings of doom, a bit like the phony war or Brexit.
I gave you a 'funny' rating not because I disagree with you (I definitely agree with you). But because your last sentence really made me smile. :)
 

slip

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What gets me is that he says it's a modern life style thing, the article goes on to say many T2s can reverse it with diet alone. No mention of what sort of diet, The NHS' eat well plate is a modern diet too...........why can't these people put 2 and 2 together?
 
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serenity648

Guest
Diabetes is thought to cost the NHS about £10billion, once the cost of treatment, including amputation and hospitalisations for life-threatening hypoglycaemic attacks, is included.

the above is a quote from the article. The vast majority of type 2's dont get life threatening hypoglycemic attacks, and this article is supposed to be only about type 2's and how much of a drain we are on the NHS, so why are they including the cost of these attacks in the cost we type 2's apparently drain the NHS of?

And what about all the slim, active type 2's? or the ones who become diabetic as a side affect of another illness? or due to taking statins? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...iabetes-according-alarming-10-year-study.html

The newspaper should read its own articles!!!

Typical media mixed up rubbish.
 

db89

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What gets me is that he says it's a modern life style thing, the article goes on to say many T2s can reverse it with diet alone. No mention of what sort of diet, The NHS' eat well plate is a modern diet too...........why can't these people put 2 and 2 together?

The cynic in me wants to say that they can but money talks louder than sense in the short term. You only have to look into the backers of the Eatwell plate to get an idea of the vested interests.
 

Oldvatr

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<.......>
Typical media mixed up rubbish.
Even the BBC is starting to treat the 'Wail as a bit of a joke. Their paper reviews section of the news is often quite scathing about their health articles. Think Sky is beginning to form same opinion, and I guess that Donald Duck (Trump?) would call it Fake News.
 

Geordie_P

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849
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Let me guess, his recommended diet to cure T2 probably recommends pasta, boiled potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal, tons of apples and bananas etc.

I actually have no dog in this fight- I did reverse my type 2 through diet, so if anyone was going to be evangelical about self-cure, it would be me, but I did it by doing the polar opposite of anything these geniuses would suggest, and I can immediately see that it's *entirely* different for different diabetics. I'd file his comments next to 'cancer isn't a real disease because it's endemic to our modern lifestyle' or 'if you'd spent more time playing Bridge, you wouldn't have got Alzheimers.' Shall we keep going? 'Aids isn't a real disease because it's all your own fault'.
He's an attention seeking clown, almost unworthy of comment.
 

MikeTurin

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The most worrying thing is that this "doctor" seems that doesn't know the latest research that for instance are saying that modern healthcare namely statines could be a cause of T2 diabetes, or that T1 and T2 seems to have a genetic correlation.

Now it's true that T2 can be controlled by getting a more healthy lifestyle, and because diabetes is not widely screened it's possible that pepole are T2 but don't know it and will not know it. This doesn't mean that T2 is a serious condition and that anyway the second leg of controlling diabetes, namely check the blood glucose, it's never mentioned.

People like this "doctor" are detrimental because blaming people for a conditions doesn't solve the problem for the single person and for the NHS balance. By the way diabetes if one hast to change its name should be called sugars and starches intolerance, and then one should ask why if one has starch intoleance should eat a lot of starchers when one has to eAt few fats anc cholesterol to don't become fat or get high cholesterol.

By the way. Metabolic Syndrome is a different thing in respect to diabetes, so ipercholesterolemy, i suppose that a "doctor" should know this.
 

walnut_face

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Even the BBC is starting to treat the 'Wail as a bit of a joke. Their paper reviews section of the news is often quite scathing about their health articles. Think Sky is beginning to form same opinion, and I guess that Donald Duck (Trump?) would call it Fake News.
I am not so sure about that BBC 2 Jeremy Vine show (another sensationalist IMO) has given it an hour of oxygen this afternoon
 

Art Of Flowers

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The article states ...

The chances of developing type 2 diabetes are greatly exacerbated by being overweight and many sufferers are able to reverse the condition by dieting alone.

The cost of treating diabetes is £10 billion a year. I think the NHS could save a lot of money if the government re-thought their stupid food guidelines which promote eating carbs and avoiding fat. This has let to an obesity and diabetes epidemic. You can't exercise your way out of a poor diet. However, with a low carb diet you can loose weigh and normalise blood sugars, thus saving the NHS money for unnecessary drugs and amputations.
 

noblehead

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The Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 were discussing this story today, it should be available on iPlayer for those who want to listen to it.
 
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serenity648

Guest
The article states ...

The chances of developing type 2 diabetes are greatly exacerbated by being overweight and many sufferers are able to reverse the condition by dieting alone.

The cost of treating diabetes is £10 billion a year. I think the NHS could save a lot of money if the government re-thought their stupid food guidelines which promote eating carbs and avoiding fat. This has let to an obesity and diabetes epidemic. You can't exercise your way out of a poor diet. However, with a low carb diet you can loose weigh and normalise blood sugars, thus saving the NHS money for unnecessary drugs and amputations.
Unfortunately low carbing and counting calories hasnt led to a significant weight loss for me, but my blood sugar levels are now normal.
 

MikeTurin

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564
Type of diabetes
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The Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 were discussing this story today, it should be available on iPlayer for those who want to listen to it.
I have listened a bit of it. I haven't time to comment now widely - but I didn't liked it very much.
 

Brunneria

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The Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 were discussing this story today, it should be available on iPlayer for those who want to listen to it.

I would rather pull my own fingernails out with red hot tweezers.
When Jeremy Vine moved to that show, and started doing game show hosting, he lost all credibility in my eyes.
 

db89

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I've listened to the segment and I can't think of much good to say. Most of it was silly bickering and creating pointless acronyms. There was only one point where one of the guests started to mention that the two types didn't quite cover everything (such as some adult onset cases) but they didn't follow it through.

I know it has to be digestible to the majority (many of whom will be casually listening) but it did nothing to try and clear up any confusion.