supplements Chromium & Cinnamon

[paragliderpete]

Hi All. Does anyone have any experience with the suppliments Chromium or cinnamon for reducing blood sugar levels. I'm currently trying to reduce my medication levels . I've got my hba1c, and daily readings down to normal levels , although my carb intake is down to 60g per day . Recent attempts to reduce my medication further, have proved too restrictive on carb intake and I start to lose wgt.
Many books and articles seem to suggest that the two suppliments are effective. However when I invetigate the results of any scientific analysis, they indicate that they have negligable benefit.

 

[librarising]

Hi Pete and welcome aboard !

I'm not not sure you fully explain yourself in your post.
You say you've achieved 'normal' levels, yet want to go lower.
Is that because some of the 'normalisation' of your readings is down to medication, and you want to substitute that effect with non-medical means ?

I don't get this part of your post :

Recent attempts to reduce my medication further, have proved too restrictive on carb intake and I start to lose wgt.

What does that mean ? What is the restriction you refer to ?

Re cinnamon and chromium. I believe larger doses of cinnamon are needed (up to 6gms a day IIRC) I need to refer to my notes from a book by Dr Briffa (if that's the book I recall mentioning it - it may not be !) Many studies used smaller amounts, so negligible effects were noted.
Chromium is more widely recognised as necessary for diabetics. Dr Atkins treated diabetics with 600-1000 mcg of chromium picolinate/polyniconate a day. Apparently it has other benefits, helping against obesity, heart disease, blood pressure etc.
He also warned that doctor supervision should be there when blood sugar lowering medication is taken, since the higher the chromium the lower the need for medication
The amount, he advises, should be in three doses through the day.

Geoff

 

[xyzzy]

Yep take em both. There's a big long thread about Cinnamon and other herbs that we found work rather well here.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=27056

Started taking Chromium soon after diagnosis so I'm not to sure if it does a lot of good. I found this page really helpful and take a number of the things its recommends. http://www.diabetes.co.uk/vitamins-supplements.html

You can see where I admit my full list and other members theirs here

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=28851

 

[paragliderpete]

Hi all. Sorry if i didn't explain myself very well. I'm trying to achieve the same blood suger control with reduced medication. In particular I'm trying to eliminate the use of gliclazide totally. Of secondry importance is the reduction of metformin.

looks like I failed to find the info already on the forum, although i did search and it came up with zero results.

 

[Defren]

Hi all. Sorry if i didn't explain myself very well. I'm trying to achieve the same blood suger control with reduced medication. In particular I'm trying to eliminate the use of gliclazide totally. Of secondry importance is the reduction of metformin.

looks like I failed to find the info already on the forum, although i did search and it came up with zero results.

Many of us do try a supplement approach to aiding our BG control. I would suggest a 'try and see' approach. It won't harm, but could do some good. I now also take a large regimen of minerals as well as vitamins, for me, it's a feeling of better to be safe than sorry.

 

[paragliderpete]

Hi All, many thanks for your advice. I've read the threads you lead me too. I must admit I'm a real lightwieght when compered to all your suppliments,
I'm going to try both suppliments over the next few months. both seperately and combined. I'll post my results

 

[xyzzy]

Pete with me I found the Cinnamon reduces fasting levels by around 0.5mmol. Its the only one that does anything to fasting levels and I have no idea why. Bitter Melon, Banaba and Gymnema all work quite effectively as spike control. Gymnema looks to be the most effective. It works in a number of way so it increases insulin output by making Beta cells more porous, blocks the glucose receptors in the gut thus stopping your blood taking up glucose and works as quite a powerful appetite suppressant. No one knew whether making Beta cells more porous amounts to actually stimulating the pancreas to work harder like Glic does. Bitter Melon and Banaba work just by stopping the take up of glucose. My aim was to primarily find ones that drop fasting levels rather than spike control as on a 50 - 60g low carb diet you don't get that many dangerous spikes.

 

[paragliderpete]

many thanks xyxxy. As you say on a 60g low carb, I dont have problems with spikes. I really need to stop taking the gliclizide, I take 80mg per day alongside 2000mg metformin sr. I don't like Gliclizide because of the way it works, and it causes me grief with my pilots medicals. They don't like Gliclizide because of the potential hypo's. Problem is most of the other drugs apart from metformin carry the same risk.
it and might be worth trying to lower my carb intake further. Unfortunately attempts in the past have always proved too restrictive for me to maintain. and have failed.
I'll certainly take note of your ideas and work my way through the options to see which work best for me.

 

[xyzzy]

Have you ever talked to your gp about Januvia (Sitagliptin) or Galvus (Vildagliptin). Both are far more modern diabetic drugs that work using some neat enzyme tricks. Effectively you can view them as turbo charged Metformin. Not sure if they would be suitable but they aren't insulin stimulating so might be better pilot license wise. Talk to your doc.

 

[paragliderpete]

I've been concentrating on getting rid of the glic. I've managed to reduce it from 240mg to the 80mg i'm taking at the moment. My bm's seem to indicate I can reduce or eliminate it . The last few days all in the 4's now I'm getting 3's. Never had a 3 in the morning , always my worst time of day. Getting a bit close to hypo territory.
The probelem has always been the same. I have to start increasing my carbs to maintain bm's, which again makes me think I can reduce the glic. However when I drop my carbs to normal !!! 60g a day, and reduce the glic to a 40mg dose, my bm's start to rise after approx 4 weeks, to where I'm getting morning at late evening reading of around 7.5 to 8.
That's why I think a suppliment my just help me over the final hurdle of stopping the glic altogether.
I must admit that I've had had similar problems every time I reduced my glic dose in the passed, and It's always taken between 6 to 9 months to make the reductions stable i.e bm's stable between 4 and 6.8 which is the upper limit I set myself.
It does make me think that my condition is slowly improving, but I'd take a lot of convincing that's the case.
Not sure about my pilots medical with the other drugs. the only one the don't insist on adjudication by an aviation doctor is metformin. You think we have problems with our gp's . you want to try these doctors. must remember to be polite online.

 

[xyzzy]

See your problem!

I was thinking it might be some DP effect that starts up again after you drop the Glic but you wouldn't then expect to see the rise in the evening. I have been largely unsuccessfully in finding anything that reduces fasting levels myself. Like I said Cinnamon looks to work a bit but be careful you don't take too much (see the other thread). If you wanted to replicate the Glic action the closest then Gymnema would be my bet. Loads of places sell it. I got mine off eBay.

 

[paragliderpete]

Thanks xyzzy. I'm on holiday tonight till next weekend. so won't be online till I get back. I'll keep you posted with my progress

 

[paragliderpete]

Hi All. Back off hols and back into the grind. Not started the cinnamon yet , although my partner has started the chromium picolate, currently at 400ug per day. more of this in a moment.

Unfortunately just before going on hol, i'd read abouta book about nutrition for diabetics, and in particular the need for fiber suppliments for people on low carb diets. so purchased a tub of soluble fiber, called "Benefiber", and both of us used it from the start of the hols.My partner is also type 2, but controls by diet only.

Both of us started to lose control of our blood sugars within 48hrs, and initially assumed it was due to us being away from home.

For the past 12 months, we've had nearly normal blood sugers. but know we were getting readings up into the mid eights after meals and taking the fiber. I also found that my lowest readings had jumped up to the mid to high 5's, before I would normally have at least 5 hours per day in the mid to low 4's.

It's taken nearly 3 weeks for the penny to drop, and link it to the fiber . We both stopped taking it 3 days ago, and almost immediately our blood sugars are starting to return to our previous norms.
Has anyone else had any similar experience with taking fiber. Looking at Bernstiens bible. He clearly is of the opinion the fiber is not reuired or essential ???.
Would be interested to hear others views on the matter.
With regards to the Chromium. I can't tell at the moment if it is having any affect because of the problems above

 

[SouthernGeneral6512]

Hi Pete and welcome aboard !

I'm not not sure you fully explain yourself in your post.
You say you've achieved 'normal' levels, yet want to go lower.
Is that because some of the 'normalisation' of your readings is down to medication, and you want to substitute that effect with non-medical means ?

I don't get this part of your post :

Recent attempts to reduce my medication further, have proved too restrictive on carb intake and I start to lose wgt.

What does that mean ? What is the restriction you refer to ?

Re cinnamon and chromium. I believe larger doses of cinnamon are needed (up to 6gms a day IIRC) I need to refer to my notes from a book by Dr Briffa (if that's the book I recall mentioning it - it may not be !) Many studies used smaller amounts, so negligible effects were noted.
Chromium is more widely recognised as necessary for diabetics. Dr Atkins treated diabetics with 600-1000 mcg of chromium picolinate/polyniconate a day. Apparently it has other benefits, helping against obesity, heart disease, blood pressure etc.
He also warned that doctor supervision should be there when blood sugar lowering medication is taken, since the higher the chromium the lower the need for medication
The amount, he advises, should be in three doses through the day.

Geoff

If this is true then why isn't my doctor telling me this ... is it just they are so wedded to the pharmaceutical industry that they have the blinkers on?

 

[paragliderpete]

Hi Southerngeneral. Sound like youhad the same medical advice as the rest of us i.e poor to diabolical. I am very biased towards Dr Richard Bernstiens advice in his book diabetes solutions. Mainly because I have yet to find any of his advice to be false. This cannot be said of many other diabetic publications. or for that fact advice from the diabetic nurse or GP as well.

 

[xyzzy]

Hi Pete and welcome aboard !

I'm not not sure you fully explain yourself in your post.
You say you've achieved 'normal' levels, yet want to go lower.
Is that because some of the 'normalisation' of your readings is down to medication, and you want to substitute that effect with non-medical means ?

I don't get this part of your post :

Recent attempts to reduce my medication further, have proved too restrictive on carb intake and I start to lose wgt.

What does that mean ? What is the restriction you refer to ?

Re cinnamon and chromium. I believe larger doses of cinnamon are needed (up to 6gms a day IIRC) I need to refer to my notes from a book by Dr Briffa (if that's the book I recall mentioning it - it may not be !) Many studies used smaller amounts, so negligible effects were noted.
Chromium is more widely recognised as necessary for diabetics. Dr Atkins treated diabetics with 600-1000 mcg of chromium picolinate/polyniconate a day. Apparently it has other benefits, helping against obesity, heart disease, blood pressure etc.
He also warned that doctor supervision should be there when blood sugar lowering medication is taken, since the higher the chromium the lower the need for medication
The amount, he advises, should be in three doses through the day.

Geoff

If this is true then why isn't my doctor telling me this ... is it just they are so wedded to the pharmaceutical industry that they have the blinkers on?

Geoff, Southern General

You need to be a bit careful about the amount of Cinnamon you take especially if its the Cassia variety as it contains stuff called courmin and it has some side effects if you exceed the RDA. Google about it cos I can't trace where I found how to do the RDA calculation. Anyway here's what I wrote a while back on my "herbs" thread.

Just worked out on my weight of 88kg that if the Cassia Cinnamon I have has the maximum courmin courmin content research suggests I could be taking up to 60% of the tolerated safe daily dose by taking my normal 1.5 grams / day. On the minimum courmin content research suggests that would fall to around 30% of the safe tolerated dose.

The research I found on Cinnamon seemed to suggest taking between 1 and 3 grams per day so I take 1.5g. I reckon it lowers my fasting levels by around 0.5mmol/l but would be more effective if your levels were higher if the research is correct. It is the only natural one that I've found does reduce fasting levels rather than just being good at dealing with spikes.