Suggested time for last food to stop liver dump

berylc

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When people who know nothing about the LCHF diet tell me I'm killing myself being on it. I was killing myself not being on it!
What should I eat and at what time to try and stop the dreaded liver dump? Don't say nuts or pork scratching as dentist says no to both
 

Indy51

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Even if you eat before bed, you are bound to have at least one (if not 2) overnight as they happen about every 5 hours or so. It's a normal bodily process.
 
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Bluetit1802

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How much do you rise during the night? Do you test at all at bedtime and also during the night if you happen to wake up?
Does your liver dump continue throughout the morning or do you drop again at some point?

So many people have tried umpteen ways and very few have succeeded.
 

Freema

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Even if you eat before bed, you are bound to have at least one (if not 2) overnight as they happen about every 5 hours or so. It's a normal bodily process.

thanks for that information now I know why my numbers raise just before I go to bed even though I haven´t been eating for 3-4 hours... this explain a lot..
 
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ickihun

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Try 5 dice cubes worth of cheese before getting into bed. Monitor before sleep then after sleep.
Please let me see your result here. No stress pls thou, counter-productive.
 

Indy51

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thanks for that information now I know why my numbers raise just before I go to bed even thought I haven´t been eting for 3-4 hours... this explain a lot..
It's all part of the homeostatic processes of the body.
 
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Freema

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It's all part of the homeostatic processes of the body.

yes you are a good teacher... when I was first in this forum I thought there was only little to learn, and now many days after many months I still learn something new I would have never have thought excisted or influenced these conditions...
 

Snapsy

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Even if you eat before bed, you are bound to have at least one (if not 2) overnight as they happen about every 5 hours or so. It's a normal bodily process.
Thanks for this @Indy51 - that would explain some quirky readings of mine sometimes - didn't know it worked like that. Forewarned is forearmed (and I'm arming myself with a mini tub of cream cheese for when I haven't eaten in 5 hours and my sugar is rising!).

:)
 
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berylc

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When people who know nothing about the LCHF diet tell me I'm killing myself being on it. I was killing myself not being on it!
How much do you rise during the night? Do you test at all at bedtime and also during the night if you happen to wake up?
Does your liver dump continue throughout the morning or do you drop again at some point?


So many people have tried umpteen ways and very few have succeeded.[/QUOTE

I test when I go to bed, just before I eat a slice of brie. I don't test during the night if I wake up as some mornings I have to get up at 5.30 for work, or the latest 6.30 on a different shift. If I test on a work day I probably wouldn't get back to sleep again easily. Going back to sleep can sometimes be a problem for me if I wake in the middle of the night. I try not to open my eyes if I wake up, if I do I'm awake for up to 3 plus hours!
 

ickihun

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My understanding is that metformin is prescribed to help halt the excessive gluconeogenesis that is part and parcel of the metabolic dysfunction of Type 2:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v510/n7506/full/nature13270.html

Fasting tends to achieve the same thing, as does LCHF, though it can take a while for the excessive production of glucose to be controlled.
Mostly done in the liver and muscles.
Tricking the liver by fasting or lchf sometimes isn't enough for such an athletic diabetic process exercised to the opposite for decades.
It can take more than one attempt to rectify and has to be on-going to catch the liver at its own game!
 

JRTwalker

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Thanks for sharing Indy51. I'm still unclear whether I am doing the right thing or not by following LCHF too aggressively and not eating a great deal.
My pattern tested yesterday / this morning is as follows:
5pm 5.7 mol/L
7pm - eat - approx 10g Carbs & 400 Cal
10pm - bed - 5.7mmol/L
3am - 6.8 mol/L
6.30am wake - 7.2 mmol/L
7.30am - 50 mins / 3 miles power walk
8.20 am - 6.9 mol/L

Is this normal? Is there anything I could be doing too aggressively or is there anything I can do to reduce morning peaks in BG? Are these readings acceptable or Normal even? Some mornings I am seeing readings up to 8.0 mmol/L.
 

Bluetit1802

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May I ask, is that all you are eating?

400 calories is very extreme and probably putting your body in starvation mode, making your liver work overtime to keep your organs going.
 

JRTwalker

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That was my evening meal Bluetit1802 which consisted of lean steak and green salad with dressing followed by a little natural yogurt. My daily calorie intake during the week is probably around 1000 cals in a day but I could be over-stating this. I am losing weight (as planned) but not as aggressively as I was - maybe 1 or 2lbs week? (and not as fast as this calorie intake would suggest?)
Not eaten yet today though.
 
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Bluetit1802

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That was my evening meal Bluetit1802 which consisted of lean steak and green salad with dressing followed by a little natural yogurt. My daily calorie intake during the week is probably around 1000 cals in a day but I could be over-stating this. I am losing weight (as planned) but not as aggressively as I was - maybe 1 or 2lbs week? (and not as fast as this calorie intake would suggest?)
Not eaten yet today though.

Phew! I'm glad to see that. Sorry, my misunderstanding.

Maybe you are being too aggressive with your calorie restriction, especially as you exercise. You could try increasing your fats/protein to kick start your metabolism. I'm not an expert on this. Maybe others have suggestions.
 
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ickihun

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Thanks for sharing Indy51. I'm still unclear whether I am doing the right thing or not by following LCHF too aggressively and not eating a great deal.
My pattern tested yesterday / this morning is as follows:
5pm 5.7 mol/L
7pm - eat - approx 10g Carbs & 400 Cal
10pm - bed - 5.7mmol/L
3am - 6.8 mol/L
6.30am wake - 7.2 mmol/L
7.30am - 50 mins / 3 miles power walk
8.20 am - 6.9 mol/L

Is this normal? Is there anything I could be doing too aggressively or is there anything I can do to reduce morning peaks in BG? Are these readings acceptable or Normal even? Some mornings I am seeing readings up to 8.0 mmol/L.
If at 10pm at 5.7mmol/l you were to have pork scratchings or cheese or nuts. A small palm full it would con your liver into thinking no fast.
Morning fbg would be lower. However if you fast on rising the liver will dump then, instead. The nack is to eat small regularly so liver does fill up on carbs to dump at later date (fast). Now metformin, for me soaks up that fast, just a little. Not enough for my protein and carb intake which converts to glucose at different rates. Metformin only has a small limitation of approx 2mmol/l benefit. Yes it can be done without metformin. However I benefit from its other benefits more. So I prefer to take metformin than not.
I try and do a block before bed and on rising. I'm currently losing weight and I'm sure my liver enzymes output will be good after the xmas carb feast well behind me.
Metformin helps lose weight because of less glucose output from mainly the liver, other organs and muscles.
If I forget to eat BANG liver glucose floods my blood.
If I get stressed BANG adrenaline increases glucose manufacture and in my blood it goes.
I don't need the natural process which when I block it doesn't have a detriment to my liver of diabetes care.
Intaking less carbs is just the start of it for me.
 

Bluetit1802

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What should I eat and at what time to try and stop the dreaded liver dump? Don't say nuts or pork scratching as dentist says no to both

This page is a good read.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046621.php

It explains the role of the pancreas beta cells and the role of the liver. I found it very interesting and informative. It explains why my own diabetes reacts as it does.