Something that confuses me

[candi-girl]

How come you can buy an Iphone that does SO much and is full of new technology etc for under £400 when a Pump costs £2,500 (well, mind did, are they cheaper now?) that is basically a small pump and a calculator and that's it! Why do they cost SO MUCH ??? Maybe there should be an Ipump that costs about £500.

 

[ebony321]

an ipump would be awesome!!

 

[phoenix]

Costs include research into the technology and being able to provide a product that wil pass the expensive (and necessary) safety trials that the various countries require to license medical devices.
The pump itself has to be very accurate (down to tiny amounts ) with failsafe warning systems;It could be a deadly matter if a pump suddenly delivers all it's insulin in one go.(not quite the same if your ipod doesn't work)
Much of the existing technology is patented so it is diffficult for new companies to enter the field . Smiths, the manufacturers of the now defunct Cozmo were sued by Medtronic for patent infringement. Later they decided that they could no longer continue to be profitable.
There is also a limited consumer base (compared with an ipod).
When someone does come up with a pump using newer technology (and there have been several new prototypes made by small research companies in recent years) they need also to find a new manufacturer willing to take the risk and pay the development costs. It will have to be significantly cheaper to produce to gain a large share of the market.
Otherwise we are stuck with the small number of models available (and their very similar cost).

 

[candi-girl]

Thanks for explaining.
Do they still cost £2,500 do you know?

 

[iHs]

£3000 - disgusting price. They should be going down in price not up. Grrrrrrr :lol:

 

[candi-girl]

Really? :shock: If you have funding and are due a new pump, are you still allowed one?

 

[iHs]

As far as I know, pumps that are in working condition will no longer be replaced when their warranty runs out. Most will function I think for at least 6 or 7 years and will only be renewed if the display screen starts to play up or the motor inside the pump starts to develop a fault etc.

Not sure if the above applies to Medtronic though, as someone I know who was given a brand new 722 last Autumn has been asked by Medtronic to swop the 722 for a Veo. I think they want everyone using the same pump but why, who knows??

 

[candi-girl]

The buttons don't work very well on mine. Soon they will pack up all together. :?

 

[jopar]

iHr

Where did you get that informtion from...

A lot of pumps have a programed timer on them, this prevents the pump being used after a specific period, in my case my pump has another 1200 days before I have to replace my pump. Then my pump will stop functioning...

For a PCT to insist that a pump is used passed it licenced expiery date would be ilegal... Pumps are manufacured to very strict licensed specifications, that once the licence has been granted can't be changed with out going through the licence process again as any changes to specification even that of extending the period of time in use, has to be investigated by the licencing board to ensure the safety of the end user..

I know that with my pump it has a basic 4 years of use, but is licenced for up to 7 years, but for it to be used beyond this point, it has to be returned to the manufactur to be inspected and tested etc...

I would be intereted to hear the source of information,

 

[Sid Bonkers]

If you could get an iPump, you would have to use Steve Jobbs insulin and it wouldnt be as good as everyone elses insulin but you would swear it was because your iPump would be so cool :lol:

 

[iHs]

iHr

Where did you get that informtion from...

A lot of pumps have a programed timer on them, this prevents the pump being used after a specific period, in my case my pump has another 1200 days before I have to replace my pump. Then my pump will stop functioning...

The new Spirit pumps currently supplied with the Combo do not have the so called 'death switch' on them. The Accu Chek pump rep told me as I thought that my Combo would only be ok for 4 years and then need replacing ......


For a PCT to insist that a pump is used passed it licenced expiery date would be ilegal... Pumps are manufacured to very strict licensed specifications, that once the licence has been granted can't be changed with out going through the licence process again as any changes to specification even that of extending the period of time in use, has to be investigated by the licencing board to ensure the safety of the end user..

I know that with my pump it has a basic 4 years of use, but is licenced for up to 7 years, but for it to be used beyond this point, it has to be returned to the manufactur to be inspected and tested etc...

I would be intereted to hear the source of information,

My pump dsn told me. There was a man at my clinic who had a D-tron pump and is still using it even though it's quite old. I thought it a bit weird that he wasn't using a Spirit but it's probably because my PCT will only agree to fund if they really need to. If ever I need to have another pump, then the funding application will have to start all over again by my consultant.

 

[jopar]

Sid I like your thinking :lol:

Ihr

The D-tron pump (which is the same manufactur as spirit and combi pump) The D-tron is still available, so this chaps pump may not be as old as you think, D-tron pump is the only pump that us able to take pre-filled pen cartriges, it is also water-proof...

If pump is being replaced, then the the application for funding is a formality to obtain the clearance for the purchase of the pump, as the consultant as already said you need a pump so the PCT has a legal oblication to fund and to continue to fund...


I know my pump will be replaced next year, and the only argument I invisage at present it whether I will have my legal right of choice, I choose the pump I feel most meet my needs (didn't get this it was a case of the spirit lump it or nothing)

I know that on my pump the warranty is 4 years, but Rouche can reset the pump after service/refurb and it can be used up to around 6 or 7 years, in compliance with it licence...

But at the end of the day, if a pump is still working and safe to use after it's inital warranty stage, why not continual to use it...

 

[sanssucre]

Animas 2020 costs over 5000 euros where I live (France). Thankfully the social security pays the rental charges for it. Still seems as though the companies are ripping people off!

 

[phoenix]

Sans Sucre,
That is a huge change from the middle of last year
I looked up the cost and the last official price which applied up to April 2009 was 2980,38 Euros and this was the agreed maximum any pump could be sold for.
Since then they no longer allow the purchase of a pump, (they bought mine after a 6 months trial ).
Now they pay 3.5E a day for rental so it will mount up to over 5000E over the 4 years. They aren't actually saving money by renting rather than buying!
The other costs 24.54E a site change plus 174.5E a month to the prestataire for 24 hour service haven't changed in the last 2 years.
info from ;http://www.codage.ext.cnamts.fr/codif/tips//chapitre/index_chap.php?p_ref_menu_code=534&p_site=AMELI

 

[sugar2]

Hmmm, Interesting. I have a combo...and was told that it would be replaced after 4 years. i only got it in Feb, so it will be a while yet, but I agree, if it works, then there is no need to automatically replace it. If 2 pump users get 6 years use from their pumps, then I guess it means that another person can also get a pump? I know that the maths is off, and that the consumables also cost a packet, but I would feel bad replacing a perfectly good pump, if it was depriving someone else of getting one.

I love my combo...but I have never had the opportunity to compare pumps.

 

[iHs]

Hi

I have just spoken with pump customer service at Accu Chek and the warranty for the Combo is 4 years and the Spirit - 6 years.

If my pump develops a fault within the 4 year warranty, it will either be repaired or replaced but if outside the warranty, then my HCP will then have to discuss with myself the funding of getting me another pump if I still want to carry on using one. So I don't think that pumps are automatically going to be replaced every 4 years if they are still working all ok.

Shame I know as over the next 2 or 3 years there will be the iphone remote type pump Cellnovo launched and also Medingo Solo along with the Omnipod.

 

[candi-girl]

Hope they replace mine, it's really not working well. What's a combo?

 

[jopar]

The spirit pump is programmed to so it functions are disabled at 4 years, when it's warranty runs out, it is licenced for 6 years use but to do this you have to have the timer reset by Rouche, then the remaining 2 years are not covered by warranty, as explained here http://www.accu-chekinsulinpumps.com/ds ... cle_80.htm

The Spirit pump was discontinued last year when the Combi was brought in, as yet I haven't heard whether they are going to support the Spirit pump past 2013 when the warranty of the last pumps run out, and the pump has to be reset...

The new pumps that are at present being released are maninly based around software and/or additon of CGM's abilities I think that it's only the Rouche Combi that have improved the specification of the insulin delivery... Rouche have no caught up with pumps specifications of other manufacturs had available around 6 years + ago...

A lot of improvements I've seen in recent pump releases are based around software wizards.

 

[mikeinspain]

Hey everyone

Great thread.. I've often wondered as has many others as to why the big Pharma companies can not come up with a solution similar to what we would expect from an iPod/iPhone.

I did catch this article from Samantha Katz who won a design competition a couple of years ago with her concept based upon the iPhone. The contest actually won her a role at Medtronic and a product manager for them.

The article may give you further insight towards the potential challenges involved.
http://www.diabetesmine.com/2010/08/insulin-pump-manufacter-is-complicated-but-making-iphone-strides.html

Cellnovo as I'm aware are still seeking FDA approval as they see the USA as the key market.

 

[donnellysdogs]

A lot of pumps have a programed timer on them, this prevents the pump being used after a specific period, in my case my pump has another 1200 days before I have to replace my pump. Then my pump will stop functioning...
There is information on this in the accuchek pump book, which states that LOAN PUMPS will have dates set on them and will stop working on the date set, but warnings will be given, and it states the warnings in the error log/warnings explanations....if your pump has a number of days left on it, then to me, it appears that your pump has been classifeied as a loan pump...........?????

Incidentally, how are the days listed on your pump, I just want to check that mine hasn't been classed as a loan one.